DPS? or DPA?

[GATE-keeper]

I guess I need a primer on picking powers (alliteration ftw)

 

If you have to choose between two powers do you pick the one with the highest Damage per Second or the one with the highest Damage per Activation.

 

Frex, if I create a Psi Melee broot.  At first level I have to choose between Mental Strike and Psi Blade.

 

Mental Strike does 9.86 avg dmg and recharges in 3 seconds so I can use it 20 times a minute so if I attack using nothing but Mental Strike I'll do 9.86 x 20 = 197.2 dmg in a minute of fighting.

 

Psi Blade does 15.96 avg dmg and recharges in 5 seconds so I can use it 12 times a minute so if I attack using nothing but Psi Blade I'll do 15.96 x 12 = 191.52 dmg in a minute of fighting.

 

So if I pick my first power using the Damage per Second paradigm, then Mental Strike is the winner.  But for realz, not really that much difference.

 

But at second level when Telekinetic Blow becomes available, it does only 21.14 avg dmg x 6.67 times per minute = 140.9 damage in a minute of fighting.  Which is significantly below the first two powers.  Does this mean that at 2nd level I should ignore Telekinetic Blow and just pick whichever of the first two I did not get?

 

=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-==-

 

But if I compare Damage per Activation Time:

     Mental Strike has (9.86 avg dmg divided by 1 sec activation time = ) 9.86 DPA.

     Psi Blade has (15.96 avg dmg divided by 1.33 sec activation time = ) 12 DPA.

So if I pick powers using the Damage per Activation paradigm, then Psi Blade is the clear choice at first level.

    At second level when Telekinetic Blow becomes available, it has (21.14 avg dmg divided by 1.47 activation time = ) 14.38 DPA

 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

T E A L    D E E R 

If I pick powers using DPS, I should pick Mental Strike and Psi Blade and ignore Telekinetic Blow

If I pick powers using DPA, I should pick Psi Blade and Telekinetic Blow and ignore Mental Strike

What should I do?

 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

(and this doesn't even go into those people who say DPE (damage per endurance) is the way to go.  Cuz if you ain't got no endurance, you ain't doin' no damije)

[Saikochoro]

I think the general rule of thumb is to use DPA.  I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure the cooldown starts after the animation is over. 
 

When you start getting high recharge in your powers, animation time gets more important. My math might be a bit off, but with 200% haste (between slotting and global bonuses) your recharge times would be as follows:

 

MS = 1

PB = 1.67

TB = 3

 

Animations would remain the same and thus their respective animation time per damage applied becomes comparably more important the higher your recharge. 
 

Recharge + Animation

MS = 2, which would be 295.8 DPS (30 attacks in 1 minute). 

PB = 3, which would be 319.5 DPS (20 attacks in 1 minute). 

TB = 4.47, which would be 283.8 DPS (13.4 attacks in 1 minute). 
 

At 250% haste (slotting + global bonuses) the DPS would be:

MS = 318.5

PB = 437.8

TB = 545

 

So the higher your recharge the less important recharge time is and the more important animation time is because the higher your recharge goes the more down time is spent on animations. 
 

Most end game builds have endurance management covered so DPE is largely ignored. Also, most end game builds push recharge thus making DPA comparatively more important.
 

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that is why DPA is usually the way to go. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Saikochoro

[Bill Z Bubba]

But then you have to figure in Arcanatime. ArcanaTime = [RoundUp(CastTime / 0.132) + 1] * 0.132 from http://web.archive.org/web/20120904191140/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=810428

 

MS actually takes 1.188 seconds to animate

PB takes 1.584 secs

TB 1.716 secs

 

This becomes more important when attempting to calculate exactly how much recharge is needed per attack for the tightest attack chains you can muster. Example: Claws Followup needs 313% total recharge pushing it for a truly seamless Followup, Focus, Slash, repeat chain.

 

Reworking with the proper animation times to get a more accurate DPA, and for quick reference you can use Bopper's spreadsheet from https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/22358-would-something-like-this-be-of-interest-to-anyone/

 

We get a list we can use that puts the order as follows:

TB

GSB

PBS

PB

MS

ML

 

Interesting that the Psi Blade Sweep cone has the third best DPA in the set.

[Tsuko]

2 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Claws Followup needs 313% total recharge pushing it for a truly seamless Followup, Focus, Slash, repeat chain.

 

This gave me chills 🙂

 

 

[Omega-202]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

But then you have to figure in Arcanatime. ArcanaTime = [RoundUp(CastTime / 0.132) + 1] * 0.132 from http://web.archive.org/web/20120904191140/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=810428

Have we confirmed the relevance of Arcanatime in the modern HC world?  I've taken it as gospel, but have heard from pretty knowledgeable individuals in game that the concept is outdated and not applicable to the HC net cycles, like it was on live.

 

I've been meaning to test it but haven't had the time (stupid real world job).

[Bill Z Bubba]

35 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

Have we confirmed the relevance of Arcanatime in the modern HC world?  I've taken it as gospel, but have heard from pretty knowledgeable individuals in game that the concept is outdated and not applicable to the HC net cycles, like it was on live.

 

I've been meaning to test it but haven't had the time (stupid real world job).

I saw a mention of it. But I've seen no data so far that leads me to believe it is no longer in effect. Recharge on my attack chains is still apparently following it to a T.

[nihilii]

7 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I saw a mention of it. But I've seen no data so far that leads me to believe it is no longer in effect. Recharge on my attack chains is still apparently following it to a T.

I'm going with this as well. I sometimes build attack chains where the recharge required fits by 0.2s or 0.1s, and those calculations (and the attack chain) would break if arcanatime wasn't in place.

[DSorrow]

11 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

Have we confirmed the relevance of Arcanatime in the modern HC world?  I've taken it as gospel, but have heard from pretty knowledgeable individuals in game that the concept is outdated and not applicable to the HC net cycles, like it was on live.

 

I've been meaning to test it but haven't had the time (stupid real world job).

It might be that Arcanatime with the exact 0.132s tick interval isn't relevant, but I'd guess the underlying mechanism would still exist in a similar fashion even with a new server. It wouldn't make too much of a difference if the interval was actually 0.1s considering that the max difference between the written activation time and actual time consumed is 2*interval, even a significantly faster server with 0.05s intervals would differ from the Arcanatime estimate by ~0.16s (=2*0.132 - 2*0.05) maximum, and likely around 0.1s on average depending on how written activation times are distributed. Given lag and inconsistency in my own inputs, I doubt I'd be able to notice my attacks needing 0.1s worth of additional recharge to be completely seamless.

 

EDIT: Just adding that attack chains based on ArcanaTime seem to work just fine for me.

Edited October 7, 2020 by DSorrow

[Bill Z Bubba]

Maybe @arcanavilleknows. I don't even know what the .132 tick was based off of or whether it was linked to physical hardware or based on something in the code itself.