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Fire/MA: the Brunker, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

Sovera

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Rakshir

Rakshir

Posted
Posted

@Sovera, Could you use Spring Attack with the Fire / Ice build to get another AE and a FF +recharge into the build ?  I'm not a big fan of Flight, so will have Super Jump and Combat Jump already.

Sovera

Sovera

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  On 11/20/2021 at 7:12 PM, Rakshir said:

@Sovera, Could you use Spring Attack with the Fire / Ice build to get another AE and a FF +recharge into the build ?  I'm not a big fan of Flight, so will have Super Jump and Combat Jump already.

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Can, yeah, you can. But do you really want to? It does slightly more damage than a T2 (around 255 damage) on a T9's recharge. The radius is pretty decent at 15y but we're talking 30 second recharge at best so the FF proc don't you much good. Perhaps Cross Punch would work better for your purpose (250 damage with... a two second recharge) though you'll have to scrounge those slots from somewhere.

 

Something like this I suppose. It's not perfect but gives an idea. Trouble to me is always the lateness I end up getting Crosspunch. There are too many more urgent picks to get, but that's just me.

 

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- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

Rakshir

Rakshir

Posted
Posted
  On 11/20/2021 at 7:49 PM, Sovera said:

 

Can, yeah, you can. But do you really want to? It does slightly more damage than a T2 (around 255 damage) on a T9's recharge. The radius is pretty decent at 15y but we're talking 30 second recharge at best so the FF proc don't you much good. Perhaps Cross Punch would work better for your purpose (250 damage with... a two second recharge) though you'll have to scrounge those slots from somewhere.

 

Something like this I suppose. It's not perfect but gives an idea. Trouble to me is always the lateness I end up getting Crosspunch. There are too many more urgent picks to get, but that's just me.

 

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Thanks for the super fast reply, and another build to look over.  I'm still very new to the end game, but I do love the Fire Armor / Ice Melee.  It just seemed with how much you praised FF in MA.  I thought may be advantageous to slide one in the build.  I really appreciate you throwing a build with jump in for me to look over.

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mcdoogss

mcdoogss

Posted
Posted
  On 11/20/2021 at 8:27 PM, Rakshir said:

Thanks for the super fast reply, and another build to look over.  I'm still very new to the end game, but I do love the Fire Armor / Ice Melee.  It just seemed with how much you praised FF in MA.  I thought may be advantageous to slide one in the build.  I really appreciate you throwing a build with jump in for me to look over.

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In my experience, the FF proc isn't terribly reliable in cross punch.  YMMV but so far I've found on my Fire/Ice that burn + frost + frozen aura pretty much has most groups on the ground besides the bosses.  

 

Cross punch is probably a better power than Greater Ice Sword though all things considered.

  • 3 weeks later
Fiyrmane

Fiyrmane

Posted
Posted

After playing this the last month.  I've played with MIDS and wondered if anybody would like to comment just make sure I'm not missing anything.  My goal is having a solid tank with good exemplar capabilities for TF content for my family group.  I don't want him to rely on any incarnate powers to fill in holes, also was avoiding superior enhancements as they don't exemplar at all.  I tried to get decent DEF totals, but know I have no Debuff defense.  

 

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1421&c=689&a=1378&f=HEX&dc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

Tanker - Fire Armor - Ice Melee(K3).mxdFetching info...

Sovera

Sovera

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Posted
  On 12/12/2021 at 5:52 PM, Rakshir said:

Sorry that previous post was mine, didn't see alternate account for Fire farmer was logged in.

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You'll have to explain what you mean by 'superior enhancements don't examplar at all'.

- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

Rakshir

Rakshir

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 12/12/2021 at 6:17 PM, Sovera said:

 

 

You'll have to explain what you mean by 'superior enhancements don't examplar at all'.

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Am I wrong that they don't go below level 50 ?  I was mainly referring to the AT Superior recipes.  But this guy spends most of his time below level 50 doing Pillar content so I'd rather use the basic AT enhancement and get the bonuses down to level 10 versus only when I'm level 50.  

Edited by Rakshir
Clarification
Sovera

Sovera

Posted
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Posted
  On 12/12/2021 at 6:43 PM, Rakshir said:

Am I wrong that they don't go below level 50 ?  

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Yep. Nothing in the build does not go under level 50. The original build as posted works very very well all the way down to level 1, but really takes off at level 13 (exemplared) which is when Burn comes active.

 

When you do as low as Positron part one you have access to Frost, Burn, Build-Up and Ice Patch. You'll be good to play with the family, fam.

- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

Rakshir

Rakshir

Posted
Posted

Thanks for pointing that out @Sovera.  I was going by the descriptions  in the enhancement.  I'm glad you pointed out how wrong I was.  Makes me happy as I had a whole Superior Tank set purchased that I hadn't equipped yet.  Sorry for my inaccuracies and helping me before I went down the wrong path.

Sovera

Sovera

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  On 12/12/2021 at 7:05 PM, Rakshir said:

Thanks for pointing that out @Sovera.  I was going by the descriptions  in the enhancement.  I'm glad you pointed out how wrong I was.  Makes me happy as I had a whole Superior Tank set purchased that I hadn't equipped yet.  Sorry for my inaccuracies and helping me before I went down the wrong path.

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No worries. Good to hear you're having fun o/

- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

Sovera

Sovera

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Re-did the Fire/Stone to test the revamped Stone Melee.

 

Unfortunately Fault did not pass muster. Its roleplay still needs to be on the ground for it to be used which makes trying to use with Hover an impossibility. Tremor has this but to a lesser effect. We can use it with Hover, but need to be near the ground. Which is acceptable. A pity they could not share code.

 

In any case I gave it a test and even with a Brute (who does more damage) and on the low levels (where Fury is astoundingly good), and with a full Fury bar, and with Build-up + Gaussian... it still left minions at half HP.

 

Color me unimpressed in the attempt at giving Stone Melee a mid level AoE to tidy the other ATs until 32. I understand that there is a hefty depletion of a power's budget due to the strong CC Fault has, which leads to silliness by alternating Fault and Tremor, but, the set remains still in need of a mid level AoE.

 

Not for us though. All hail Tankers the master AT!

 

 

So, the shaved time in Tremor was the linchpin that the set needed to get moved a tier or three. Right now it's gooooooooooood. A very definite stamp of approval from Sovera! And unlike other lesser (hehe) combos/ATs we can rely on Burn straight away at Posi 1 which fixes the AoE problem until Tremor is available

 

After PLing myself to 23 I start on Posi 1 at +0x6 and melted my way through, one death when CoT bullshit managed to get at verrrrrrrrry end, the two groups just before the shadow simulacrum. Darn shame.

 

At seeing how easy it had been I bumped to +0x8 for Posi 2. Lets keep in mind it's packed with CoT doing CoT BS... and even so it got done, no deaths, 47 minutes.

 

The secret ingredient? A FF proc in both mallets. Burn rushing back, Build-up rushing back. Build-up at those levels with a Gaussian is a killer and CoT BS is laughed at.

 

I then skipped Synapse and went to Yin to test Tremor. And it was beautiful. It got done in 46 minutes (yes, I noticed the similar times for both TFs), no deaths, +1x8. To put in perspective the Fire/Dual Blades I was testing yesterday got Yin done in 1:06h so it's a 20 minute improvement.

 

 

The ST is still definitely Tanker damage though. It relies on Burn to pump it and it relies on constantly using Build-up and Fiery Embrace. Do not try to save BU + FE, the FF procs will bring them back and no one wants to whittle enemies. EM it ain't, but then nothing but EM is EM, but it's good enough and the constant FF procs make the game very smooth. The KD/KU can't be overlooked. It was common to kill Freak Tanks before they could heal. Ultimately I just found it -fun-, which is important, but I'm pretty damage oriented.

 

 

One good thing about Tanker is being forced to take Stone Fists. It would feel bad to take it when it has no use outside of exemplaring but since we're forced... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

That makes for an easy ST rotation even as low as Posi 1. Not a -great- rotation, and it does have gaps at such low levels, but it allows for Heavy Mallet, Stone Fist, Stone Mallet, Stone Fists. This will be bread and butter all the way until 38 when we can move to Seismic Smash, Stone Mallet, Heavy Mallet, Stone Mallet. The recharge is not good enough to make this gapless (outside of a FF proc) but it's close enough for my purposes. Anyone else who wishes can use Stone Fist in that gap though I'd advise to pick a couple slots from somewhere and boost Stone Fist if it's going to be used as the current slotting is just for exemplaring/leveling.

 

 

I have tried this build in the past and it was endurance heavy, but the new build eschews Maneuvers for the nearly free Combat Jumping while also tweaking the slotting to no longer need Tough toggled on to reach 90%. Assault was also dropped to up Slow resistance and free a slot. This leaves the build at 1.86 consumption with 3.82 EPS.

 

As usual it relies on two ATO stacks and Barrier to reach 45% to S/L and 90% to SL/E/N.

 

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- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

  • 2 weeks later
Sovera

Sovera

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After a stint of playing Rad Melee I went from 'I'll never touch this again, the animations suck too much' to having made five alts in a row.

 

It always worked well but it was endurance heavy, Devastating Blow has the same animation length as for other ATs but hits much more softly which made it hard to stomach, so I went through a phase of trying to make Rad Melee work without Devastating Blow... and it didn't work so well. It really needs that or otherwise the ST damage is always mediocre.

 

So I cleaned up the build, removed Tough to be one less toggle, changed Maneuvers for Combat Jumping for the same purpose, usual numbers that use all the IOs and tricks and gimmicks to reach the soft and hardcaps instead of just headbutting them to 90%.

 

I had no spare powers thanks to Tankers being forced to take the T1 so I had to choose between Atom Smasher and Devastating. Since AoE is taken care by Burn and Irradiated Ground, and ST is what the builds lacks, I took Devastating. But anyone who prefers can just swap it for Atom Smasher.

 

I usually do not take -res procs but they fit really well in Irradiated Ground and it's a passive damage increase that Tankers appreciate. I've taken to run Yin while still leveling as a damage/survival test and while not perfect for the purpose the build did beat previous records with a nice 39 minutes, no inspirations defensive or offensive used until Clamor who then had to use a purple to survive her -def debuffs + ambush.

 

 

Brute or Tanker version are pretty similar though I do have a (large) soft spot for having Burn available since Posi 1. While IG is great it is random damage when we depend on it as the sole AoE. This is only until Yin though.

 

Ultimately the Brute will do more damage (nearly 200 more just in Devastating Blow, but also nearly that with Burn), but they are a bit squishier with those 500 HP less and a 30% ish hole in E/N resists.

 

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- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

  • 1 month later
Ultimate15

Ultimate15

Posted
Posted

Hiiiiii. This thread is super expansive and in-depth! Impressive.

 

Does anyone happen to have a build for a firey aura / street justice tank? I'm looking for a reliable, completed build (I can't adjust or 'fix' any builds cause I dunno what I'm doing LOL, so I'm looking for one that doesn't really need any tweaks).

 

Anyone? Been looking everywhere. 

Sovera

Sovera

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Posted
  On 2/25/2022 at 12:24 AM, Ultimate15 said:

Hiiiiii. This thread is super expansive and in-depth! Impressive.

 

Does anyone happen to have a build for a firey aura / street justice tank? I'm looking for a reliable, completed build (I can't adjust or 'fix' any builds cause I dunno what I'm doing LOL, so I'm looking for one that doesn't really need any tweaks).

 

Anyone? Been looking everywhere. 

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Something like this. I keep trying to like StJ but the damage being funneled to Crushing Uppercut and removed from the builders does not make it very satisfying to me.

 

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- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

  • 3 weeks later
Glowman

Glowman

Posted
Posted (edited)

@Soveraif I didn’t want to run hover in my build thematically (Fire/MA), how would you recommend I change up the build?

Edited by Glowman
Included which build.
Sovera

Sovera

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Posted
  On 3/17/2022 at 9:46 PM, Glowman said:

@Soveraif I didn’t want to run hover in my build thematically (Fire/MA), how would you recommend I change up the build?

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Something like this? One free power to take whatever. Taunt, maybe?

 

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- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

kelika2

kelika2

Posted
Posted

If you are just nutting over tanker damage ideas consider:

 

Fire/staff

Fire/dark

 

Both of those gets two AoEs at 20, and burn.

 

spinning+burn.  stances can eliminate end issues or more dmg

dark dots+burn.  dark consumption is still one hell of a proc bomb

 

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Glowman

Glowman

Posted
Posted
  On 3/18/2022 at 12:51 PM, Sovera said:

 

Something like this? One free power to take whatever. Taunt, maybe?

 

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Thank you! I'll check it out.

  • 2 months later
Sovera

Sovera

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Posted
  On 5/25/2022 at 12:32 AM, Brigadiar said:

Out of curiosity, did you ever try Fire/Savage any further with this? I imagine it might make a better brute, but I'm curious.

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The damage was lower than I liked and DoT damage is not a good mesh for CoH. Perhaps if there was a mode with harder enemies. The AoE is nice and three PbAoEs are good for clearing faster though. The Brute version came out pretty amazing, especially the Savage/Stone with Brimstone helping and Fury pumping out the myriad DoTs. But even that one it ended up slowly turning boring with the very fast attacks doing delayed damage.

 

On tougher enemies Savage shines combined with it's Build-up mechanic that ensures 100% bleed chance. Start hitting things and see the numbers climbing. Hit a hard enemy and see its HP disappearing a flurry of whittled numbers. But then fight the minion by its side and here we are hitting it 3-4 times, and often hitting it a fifth just to be sure it dies after having experienced enemies alive on a sliver of HP after trusting the DoTs to kill it. That slows the actual gameplay, or it did with me.

- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

Sovera

Sovera

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I've taken a break from the game but I'm actually pondering making a new Tanker and come back since CoH is my comfort game. Tbh and not something people want to hear in the Tanker forums, but Brutes are just better to play the game. Game does not ask or require uber tanky and anything that kills a Brute will also kill a Tanker. When both survive without a problem the question is why pick the version that does less damage. Which, despite some -very- vocal people (love ya, Bill) the Tanker firmly is.

 

Perhaps in a world without Incarnates or 50 inf inspirations that can be restocked between missions.

 

Reasons to pick Tanker is for the combos. Which is why despite what I just ranted about Tankers I'll be making one. I've refined my oldie Fire/Energy Melee, with its two early-ish AoEs and EM to counter a Tanker's lower damage, to not need Tough toggled on and have Energy Punch instead of Barrage (Barrage 'steals' Focus). Barrage still needs to be taken but it is going to be muled and I want to test if the leveling experience feels better with it.

 

To be honest it should have replaced Fire/Claws as the 'dragon' option, but I've a soft spot for Fire/Claws.

 

I'll post the pylon times later if the leveling felt good, and maybe replace Claws with it.

 

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- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

Brigadiar

Brigadiar

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 5/25/2022 at 12:56 AM, Sovera said:

 

The damage was lower than I liked and DoT damage is not a good mesh for CoH. Perhaps if there was a mode with harder enemies. The AoE is nice and three PbAoEs are good for clearing faster though. The Brute version came out pretty amazing, especially the Savage/Stone with Brimstone helping and Fury pumping out the myriad DoTs. But even that one it ended up slowly turning boring with the very fast attacks doing delayed damage.

 

On tougher enemies Savage shines combined with it's Build-up mechanic that ensures 100% bleed chance. Start hitting things and see the numbers climbing. Hit a hard enemy and see its HP disappearing a flurry of whittled numbers. But then fight the minion by its side and here we are hitting it 3-4 times, and often hitting it a fifth just to be sure it dies after having experienced enemies alive on a sliver of HP after trusting the DoTs to kill it. That slows the actual gameplay, or it did with me.

Expand  

That makes sense. I'm just a big fan of how savage plays, and I've been wanting to re-invent my Savage/WP brute as a Savage/Fire brute for a couple of reasons - some related to me playing on Everlasting and being a roleplayer, but that besides. I know this is the tank forums, but do you think you might have been able to improve the damage output of Sav/Fire with the addition of Dark/Gloom? Or would that have been too much on end? 

Also, out of curiosity - again - how did you handle Blood frenzy? Stack to four and spend on Rending, or did you do a chain with five stacks of Blood Frenzy as the focus instead?

Edited by Brigadiar
Sovera

Sovera

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 5/25/2022 at 11:24 AM, Brigadiar said:

That makes sense. I'm just a big fan of how savage plays, and I've been wanting to re-invent my Savage/WP brute as a Savage/Fire brute for a couple of reasons - some related to me playing on Everlasting and being a roleplayer, but that besides. I know this is the tank forums, but do you think you might have been able to improve the damage output of Sav/Fire with the addition of Dark/Gloom? Or would that have been too much on end? 

Also, out of curiosity - again - how did you handle Blood frenzy? Stack to four and spend on Rending, or did you do a chain with five stacks of Blood Frenzy as the focus instead?

Expand  

 

Gloom improves every build it is inserted in, but honestly give Sav/Stone a try. Very sturdy and Fury pumps the bleed DoTs, Brimstone DoTs, Mud Pots, while Sav with its two AoEs can keep on clearing groups. When I tried EM/Stone Whirling Hands and Brimstone did not make AoE clearing feel good.

- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

Sovera

Sovera

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Tweaked the Fire/Super Strength to not need to have Tough toggled on to reach 90% S/L. Usual gimmicks of two ATO stacks + Barrier for 90% resistances and 45% S/L.

 

I'm not 100% happy with the ST rotation but the FF proc in KO Blow should mean KOB - Haymaker - Burn - Haymaker - KOB is possible, but if the FF proc does not go off despite KO Blow's phenomenal chance of making procs happen then inject a Jab in there to cover said gap.

 

While leveling and without all the slotting in place it's probably best to go KOB - Burn - Jab - Haymaker - Jab. If it's still not enough then add another before Burn. Punch would be better than Jab, but, Tankers don't get to choose. Boxing is -slightly- better (heck, even Air Superiority might be better considering the 100% CC) but fitting everything early implies using Jab instead.

 

 

Burn fixes SS's lack of an early AoE and makes leveling a SS character palatable while Rage makes Burn the heavy hitter. Handclap was picked and slotted just for the Rage crash where spamming it and Footstomp ought to give a breather.

 

 

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- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

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