Best "alignment" for a Pure-Praetorian?

[Lazarillo]

So I've never done much with First Ward...only completed it once, back in the old days, and only even started it once on HC...and I've never even started Night Ward at all.  I've been thinking I should do that one of these days, so I'm wanting to try it as a Praetorian-starting character and just go straight from Neutropolis to the Wards.  However, I need a little more help deciding what kind of the four possible starting Praetorian arcs would fit best.  Warden seems right out, since from what I've heard, Katie Douglas doesn't remember you, and thus gives you her constant hate and put-downs, which kinda kills the cohesion of the story for me.  From what I recall, Crusader wouldn't be much better because they're enemies in the early part of First Ward and again, there's not any real acknowledgment of fighting your old allies.

 

That leaves one of the two Loyalist options, but I don't know enough about the Wards and their arcs to know whether either of them would have similar "troubles".  I could see a Responsibility Loyalist fitting in for the "protect people" side of things (particularly if they swapped to Resistance in the last moral choice), or a Power Loyalist doing a sort of "deep cover" assignment, but I'm not sure if either of those would create problems?  Anyone more familiar with the stories can offer advice?

[ZekeStenzland]

My recollection is that the main arcs work the same for everyone. The only difference is that there are some contacts who give repeatable missions but no arcs that are alignment specific.

 

Lorewise, everyone in first ward and night ward is mostly exiled from Praetoria, so what you did “back there” is mostly irrelevant in these zones. 

Katie Douglas and Noble Savage are the only contacts I can think of that you meet in First Ward that you might have encountered in Praetoria. 

[ZekeStenzland]

Also remember the timeline. FW/NW occur after  Dark Astoria arcs and some iTrials, as I understand it. There was a forum post recently about the chronology of Praetorian content. 
 

So it’s not like you just rescued Katie yesterday and she’s already forgotten you. Even if it was just yesterday for you. 

[Lazarillo]

2 minutes ago, ZekeStenzland said:

Also remember the timeline. FW/NW occur after  Dark Astoria arcs and some iTrials, as I understand it. There was a forum post recently about the chronology of Praetorian content. 

First Ward definitely wouldn't, since Diabolique and Vanessa DeVore are both involved in those stories, and the former survives (as much as someone who was already dead can, anyway) all the way to the penultimate iTrial.  Not sure about Night Ward since I haven't played that, though.  Are you sure that's not just the Belladonna arc (which occurs in Night Ward, but is not part of the other arcs per se)?

 

I guess it could be the same shambles of "continuity" that puts the iTrials before the death of Statesman, but after Mender Ramiel's and Maria Jenkins' arcs, which are after the death of Statesman.

 

And even then, I'd expect Katie to be a little less of a jerk to the person who was her biggest ally ever.  It's enough to ruin my own immersion at least; I dunno, maybe I'm too picky, but I'm just looking for a way to enjoy it that won't bring me out of it.  Since, as you noted, the story treats one's previous allegiances as irrelevant, I'm just looking for which character wouldn't have actually done anything that could be relevant, so that there isn't such a potential for those kind of breaks in immersion.  If that makes sense.

[MTeague]

Warden or Responsibility seem most fitting.  Not least because it even explains why they stayed in the wards.  People were suffering and they want to continue to protect them. 

 

A Power Loyalist would have said "Brave New World", and gone Villain and not looked back, most likely.  Maybe started Blue but I can only see a Power Loyalist ending up Red.

A Crusader Resistance is probably also going to go Red or Blue to find allies or big shiny explody weapons to bring back to use against Cole.  I'd see them writing off the First/Night wards as a lost cause.

[Chris24601]

Not only a lost cause, but the Crusader faction considers some of the First Warders to be traitors for not wanting to die in Calvin Scott’s insane cause.

 

I also chalk up some of Katie’s memory problems to the statement early in the First Ward arcs that staying there too long makes you forget the good things of your life and makes you a little crazy... and Katie’s home is much closer the epicenter than the guy who tells you that.

 

Also, if you wait for Night Ward to be done before using Sheridan’s portal (and choose hero) then Katie is back in uniform with other seers she’s freed and still there to send you off to Primal Earth... which puts a much happier ending to the whole thing.

 

So, for my money, I say Resistance Warden is your best bet, particularly if you decide to go Blue-side afterwards as both Katie and Noble Savage are there to send you off. The fact that the New Praetorians arc you can run right after that lets you see a bunch of familiar First Ward faces* including Grant Creston and Pendragon as teammates.

 

* I know the after mission text says everyone survives the UPA attack, but it’d be really nice to get a follow up mission or some of the notable First Ward NPCs standing around Brickstown via phasing tech like the New Praetorians do to actually SEE it.

[Aberrant]

3 hours ago, Lazarillo said:

First Ward definitely wouldn't, since Diabolique and Vanessa DeVore are both involved in those stories, and the former survives (as much as someone who was already dead can, anyway) all the way to the penultimate iTrial.  Not sure about Night Ward since I haven't played that, though.  Are you sure that's not just the Belladonna arc (which occurs in Night Ward, but is not part of the other arcs per se)?

Most stuff doesn't affect Night Ward, it's more an epilogue to First Ward than anything, but the timeline of events is:

1) First Ward

2) Underground Trial (follows from First Ward)

3) TPN Campus Trial (follows from Underground Trial)

4) Minds of Mayhem Trial (affects Night Ward in a small way)

5) New Dark Astoria arcs (follows from First Ward, I don't think it affects Night Ward? I can't remember everything!)

6) Dilemma Diabolique Trial (Doesn't affect Night Ward)

7) Night Ward (follows from First Ward)

 

So yeah, I think the only things that directly affect Night Ward's plot is First Ward (obviously) and Minds of Mayhem (very minor).

Edited May 8, 2020 by Aberrant

[Major_Decoy]

5 hours ago, Lazarillo said:

That leaves one of the two Loyalist options, but I don't know enough about the Wards and their arcs to know whether either of them would have similar "troubles".  I could see a Responsibility Loyalist fitting in for the "protect people" side of things (particularly if they swapped to Resistance in the last moral choice), or a Power Loyalist doing a sort of "deep cover" assignment, but I'm not sure if either of those would create problems?  Anyone more familiar with the stories can offer advice?

I did Loyalist Responsibility who ran missions for Bobcat and Neuron too (just an accident, but it worked out well for the character). They ended up helping Kang at the end of the arc and finished Praetoria as resistance, but just so sick of everything and everyone that they just ran off to the first ward rather than do anything that either side was asking of them.

[Redlynne]

6 hours ago, Lazarillo said:

so I'm wanting to try it as a Praetorian-starting character and just go straight from Neutropolis to the Wards.  However, I need a little more help deciding what kind of the four possible starting Praetorian arcs would fit best.

First Ward and Night Ward are alignment agnostic.

Hero.  Villain.  Resistance.  Loyalist.  None of that matters in First Ward or Night Ward.

 

Beyond that, you're basically wrestling with headcanon ... and at that point, you're kind of on your own as to whether Resistance/Loyalist (and which "flavor" of each) best leads into/fits with the storyline(s) of First Ward and Night Ward.

 

So ... whatever makes you happy to play ...?

[Lazarillo]

1 minute ago, Redlynne said:

First Ward and Night Ward are alignment agnostic.

Hero.  Villain.  Resistance.  Loyalist.  None of that matters in First Ward or Night Ward.

They might be, but they're not alignment story agnostic, as previously noted with Katie Douglas.  What I'm looking to do is avoid other such...glitches in the storytelling.

[Redlynne]

4 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

What I'm looking to do is avoid other such...glitches in the storytelling.

 

The storytelling in City of Heroes ... well ... let's just say it's not Shakespeare ... or all that internally consistent if you know what I mean ...

[Lazarillo]

2 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

The storytelling in City of Heroes ... well ... let's just say it's not Shakespeare ... or all that internally consistent if you know what I mean ...

But if it can be made better by avoiding particularly flagrant things, why not take advantage of that?

And in fairness, it was totally internally consistent for most of the game's life.  It was only in the last couple of issues where they just kinda started not caring.

[Redlynne]

39 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

It was only in the last couple of issues where they Dr. Aeon just kinda started not caring.

Fixed that for you.

[Major_Decoy]

Having internally consistent writing is out of genre for comic book themed entertainment. All comics have at least one issue you pretend didn't happen.

[Redlynne]

3 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said:

Having internally consistent writing is out of genre for comic book themed entertainment. All comics have at least one issue you pretend didn't happen.

Case in point ... very nearly all of Doctor Who fandom wanting to believe that the entire Chris Chibnal train wreck by definition CANNOT be considered canon.

 

[Gulbasaur]

5 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

Having internally consistent writing is out of genre for comic book themed entertainment. All comics have at least one issue you pretend didn't happen.

As a DC fan, I enjoyed the fact that they basically wrote an entire continuity out of existence in universe because it wasn't working out. Sometimes it's canon, sometimes it's something that happened on an alternate timeline, sometimes it just didn't happen at all. A good chunk of The Flash is spend dealing with the fallout.

[Grouchybeast]

12 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Case in point ... very nearly all of Doctor Who fandom wanting to believe that the entire Chris Chibnal train wreck by definition CANNOT be considered canon.

 

This is Who fandom in a nutshell.  Whoever is currently in charge of the franchise is destroying it, burning it to the ground, salting the earth behind them, everything is awful, flee to the hills the end times are upon us.  It's amazing it's lasted so long considering how many times it's been destroyed.

 

The only good time to be a Who producer is when the current one is leaving (rejoice! rejoice!) and you've just been announced as their successor.  Then, for a brief moment, you are the sainted saviour Who will lead us from the wilderness.