What Secondary works Best with Ninja Blade?

[11Troy11]

What's the most best secondary for Ninja Blade (and why)?

 

(My initial budget will be 150-200 mil)

[Machariel]

My vote would be Radiation Armor.  Here's why:

 

Ninja Blade is a pretty middle-of-the road set for ST damage and below-average AoE (while definitely not the worst the ones below it are things like Dark Melee and Energy Melee - real stinkers).    Its advantages are that you can spike your melee/lethal defense as high as you want on demand and that its attacks can take some good damage procs (-def & knockback = achilles heel -res, touch of lady grey +neg energy, force feedback).

 

Radiation Armor is a resist based set with some very strong clickies to keep you going.  Usually the resists and heals are sturdy enough on their own but if you get into trouble then you can lean on Divine Avalanche to buy time until the next Radiation Therapy or Particle Shielding.  Rad Therapy and Ground Zero can both do tons of AoE damage if you stuff them with damage procs.  Maybe Force Feedback in Soaring Dragon and Golden Dragonfly.

 

I think this build idea is favorable to a budget build since you can frankenslot a lot of your attacks and don't need to chase defensive bonus sets as much.

[11Troy11]

1 hour ago, Machariel said:

My vote would be Radiation Armor.  Here's why:

 

Ninja Blade is a pretty middle-of-the road set for ST damage and below-average AoE (while definitely not the worst the ones below it are things like Dark Melee and Energy Melee - real stinkers).    Its advantages are that you can spike your melee/lethal defense as high as you want on demand and that its attacks can take some good damage procs (-def & knockback = achilles heel -res, touch of lady grey +neg energy, force feedback).

 

Radiation Armor is a resist based set with some very strong clickies to keep you going.  Usually the resists and heals are sturdy enough on their own but if you get into trouble then you can lean on Divine Avalanche to buy time until the next Radiation Therapy or Particle Shielding.  Rad Therapy and Ground Zero can both do tons of AoE damage if you stuff them with damage procs.  Maybe Force Feedback in Soaring Dragon and Golden Dragonfly.

 

I think this build idea is favorable to a budget build since you can frankenslot a lot of your attacks and don't need to chase defensive bonus sets as much.

Thanks for such a detailed answer. The first part of your answer left me with another question: How do the various stalker primaries rank in terms of damage?

[Machariel]

Maybe it's just late and I'm tired but I found a general answer surprisingly hard to come up with.  IMO the majority of the Stalker primaries are pretty well balanced.  A few high points among them:

 

Street Justice - guaranteed Crushing Uppercut critical hits are pretty sweet

Ice Melee - ditto freezing touch

Savage Melee - ditto Hemorrhage Rending Flurry & Savage Leap

Dual Blades - given a specific attack chain and lots of global recharge

 

and a few low points:

Broad Sword - slow assassin's strike

Fire Melee - ditto

Ninja Blade - sadly, ditto

Spines - generally weak & no good attack to follow AS with

 

The rest I would put broadly in the middle ground.  Most of them are pretty good and they all have a few quirky pros and cons.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Machariel
i was misinformed about Hemo!

[Croax]

I did make an example build for a low budget build for Nin/Nin in my guide. I think you could look there for a generell idea how to make a viable build with that power combination. I think a lot of that build can be transfered to a /Super Reflex Stalker. So looking at you budget and high perfamnce viability i would suggest /Nin or /SR because they are cheap to build. And i think that generell speaking ALL Secondaries are viable.

[Riverdusk]

4 hours ago, Machariel said:

My vote would be Radiation Armor.  Here's why:

 

Ninja Blade is a pretty middle-of-the road set for ST damage and below-average AoE (while definitely not the worst the ones below it are things like Dark Melee and Energy Melee - real stinkers).   

Have to take dispute with this being a DM stalker.  With the buff to shadow maul, DM's aoe is not much different than ninja blade/broadsword now, they both have one wide cone.  Only real advantage is golden dragonfly's absolutely tiny cone, which in my experience isn't something you can ever count on.  Could even argue that shadow maul is better than NB or BS's one wide cone as shadow maul is harder hitting and a longer recharge, so it crits harder and is more procable.  Shadow maul also has a 10 target cap instead of only 5.

 

Energy melee and martial arts are the only "real stinkers" now, as they have exactly zero aoe.  That's what I put on the level as "stinker".

Edited June 2, 2020 by Riverdusk

[Chelsea Rorec]

I would say anything defence because you do not want to be knocked out of hide when the stalkers guile chance for hide fires.

So something like SR or Ninjitsu are good.

Resistance set don't do very well due to the lower stalker HP and the no defence thing, being knocked out of hide is a bummber when you want that crit.

 

points i would like to touch on -

Broadswords assassin strike animation time is the same as all the other sets.

My ninja blade stalker has no problem one shotting people.

The fast animation of nin makes up for the slightly low dmg.

 

Typically most Ninja blade builds lean on divine avalanche for the melee def while you stack ranged def from sets which means you can stack the damage bonuses and sometimes S/L resists and even recharge bonuses.

My build has 58% ranged def and uses divine for the melee def.

 

The general consensus on live was defence sets are better for stalkers and something i strongly believe in.

Crits are life and you can't crit when not in hide 😛

[Without_Pause]

13 hours ago, Machariel said:

Maybe it's just late and I'm tired but I found a general answer surprisingly hard to come up with.  IMO the majority of the Stalker primaries are pretty well balanced.  A few high points among them:

Partly interesting about the list is how do you define damage as some lean more ST vs. AoE or vice versa. Elec might be middle ground, but it is incredibly popular for a reason. My generic rule is if AS replaces a ST attack, it is good for stalkers. Also, damage types are important. Dark gains the benefit of being the least resisted damage in the game.

 

Losses AoE in exchange for AS:

BS drops Whirling Sword.

Claws drops Spin, which is a straight up crime.

DB drops Typhoon's Edge which is a finishing move for two combos. Said finishing moves are moved elsewhere for DB.

Energy drops Whirling Hands leaving the set with no AoE and has long animation times for its heavy hitters. Wee.

Nin drops The Lotus. No really. 😛 

Kin drops Repulsing Torrent which is odd as one would think Stalkers would be the ones wanting to KB things away versus brutes.

MA see Energy but Dragon's Tail and with better animations times and they are cooler looking anyway.

Psionic drops Psi Blade Sweep.

Rad drops Irradiated Ground. (pours one out)

Spines drops Quills although gains AS which helps its anemic ST attack chain so not a terrible loss.

Staff drops Innocuous Strikes.

 

Gains AS with minimal loss if not straight benefit:

Dark dumps Dark Consumption although not really a straight win, but End can be managed well enough in the end, so yeah.

Elec dumps Lightning Clap, which is pure win. LR is a pet and thus doesn't break Hide.

Fire dumps Incinerate. The advantage here is burst damage.

Ice dumps Greater Ice Sword.

Savage dumps Vicious Slash. Also switched Blood Thirst for BU which people generally consider a win due to Stalkers burst damage nature.

Street Justice dumps Rib Cracker.

 

I would say this isn't a bad versus good list but as a general guideline as I think some in the AoE loss list can still be good as a Stalker. Kin, Rad, and Spines feel a bit better off in the loss column. BS hits like a truck from Hide. Even the so called bad ones I could easily see playing but on other ATs as I already have a level 50 Claws, level 42 and 39 Rads, and a level 29 Staff. Oddly enough I've played more sets from the bad lists than I have from the good list across all ATs and that's with adding in a recent Savage Stalker.

 

I don't have much experience with Stalker secondaries, but /ea is really good although I do see where /rad's ability to generate more AoE damage would be a good thing. /bio would also increase overall damage. Sadly /shield isn't an option as that's a quick fix for lack of AoE and damage in general.

 

Edit: One thing to note as showing how a "bad" set could be good. As mentioned before BS hits hard as hell from Hide. With ATO procs refreshing BU and flipping Hide back on, that burst damage will happen all the more often.

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Without_Pause

[Machariel]

13 hours ago, Riverdusk said:

Have to take dispute with this being a DM stalker.  With the buff to shadow maul, DM's aoe is not much different than ninja blade/broadsword now, they both have one wide cone.  Only real advantage is golden dragonfly's absolutely tiny cone, which in my experience isn't something you can ever count on.  Could even argue that shadow maul is better than NB or BS's one wide cone as shadow maul is harder hitting and a longer recharge, so it crits harder and is more procable.  Shadow maul also has a 10 target cap instead of only 5.

 

Energy melee and martial arts are the only "real stinkers" now, as they have exactly zero aoe.  That's what I put on the level as "stinker".

that's fair, i wasn't sure how new(TM) shadow maul stacked up.  appreciate the clarification 👍 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Machariel

[Redlynne]

2 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

Ice dumps Greater Ice Sword.

Finally ... 👍

[Machariel]

I guess if I were to go down the list of Stalker Primaries I'd say:

 

Broad Sword - overall not a fan

Pros: Lots of hard-hitting powers to use after your chance for hide if you're not interested in building an attack chain.  Can lean on parry.  can slot -def and kb procs

Cons: Slow assassin's strike, some of the worst AoE, damage type, no really great attacks

 

Claws - it works

Pros: good ranged attack (Focus), good AoE (Shockwave). 

Cons: damage type, no Follow Up (best part of Claws)

 

Dark Melee - better than i thought

Pros: damage type, very strong ST attacks, proc slotting, includes a heal, shadow maul is actually good now

Cons: no Soul Drain (best part of DM)

 

Dual Blades - can be good but you gotta commit

Pros: Free AoE stapled to your attack chain w/build up, looks cool, strong ST damage

Cons: combos are weak and require taking bad powers, damage type

 

Electrical Melee - popular on stalkers for good reason

Pros: 3 good AoE powers, respectable ST

Cons: not a ton of good options for proc slotting

 

Energy Melee - dont it's like #1 now thanks homecoming devs ❤️

 

Fiery Melee - play it on a Scrapper

Pros: damage type?

Cons: surprisingly poor AoE, lose incinerate (great attack) for the slowest assassin's strike

 

Ice Melee - actually good

Pros: Freezing Touch gets it crit damage frontloaded and hits like a truck, 2 good AoEs, ice patch is 1-slot wonder for damage mitigation

Cons: single target attacks outside of AS + freezing touch are kinda meh (opposite problem of Broad Sword)

 

Kinetic Melee - i'm a fanboy

Pros: 0.67 sec Assassin's Strike, entire attack chain by level 8, burst is a guaranteed crit unlike every other AoE (but still not great), Concentrated Strike free build ups are 'fun', utility ranged attack

Cons: feels stronger than it actually is

 

Martial Arts - other sets do it better

Pros: most of its attacks hit hard for their animation times, can stack disorients

Cons: literally zero AoE attacks

 

Ninja Blade - the better broad sword

Pros: It's better than broad sword

Cons: It's not better than much else

 

Psi Melee - the wildcard

Pros: damage type? mass levitate is good AoE, confuse power is unique on stalkers.  greater psi blade criticals sound good

Cons: Insight mechanic is kinda weird and unreliable.  i've heard the set does only OK damage without it and not that much more with it

 

Radiation Melee - has anyone ever seen a rad melee stalker?

Pros: unsure but devastating blow critical sounds good, rad has excellent proc slotting options, proton sweep is a good cone, has a heal

Cons: seems like a worse dark melee

 

Savage Melee - the better claws & the better spines

Pros: hemo from hide, savage leap is great AoE, rending flurry is nutty at full stacks, shred is decent

Cons: damage type, no mitigation + DoT damage = you might get attacked more

 

Spines - the fiery aura of stalker primaries

Pros: lots of AoE attacks

Cons: AoE attacks aren't very good, no damage aura, no hard hitting single target attack to follow assassin's strike

 

Staff Fighting - the 2nd best weapon set

Pros: you get perfection of body for free, a parry-like power that's also an AoE (makes sense - if surrounded, get +def), and then a ranged attack and a second pbaoe

Cons: slow attacks really hinder ST dps

 

Street Justice - praise be to Saint Jay

Pros: assassin's focus + combo points = guaranteed crushing uppercut crits.  a few good AoE attacks.  overall one of the strongset

Cons: chasing the perfect chain might not be for you.  i don't like playing the set without access to crushing uppercut

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Machariel

[Galamane]

On 6/2/2020 at 5:43 PM, Machariel said:

I guess if I were to go down the list of Stalker Primaries I'd say:

 

Broad Sword - overall not a fan

Pros: Lots of hard-hitting powers to use after your chance for hide if you're not interested in building an attack chain.  Can lean on parry.  can slot -def and kb procs

Cons: Slow assassin's strike, some of the worst AoE, damage type, no really great attacks

 

Claws - it works

Pros: good ranged attack (Focus), good AoE (Shockwave). 

Cons: damage type, no Follow Up (best part of Claws)

 

Dark Melee - better than i thought

Pros: damage type, very strong ST attacks, proc slotting, includes a heal, shadow maul is actually good now

Cons: no Soul Drain (best part of DM)

 

Dual Blades - can be good but you gotta commit

Pros: Free AoE stapled to your attack chain w/build up, looks cool, strong ST damage

Cons: combos are weak and require taking bad powers, damage type

 

Electrical Melee - popular on stalkers for good reason

Pros: 3 good AoE powers, respectable ST

Cons: not a ton of good options for proc slotting

 

Energy Melee - don't

 

Fiery Melee - play it on a Scrapper

Pros: damage type?

Cons: surprisingly poor AoE, lose incinerate (great attack) for the slowest assassin's strike

 

Ice Melee - actually good

Pros: Freezing Touch gets it crit damage frontloaded and hits like a truck, 2 good AoEs, ice patch is 1-slot wonder for damage mitigation

Cons: single target attacks outside of AS + freezing touch are kinda meh (opposite problem of Broad Sword)

 

Kinetic Melee - i'm a fanboy

Pros: 0.67 sec Assassin's Strike, entire attack chain by level 8, burst is a guaranteed crit unlike every other AoE (but still not great), Concentrated Strike free build ups are 'fun', utility ranged attack

Cons: feels stronger than it actually is

 

Martial Arts - other sets do it better

Pros: most of its attacks hit hard for their animation times, can stack disorients

Cons: literally zero AoE attacks

 

Ninja Blade - the better broad sword

Pros: It's better than broad sword

Cons: It's not better than much else

 

Psi Melee - the wildcard

Pros: damage type? mass levitate is good AoE, confuse power is unique on stalkers.  greater psi blade criticals sound good

Cons: Insight mechanic is kinda weird and unreliable.  i've heard the set does only OK damage without it and not that much more with it

 

Radiation Melee - has anyone ever seen a rad melee stalker?

Pros: unsure but devastating blow critical sounds good, rad has excellent proc slotting options, proton sweep is a good cone, has a heal

Cons: seems like a worse dark melee

 

Savage Melee - the better claws & the better spines

Pros: hemo from hide, savage leap is great AoE, rending flurry is nutty at full stacks, shred is decent

Cons: damage type, no mitigation + DoT damage = you might get attacked more

 

Spines - the fiery aura of stalker primaries

Pros: lots of AoE attacks

Cons: AoE attacks aren't very good, no damage aura, no hard hitting single target attack to follow assassin's strike

 

Staff Fighting - the 2nd best weapon set

Pros: you get perfection of body for free, a parry-like power that's also an AoE (makes sense - if surrounded, get +def), and then a ranged attack and a second pbaoe

Cons: slow attacks really hinder ST dps

 

Street Justice - praise be to Saint Jay

Pros: assassin's focus + combo points = guaranteed crushing uppercut crits.  a few good AoE attacks.  overall one of the strongset

Cons: chasing the perfect chain might not be for you.  i don't like playing the set without access to crushing uppercut

 

Energy Melee - do!