Is Rad/Kin strong on damage?

[beradical]

Or will I regret just not rolling a Fire/Kin like everyone else? I know Fire is a less resisted dmg type, and the damage king, but I like radiation and figure energy should still be decent. But is Rad a Tier 2 or even 3 on a Corr, or a solid competitive choice? I like the mix of ST & AoE, looks like it would add solid damage cleaning up mobs and against the AV. Really my priorities are damage and speed, I want to run from group to group doing as much damage as fast as possible.

 

I don't mind rerolling if there is something else that will provide noticeably more damage and value to teams/leagues. And not be slow.

[Onlyasandwich]

Rad kin won't be slow, but like most blast sets, it is definitely lower than fire. It has some nice proc opportunities to help make up for this, anda little handy Mez in its tier 3. 

 

Kin and rad are a classic combo - you won't go wrong.

 

Rad's fastest aoe is irradiate, which is pbaoe, and plays well with scourge. If you want to move fast, you'll find yourself living a lot in melee, so should build accordingly for defense. The nuke is of course great, though the other two aoes are slow to activate.

 

 

[beradical]

Ok, but the other 2 AoEs, being slower, will make them more proccable? I know you are good with procs so a good person to ask.

[Onlyasandwich]

It does help a little with the formula. I haven't made a rad blast build in a while, so I don't have one at hand. It isn't always perfect, but I mostly rely on mids to estimate damage totals with procs, as it is usually accurate.

 

I can say that I've given electron haze a chance several times and always dropped it.

 

Neutron Bomb, on the other hand, is easy to use at any range and has a high target cap. I like it overall.

 

Darkir's kintank thread is a great resource in general, and you may find a rad blast build in there. As always, there will likely be a firm trade-off between defensive ios and reaching beyond the damage cap with procs. 

 

One thing worth considering on a kin is that it is easier to forego some base damage enhancement in pursuit of set totals, and kin itself is not slot hungry at all. This gives you more to throw at maximizing Rad's potential.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Onlyasandwich

[gervaise]

Don't think of characters as having only 2 power sets; at higher level you can add a 3rd - to fill in "weaknesses" or - if you wish - doubles up on "strengths" (you could add "fire"!) 

 

How you slot powers will also play a part e.g. to boost damage. Ultimately you may opt for one power over another based on how they can be slotted. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by gervaise

[carroto]

The single-target blasts are pretty poor.  The first two especially, but really all of them.  I dream of Corruptors getting the Blaster version of Rad Blast.  The one thing I do love about the set is the snipe.  Since it does its damage in 4 chunks (I think it's 4), if you put a -res proc in it and it fires, you'll see the first bit of damage do one amount, and then the other three do more damage.  So it's able to boost it's own damage, which is great.  My favorite snipe in the game.  Too bad about the rest of the blasts though.

[Onlyasandwich]

The st feels at least ok these days with quicksnipes being part of the regular attack chain. Great point about the multiple pulses, Carroto.

 

Throw in a two or three damage procs and x-ray is solid enough. The fact that -def opens up two more damage procs and achilles really helps pick up the slack.

 

Neutrino bolt is unfortunately a sad shell of its former buzzsaw glory.

[DreadShinobi]

Heavy proc builds work great with Kinetics because fulcrum shift will cap out your damage. That said I'd say Rad/Kin will still fall short of Fire Blasting goodness. 

 

Rad/Kin has a few pros that should be noted:

52.5% AoE resistance debuffing if all 3 procs go off. When you're damage capped, -res and damage procs are the only thing that will give you more damage.

Damage Capped and procced out Neutron Bomb+Irradiate deal as much damage as an Atomic Blast. 

Oppressive Gloom+Cosmic Burst will 1 shot stun bosses and all minions in the spawn.

Siphon Speed gives great uptime on Rune of Protection, offering up to 90 seconds uptime/68 seconds downtime of amazing resists and mez protection.

Note that Vigor Core Paragon is vital to enhance accuracy and endurance reduction in order to run Irradiate/neutron bomb/proton volley with 6 procs in each. 

 

I don't play rad/kin but I do have an ice/kin corr that slots similarly having attacks with full proc slotting as you make up for the lack of damage slotting with saturated fulcrum shift.

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.1.25
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Corruptor
Primary Power Set: Radiation Blast
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Neutrino Bolt -- SprScrBls-Rchg/+End(A), SprScrBls-Acc/Dmg(7), SprScrBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 1: Transfusion -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(17), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(17), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(23), NmnCnv-Heal(25), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(43)
Level 2: Irradiate -- FuroftheG-ResDeb%(A), Arm-Dam%(3), Erd-%Dam(3), ShlBrk-%Dam(5), TchofLadG-%Dam(5), Obl-%Dam(7)
Level 4: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 6: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(15)
Level 8: Proton Volley -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), ShlBrk-%Dam(9), TchofLadG-%Dam(9), GldJvl-Dam%(11), StnoftheM-Dam%(11), Apc-Dam%(34)
Level 10: Siphon Speed -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(13), Rct-ResDam%(15), Ksm-ToHit+(37)
Level 14: Spirit Ward -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(25), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(39), Prv-Heal/Rchg(40), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(40), Prv-Absorb%(40)
Level 16: Increase Density -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 18: Cosmic Burst -- SprMlcoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMlcoft-Dmg/Rchg(19), SprMlcoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), SprMlcoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprMlcoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprMlcoft-Rchg/Dmg%(23)
Level 20: Speed Boost -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel(43)
Level 22: Boxing -- Stp-Acc/Rchg(A), Stp-EndRdx/Stun(34), Stp-Acc/EndRdx(36), Stp-Stun/Rng(36), Stp-Acc/Stun/Rchg(36), Stp-KB%(37)
Level 24: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 26: Neutron Bomb -- ShlBrk-%Dam(A), TchofLadG-%Dam(27), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(27), PstBls-Dam%(29), Ann-ResDeb%(29), AchHee-ResDeb%(31)
Level 28: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(39), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(39), LucoftheG-Def(48)
Level 30: Aim -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 32: Atomic Blast -- SprScrBls-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprScrBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), SprScrBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Transference -- PreOptmz-Acc/Rech(A), PreOptmz-EndMod/End(46), PreOptmz-EndMod/Rech(46), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/End(46), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/Rech(48), PreOptmz-EndMod/End/Rech(48)
Level 38: Fulcrum Shift -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Oppressive Gloom -- AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(A), AbsAmz-Stun(42), AbsAmz-Stun/Rchg(42), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(42), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Dark Embrace -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(45), UnbGrd-Max HP%(45), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(45)
Level 47: Mystic Flight -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 49: Rune of Protection -- UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(50), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(50), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(31), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Hct-Acc/Rchg(33), Hct-Dam%(34)
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Scourge 
Level 1: Sprint -- HO:Micro(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(37)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 50: Vigor Core Paragon 
------------

 

 

[Darkir]

Kinetics will make any set damaging on a corruptor, but no, radiation blast will not do anywhere near as much damage as fire. This is because fire's base dmg is higher and then all the dots are being increased to the damage cap as well. You can make a great character as a rad/kin, but it will mostly be due to slotting and the innate power of kinetics. Fire/kins are so popular for a reason. 

Kinetics also plays best in melee and therefore you need to find a way to get s/l softcapped def or melee def on top of ranged def. The problem with this is that it leaves very little room for procs, you can slot some, but by no means does it give you the room proc out a build. When you don't have to worry about survival so much, it allows you to focus much more on damage and good fulcrum shifts. Getting softcapped defense will result in more overall damage in harder difficulties. 

 

Personally, I think you will be happy with either radiation blast or fire, irradiate is a great power, but you may end up with fire envy.

[beradical]

Thank you all for the input. I'm going to roll a Fire/Kin and leave the Radiation primary for a Rad/Bio Scrapper I've been chewing on. And just to make sure, Corruptor is a good AT for Fire/Kin?

[Darkir]

1 hour ago, beradical said:

Thank you all for the input. I'm going to roll a Fire/Kin and leave the Radiation primary for a Rad/Bio Scrapper I've been chewing on. And just to make sure, Corruptor is a good AT for Fire/Kin?

Yes. Without question, yes.

[PainX]

biggest reason why to go fire imo is not the damage argument put both sets in mids now compare activation times fire will feel fluid while rad will stand locked waiting for the next attack to animate also /kin will probably extend that abit being so active yes the fire dots add up but no they are not why it is great imo

[Darkir]

Just now, PainX said:

biggest reason why to go fire imo is not the damage argument put both sets in mids now compare activation times fire will feel fluid while rad will stand locked waiting for the next attack to animate also /kin will probably extend that abit being so active yes the fire dots add up but no they are not why it is great imo

Animation time is directly connected to damage over time. 

 

Forgive me, when I said that fire blast had higher base dmg, I should have said that it has higher base dmg AND equal or better animation times leading to much higher dps. On top of all that, it also has the dots which scale with dmg and further increase the sets DPS performance, especially when paired with kinetics.

[PainX]

1 minute ago, Darkir said:

Animation time is directly connected to damage over time. 

 

Forgive me, when I said that fire blast had higher base dmg, I should have said that it has higher base dmg AND equal or better animation times leading to much higher dps. On top of all that, it also has the dots which scale with dmg and further increase the sets DPS performance, especially when paired with kinetics.

ah was not really a reply to you but regardless what stood out playing both was fireball vs neutron bomb and blaze vs cosmic burst on a corr you even get the superior version of fire blast to put in there which then also beats xray beam that all together is about a 2s cast time difference over 3 attacks

[beradical]

You were all very right, and I thank you all immensely. Super solid, great damage, but the real icing is the super fast cast times, which is awesome for all of the various "traps" like pink dots, blue cracks, tyrant crackles, and other things which would quickly kill this toon if locked in a long animation.

 

And @Darkir, your build is awesome. I like Sorcery for Rune of Protection - it's not as solid as Clarion, but suffices, letting me keep Ageless instead. That really makes this toon shine. And the soft/capped S/L/R works really well, except for defense debuff, but we all have our limitations.

 

I rarely use most of the powers, but I'm trying to find the balance between buffing/debuffing and attacking, since the ultimate goal is damage, and I think this toon's primary role is damage, including damage buff via Fulcrum Shift. Transfusion and Transference are nice when you (rarely) need them, I've been playing with dropping the heal solely for the -50% regen on AVs, but it's hard to tell if that does much.

 

Speed Boost is a massive pain to cast on each teammate, so I only ever use it if we have a stoner or if asked to. I tried some binds to select next teammate AND cast it, but it didn't work consistently, even if it did it would still be a massive pain. It's already such a busy set, which prefers me to keep Hasten, Ageless and Siphon Speed up at all times. I'd honestly be ok dropping it entirely, how awful of a Kin does that make me? But what would I take instead? Aim isn't an awful choice for the AV fights where FS hits 1 target. A proc'd out Web Cocoon would add another slow, but still only 3rd best ST attack and loses ranged def + rech. So for now I'll keep SB as a set mule, maybe eventually start using it...

 

Rain of Fire + Siphon Speed is a great duo, I have more luck slowing AVs than I did holding them with my troller (now collecting dust). And both have other benefits (dmg & buff).

 

This toon is best fast and aggressive. You have to get to the next group and pop Fulcrum Shift before the team nukes em to hell, but this also means most of the team isn't in range for the buff. So I find the fastest players, keep up with them, open with FS while they nuke, and then I drop my AoEs for scourgy sloppy seconds. It's just constant beast mode. It's virtually impossible to buff an entire team let alone league most of the time, players really tend to split up so much. The only time they tend to group is for the big AV fight, where FS does the least good with just 1 mob.

 

If you don't play that way, if you stay with the larger pack of slower toons, your damage is buffing the wrong players, and you are now a poor defender. And if I run off on my own, which I very much can, then alpha players are not hitting their damage caps, and it slows down the entire trial/TF.

[Doomguide2005]

Been a little out of touch due to dead computer but isn't  Speed Boost one of the buffs that's now an AoE around the target ... so shouldn't be nearly the pain it used to be to keep it up on everyone?  Or am I really getting out of touch these days?

 

Edit: @beradicalWent looking and yes Speed Boost and Increased Density both were turned into AoE buffs during issue 20 with only the damage resistance component of ID becoming an AoE buff, the rest of ID remained single target.  So you shouldn't need to catch everyone with Speed Boost.  Just select a teammate or two and you should catch anyone who hasn't gone off solo.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Doomguide2005
Added info

[Darkir]

17 hours ago, beradical said:

You were all very right, and I thank you all immensely. Super solid, great damage, but the real icing is the super fast cast times, which is awesome for all of the various "traps" like pink dots, blue cracks, tyrant crackles, and other things which would quickly kill this toon if locked in a long animation.

 

And @Darkir, your build is awesome. I like Sorcery for Rune of Protection - it's not as solid as Clarion, but suffices, letting me keep Ageless instead. That really makes this toon shine. And the soft/capped S/L/R works really well, except for defense debuff, but we all have our limitations.

 

I rarely use most of the powers, but I'm trying to find the balance between buffing/debuffing and attacking, since the ultimate goal is damage, and I think this toon's primary role is damage, including damage buff via Fulcrum Shift. Transfusion and Transference are nice when you (rarely) need them, I've been playing with dropping the heal solely for the -50% regen on AVs, but it's hard to tell if that does much.

 

Speed Boost is a massive pain to cast on each teammate, so I only ever use it if we have a stoner or if asked to. I tried some binds to select next teammate AND cast it, but it didn't work consistently, even if it did it would still be a massive pain. It's already such a busy set, which prefers me to keep Hasten, Ageless and Siphon Speed up at all times. I'd honestly be ok dropping it entirely, how awful of a Kin does that make me? But what would I take instead? Aim isn't an awful choice for the AV fights where FS hits 1 target. A proc'd out Web Cocoon would add another slow, but still only 3rd best ST attack and loses ranged def + rech. So for now I'll keep SB as a set mule, maybe eventually start using it...

 

Rain of Fire + Siphon Speed is a great duo, I have more luck slowing AVs than I did holding them with my troller (now collecting dust). And both have other benefits (dmg & buff).

 

This toon is best fast and aggressive. You have to get to the next group and pop Fulcrum Shift before the team nukes em to hell, but this also means most of the team isn't in range for the buff. So I find the fastest players, keep up with them, open with FS while they nuke, and then I drop my AoEs for scourgy sloppy seconds. It's just constant beast mode. It's virtually impossible to buff an entire team let alone league most of the time, players really tend to split up so much. The only time they tend to group is for the big AV fight, where FS does the least good with just 1 mob.

 

If you don't play that way, if you stay with the larger pack of slower toons, your damage is buffing the wrong players, and you are now a poor defender. And if I run off on my own, which I very much can, then alpha players are not hitting their damage caps, and it slows down the entire trial/TF.

Yeah, you pretty much want to focus on buffing yourself and the scrappers/brutes/blappers otherwise you end up hurting the teams overall effectiveness. And yes, play it fast and very aggressive. 

 

  

17 hours ago, beradical said:

I'd honestly be ok dropping it entirely, how awful of a Kin does that make me? But what would I take instead? Aim isn't an awful choice for the AV fights where FS hits 1 target. A proc'd out Web Cocoon would add another slow, but still only 3rd best ST attack and loses ranged def + rech. So for now I'll keep SB as a set mule, maybe eventually start using it...

 

So its nice for the team, especially if you exemplar. It also gives some recharge and the ranged def bonus we need. You could take another hold and use basilisks gaze and then some other slotting changes to make up for the ranged def, but I think its best just to have it for the team. Just fire it off on someone when you refresh hasten and hope you can hit several people with it. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Darkir

[beradical]

14 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Went looking and yes Speed Boost and Increased Density both were turned into AoE buffs during issue 20 with only the damage resistance component of ID becoming an AoE buff, the rest of ID remained single target.  So you shouldn't need to catch everyone with Speed Boost.  Just select a teammate or two and you should catch anyone who hasn't gone off solo.

Oh, this is a game changer. Ok, Speed Boost is back on the docket, I'll work on building it into my habits. TYVM @Doomguide2005 and @Darkir

 

Edit: It appears I can also target friend through a mob! So I don't even have to change target to drop SB. Open fight with FS, end fight with SB, nuke in the middle.

Edited November 1, 2020 by beradical