Super Atom Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, HelBlaiz said: Who is spreading misinformation? Look at you trying to get a GM to bark at me! Not you, at the very least you just want to balance it one step a time and while people already know what changing it will fix and what it won't i can appreciate the willingness to advance past revert if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troo Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said: Stygia says, "wut?" Ha! brrrrrrr. I thought there was a time you'd cut someone before letting them touch the precious. (figuratively of course) "Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown (Wise words Unknown!) Si vis pacem, para bellum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandX Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 19 minutes ago, Super Atom said: What a ridiculous sentiment. You're just assuming bad things about people to dismiss their points of view because you don't care. Thankfully the under performance evidence isn't in your favor. Seeing as how Spines is the top Brute Primary in terms of players choosing it, and lots of suggestions on how to improve EM seems to be, "Give it more AOE because that's what I consider to be the point of the game" I don't think it's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Z Bubba Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Troo said: Ha! brrrrrrr. I thought there was a time you'd cut someone before letting them touch the precious. (figuratively of course) Probably was but I sure was a happy camper after Castle and BAB did their rework. Nowadays, I'd rather have balance because it often leads to good things for the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Z Bubba Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, BrandX said: Seeing as how Spines is the top Brute Primary in terms of players choosing it, and lots of suggestions on how to improve EM seems to be, "Give it more AOE because that's what I consider to be the point of the game" I don't think it's ridiculous. How many of those spines users couple it with fire or rad armor and spend all their time in AE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Atom Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, BrandX said: Seeing as how Spines is the top Brute Primary in terms of players choosing it, and lots of suggestions on how to improve EM seems to be, "Give it more AOE because that's what I consider to be the point of the game" I don't think it's ridiculous. I don't think anyone has mentioned it being good for farming and even if you give whiriling hands the 18% damage suggested by the guy above, it wouldn't be good for farming. Thats why it's a ridiculous sentiment. I don't even like farming, I like to do the DA arcs on +4/x8 (with friends) and TF's, gets me more than enough for any alt i make. Edited September 22, 2020 by Super Atom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandX Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Super Atom said: I don't think anyone has mentioned it being good for farming and even if you give whiriling hands the 18% damage suggested by the guy above, it wouldn't be good for farming. Thats why it's a ridiculous sentiment. I don't even like farming, I like to do the DA arcs on +4/x8 (with friends) and TF's, gets me more than enough for any alt i make. I don't recall mentioning the 18% increase in damage specifically. My comment is on those trying to give EM more AOE. If I feel EM should be ST king and focused, I'm not going to want to see it become more AOE focused, to take away from it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandX Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said: How many of those spines users couple it with fire or rad armor and spend all their time in AE? How many would try to do it with EM, if it got multiple powers turned into AOEs. Splash damage to TF. Turn Stun into an AOE. A bigger more awesome Whirling Hands. Though Titan Weapons and Electric Melee are top five picks as well, as is Super Strength (FS, combine it with FA), can't speak on Radiation Melee, as I don't know it's AOE potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Atom Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, BrandX said: I don't recall mentioning the 18% increase in damage specifically. My comment is on those trying to give EM more AOE. If I feel EM should be ST king and focused, I'm not going to want to see it become more AOE focused, to take away from it. You've said multiple times you don't want any aoe increase because you don't care about aoe but ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Z Bubba Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, BrandX said: How many would try to do it with EM, if it got multiple powers turned into AOEs. Splash damage to TF. Turn Stun into an AOE. A bigger more awesome Whirling Hands. Though Titan Weapons and Electric Melee are top five picks as well, as is Super Strength (FS, combine it with FA), can't speak on Radiation Melee, as I don't know it's AOE potential. I would. But I'd also be one of those arguing against those changes. I'll try anything. Doesn't mean it's a good idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandX Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said: I would. But I'd also be one of those arguing against those changes. I'll try anything. Doesn't mean it's a good idea. That was my point though. I get the feeling, those arguing for adding in those extra AOEs, want to be able to farm with EM. I'd even say, the other AOE sets get love for farming because people may be going, "Spines? Meh!" 😛 I won't lie and say those suggestions don't sound awesome, but I do feel that would take away from other aspects of EM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelBlaiz Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 @Super Atom with all due respect, if the only thing keeping you from being barked at was the lack of a named target, the you probably shouldn't have made the accusation in the first place. If memory serves (and I'm not confusing different threads) the statements made about Energy Melee include: It is currently Not Good It was once Pretty Good It was a Single Target focused set Single Target focused sets aren't favored as high as AoE focused sets Its level of performance in its Pretty Good days might not be all that amazing in the modern day It is a simple, straight forward set with little interplay in its abilities New sets have interplay built into their abilities Another set with some overlapping powers got a buff that included power interplay Its secondary effect of Stun is less impactful due to its Single Target focus I think those are the gist of any listed facts about the set so far. Did I miss anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandX Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 25 minutes ago, Super Atom said: You've said multiple times you don't want any aoe increase because you don't care about aoe but ok I don't want to see TF and Stun become AOE powers, if it's going to take away from the ST aspect. 18% increase in damage to WH isn't exactly an OMG, the set is so AOE. 18% You probably wouldn't even notice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Atom Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, BrandX said: I don't want to see TF and Stun become AOE powers, if it's going to take away from the ST aspect. 18% increase in damage to WH isn't exactly an OMG, the set is so AOE. 18% You probably wouldn't even notice it. Then we agree! 😄 16 minutes ago, HelBlaiz said: @Super Atom with all due respect, if the only thing keeping you from being barked at was the lack of a named target, the you probably shouldn't have made the accusation in the first place. If memory serves (and I'm not confusing different threads) the statements made about Energy Melee include: It is currently Not Good It was once Pretty Good It was a Single Target focused set Single Target focused sets aren't favored as high as AoE focused sets Its level of performance in its Pretty Good days might not be all that amazing in the modern day It is a simple, straight forward set with little interplay in its abilities New sets have interplay built into their abilities Another set with some overlapping powers got a buff that included power interplay Its secondary effect of Stun is less impactful due to its Single Target focus I think those are the gist of any listed facts about the set so far. Did I miss anything? The misinformation is mostly about how mechanics do or do not work and how they would/wouldn't change a set and yes obviously directly attacking someone/s would get you barked at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelBlaiz Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 I filed the effects of build/spend, db combos, etc under 'opinion' so I dont think calling it misinformation is fair. I do agree with the sentiment that power interplay mechanics are superfluous and shouldn't be put in unless deemed absolutely necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Atom Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, HelBlaiz said: I filed the effects of build/spend, db combos, etc under 'opinion' so I dont think calling it misinformation is fair. I do agree with the sentiment that power interplay mechanics are superfluous and shouldn't be put in unless deemed absolutely necessary. Thats what i mean by misinformation though, it was implied that multiple sets mechanics do things they do not and that the purposed mechanic would do things it would not and even after it was explained, it was continued to be spread they would do those things. That is misinformation and there is nothing else to call it. It's ok not to like it, it's an opinion on flavor and everyone is allowed theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidge Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 14 minutes ago, Super Atom said: Thats what i mean by misinformation though, it was implied that multiple sets mechanics do things they do not... Receipts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Atom Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, tidge said: Receipts? That would be attacking people, you're welcome to go back through the thread and make your own judgements on if this occurred or not. If you feel it hasn't and I'm wrong, then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidge Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 If there is actual misinformation, you could quote it. If it's one of my posts, I can always go back and correct the misinformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troo Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) Trading one aspect of the set for another seems to be a sticking point. Choices are a big part of COX. If we take Maneuvers and Weave there may not be room for Hasten. If we cap defensive we may not be able to get recharge where I want or have extra slots for procs. If we take all of Dark armours toggles.. we are gonna have endurance issues to deal with. Many (myself included) like the simple, single target, hard hitting nature of Energy Melee. This is why we play it. We don't expect it to compete with AoE proc monsters. That's a choice. If there is no trade off, really there's not problem. (other than potential power creep) If you are giving me the old Energy Transfer and goosing Whirlwind and/or Stun that's awesome, let's do it. But that's not what we are hearing. Bringing up the term 'balance' and Energy Melee is a bit disingenuous. It's a strawman argument to support a preferred re-work. There is only upside, it can't really go down without malice. Not all sets have to be even. Some folks actually like playing sets that are perceived to be less than. Not all sets have to be reskinned versions of the same equation. It's okay to have some variety & outliers. Titan Weapons numbers are great, I'm still not playing it. That choice does not effect my 'fun'. Edited September 22, 2020 by Troo 3 "Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown (Wise words Unknown!) Si vis pacem, para bellum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidge Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, Troo said: Trading one aspect of the set for another seems to be a sticking point. Choices are a big part of COX. If we take Maneuvers and Weave there may not be room for Hasten. I think you misspelled "Group Fly". Come to think of it: if Stun was replaced with Group Fly, I don't think I'd ever skip it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Atom Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 On 9/20/2020 at 10:49 PM, Infinitum said: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Super Atom said: Yep 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troo Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) A change is coming. If it's already complete in the works, we'll get to test it and provide feedback. That does not make the thoughts shared in this thread less relevant. There may be some foreshadowing sprinkled in this thread, you be the judge. Edited September 23, 2020 by Troo oops lost focus for a sec "Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown (Wise words Unknown!) Si vis pacem, para bellum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 49 minutes ago, Troo said: A change is coming Don't make me link a Sheryl Crowe song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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