Crazy Controllers 2021: Solo Khan, no temps, no insps (ill/therm)

[Olly]

Crazy Controllers 2021: Ill/Therm: Solo Khan TF, no temps, no insps

Spoiler

 

 

Here is my contribution to the crazy controllers genre. Inspired by @Frosticus, I sat down and looked for a build that wasn’t ill/cold that I thought could complete this. 

 

The primary constraint I was worried about was -regen, so that was my first requirement. */cold for controllers and defenders had benumb. Only 3 other powersets had similar powers: dark (Howling Twilight), rad (Lingering Rad) and thermal (Heat Exhaustion).

 

Made some builds, then hopped on Beta for testing. (Yeah those of you who say “but.. it’s Beta, it doesn’t count – that’s cool. You can try it on Live if you feel the need.)

 

I gave dark a shot, but soon realized that the standard cooldown of 180 sec. vs. cold’s and thermal’s 120 made it a non-starter for what I needed for Reichman. (fwiw, Benumb and Heat Exhaustion perma reduce his regen to ~0.2% when IO’d and applied).  Also, Dark’s Tier 9 didn’t really help with Reichsman.

 

So… on to thermal. The damage was horrendous. 3 builds later, I managed what I *thought* was sufficient damage output. Reichsman proceeds to cycle dull pain. Left me wondering if I needed more -recharge. Seems cold’s Sleet takes care of this handily, and baseline gave +15% more -recharge than therm’s comparable powers.

 

Hunted through powersets. Found a pool power (Force of Will) that looked workable on paper. Tested build #4, and still the same problem. Hopped on to the ill/cold variant I created, and tested that. No dull pain cycles. Hmmmm.  Or more like, #$@%! Thought hard. Thought about other Khan attempts on other builds. Had a theory. Hunted through epics and pool powers again. And… found the power I wanted in the ice mastery epics: snow storm.

 

Build #5 works well. No dull pain or at the least, very much reduced. But god was it dicey. A second or two of no dps on Reichsman would trigger it. Learning this in hours of testing…. One final tweak did it. Build #6 syncs PA and Phantasm at the expense of a bit of defense.  

 

It ”works” at the cost of an insane amount of time. Best guess is 1.5 hours per boss (the 5 with Reichsman), and then I recorded it at 2 hours for the last fight. I died once fighting the bosses, and the rest of the deaths were when I was too tired to hit up Reichsman and did it anyways. Took a short break, then hopped back on and beat him without any more deaths.

 

In any case, I wanted to add this build to the list of stupid controller tricks. I might have a go at other challenges. Curious how far I can take this fella. Definitely *not* gonna try Khan without lore pets though, I’ll leave that to ill/cold.

 

 

Keys to soloing the Khan TF:

• A power like Benumb, i.e. -200% regen, and base ~120 seconds recharge
• Aim to maintain dps on Reichsman at all times (even if it’s 1 point) to avoid the dull pain cycle. Your best bet is a click power like whirlwind, sleet, snow storm, rain of fire, a support temp toon, etc.
• Enough dps to burn him down. “Enough” means when he inevitably hits his invuln power, you can still dps him enough so he has a non-positive hp gain. So either he is getting -recharge and -regen debuffs up the wazoo, or getting hit pretty hard, or a mix of both.

 

The build*:

For some reason I’m ~39% defense in Reichman’s room during the fight, ~42% outside.

Incarnates: All T4: Assault Radial, Longbow Radial, Ageless Core, Cryonic Radial, Diamagnetic Radial, Musculature Core

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.2.19
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Thermal Radiation
Power Pool: Force of Will
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Spectral Wounds -- SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(3), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Warmth -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(9), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(13), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(34), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(36), NmnCnv-Heal(36)
Level 2: Blind -- GldNet-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(7), NrnSht-Dam%(7), GldJvl-Dam%(9), IndCom--Rchg%(11), UnbCns-Dam%(42)
Level 4: Mighty Leap -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel(13)
Level 6: Deceive -- CrcPrs-Conf%(A), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(15), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(17), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(17), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(19), CrcPrs-Conf(34)
Level 8: Superior Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 10: Thermal Shield -- ImpSki-Status(A)
Level 12: Boxing -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(29), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Hct-Acc/Rchg(31), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(34)
Level 14: Tough -- Ags-Psi/Status(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(15), StdPrt-ResKB(19), GldArm-3defTpProc(25)
Level 16: Weave -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(23), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(27), Rct-Def/Rchg(29), Rct-ResDam%(37)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(21), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(31), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 20: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 22: Weaken Resolve -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(25)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(27), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(37), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(39)
Level 28: Forge -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(40), GssSynFr--ToHit(43), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(45), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(46), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(48)
Level 30: Unleash Potential -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Phantasm -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), FrcFdb-Rechg%(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(39), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 35: Ice Blast -- PcnoftheT--Rchg%(A), ImpSwf-Dam%(40), Apc-Dam%(42), GldJvl-Dam%(42), Dcm-Build%(45), Thn-Acc/Dmg(45)
Level 38: Hibernate -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 41: Frozen Armor -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(43), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(43)
Level 44: Ice Storm -- Ann-ResDeb%(A), ImpSwf-Dam%(46), PcnoftheT--Rchg%(46), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(50), PstBls-Dam%(50), JvlVll-Dam%(50)
Level 47: Melt Armor -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), UndDfn-Rchg(48), UndDfn-DefDeb/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Heat Exhaustion -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(11)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Musculature Total Core Revamp 
------------

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Olly
Cleaned up mids build

[Coyote]

Why not try Illusion/Traps? Best -Regen in the game, an Immobilize to keep him from moving around, and Caltrops to do constant ticks of damage. Also stackable -Resist from Acid Mortar (but it can be defeated, so I'm not sure it'll survive near him for long even if he's focused on PA). But you can drop Mortar 20' away, then go into short range to drop Poison Trap, then back up to help DPS.

[Frosticus]

4 hours ago, Olly said:

It ”works” at the cost of an insane amount of time. Best guess is 1.5 hours per boss (the 5 with Reichsman), and then I recorded it at 2 hours for the last fight. I died once fighting the bosses, and the rest of the deaths were when I was too tired to hit up Reichsman and did it anyways. Took a short break, then hopped back on and beat him without any more deaths.

If nothing else you should get some sort of badge just for this. This encounter was perhaps the most boring challenge fight I've done and I was getting his generals to pop out every ~10 min  and then taking them down in 2 min or so.  Even that pace was so slow that I was struggling to maintain focus on the fight. 

 

Your commitment to this task is impressive.

[Olly]

9 hours ago, Coyote said:

Why not try Illusion/Traps? Best -Regen in the game, an Immobilize to keep him from moving around, and Caltrops to do constant ticks of damage. Also stackable -Resist from Acid Mortar (but it can be defeated, so I'm not sure it'll survive near him for long even if he's focused on PA). But you can drop Mortar 20' away, then go into short range to drop Poison Trap, then back up to help DPS.

A while back I tested +4/*8 ITF on ill/traps. Great damage, but I was constantly laying traps down (duh). Just wasn't my style. Prior to running Khan, I took the ill/therm through a+4/*8 ITF and it performed similar to the traps build I had made. But also because (a) I couldn't find enough -res and (b) I couldn't find info on how long the -regen lasted. I wanted something that was perma that wouldn't take up my a lot of time to set up. 

[Olly]

6 hours ago, Frosticus said:

Your commitment to this task is impressive.

Thanks. Something about Reichsman just makes me want to take him out back and beat the arrogance out of him. No srsly, I find it one of the toughest challenges, yet easy to test with. 

[Coyote]

22 minutes ago, Olly said:

But also because (a) I couldn't find enough -res and (b) I couldn't find info on how long the -regen lasted. I wanted something that was perma that wouldn't take up my a lot of time to set up. 

 

Poison Trap does take a while to activate unfortunately, but it's -1000% Regeneration for 40 seconds (30 for the gas, 10 second duration after leaving the gas). So it does shut down regeneration quite well.

Acid Mortar is only 20% -Resist, but it lasts 60 seconds with a 90 second base recharge, so it has good stackability. And with a 7.5 second cycle time and only 8' radius, it has a much better chance to proc two -Res procs on a target than Sleet.

Overall, I can see the set being a bit slow on a whole TF where you have to go spawn to spawn for a lot of spawns, but for one single fight it should be the best available. Well, except for not having -Special to lower healing, but if constant damage interrupts Khan's Dull Pain cycle, then that's even better.

[Olly]

@Coyote, suggest you have a go in Beta! As Frosticus mentioned in another thread, Khan is about a 15 min setup to get to the main boss. That and the freebies menu, one can test builds all day (or weeks) long.

[Hjarki]

2 hours ago, Coyote said:

Poison Trap does take a while to activate unfortunately, but it's -1000% Regeneration for 40 seconds (30 for the gas, 10 second duration after leaving the gas). So it does shut down regeneration quite well.

Acid Mortar is only 20% -Resist, but it lasts 60 seconds with a 90 second base recharge, so it has good stackability. And with a 7.5 second cycle time and only 8' radius, it has a much better chance to proc two -Res procs on a target than Sleet.

Overall, I can see the set being a bit slow on a whole TF where you have to go spawn to spawn for a lot of spawns, but for one single fight it should be the best available. Well, except for not having -Special to lower healing, but if constant damage interrupts Khan's Dull Pain cycle, then that's even better.

I've found this accurate on everything I've checked so far: https://cod.uberguy.net/html/index.html

 

According to the data there:

• Poison Trap has no 'initial' -regen. You just get -1000% Regeneration for 10 sec, which is refreshed if they remain in the gas.
• Acid Mortar grants -20% resist for 20 sec, fired every 6 sec. The Mortar itself will exist for 60 sec, but it's easily destroyed and it can be out-ranged.

[Coyote]

34 minutes ago, Olly said:

@Coyote, suggest you have a go in Beta! As Frosticus mentioned in another thread, Khan is about a 15 min setup to get to the main boss. That and the freebies menu, one can test builds all day (or weeks) long.

 

Hehe, if I were younger, I would... now I don't have the time to devote to these kinds of efforts. Doing a weekly TF for a Notice of the Well is probably as much as I can manage on most weeks 😞

That's why I'm a lot more theory than practice 😞

[Coyote]

24 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

According to the data there:

• Poison Trap has no 'initial' -regen. You just get -1000% Regeneration for 10 sec, which is refreshed if they remain in the gas.
• Acid Mortar grants -20% resist for 20 sec, fired every 6 sec. The Mortar itself will exist for 60 sec, but it's easily destroyed and it can be out-ranged.

 

Yes, but with Web Grenade you can keep the AV in the gas, which lasts for 30 seconds. So you end up with a 40 second total debuff if you keep the AV there. And often they won't move due to fighting with PA, in any case... you just need to stack 2 Web Grenades in the last 10 seconds of a PA's duration to keep them from moving when you switch PAs. So it's basically permanent Regeneration shut-down.

 

Acid Mortar is destroyable, true, but you keep it a distance away from the PAs and it won't get shot at. With a 60' range or so, it can easily avoid damage, you just have to move in for Poison Gas and out for the Mortar. It's a bit annoying, but with CJ you can jump-shoot Blind or SW while you're changing distances and not lose much damage.

[Olly]

On 2/13/2021 at 12:33 PM, Coyote said:

 

Hehe, if I were younger, I would... now I don't have the time to devote to these kinds of efforts. Doing a weekly TF for a Notice of the Well is probably as much as I can manage on most weeks 😞

That's why I'm a lot more theory than practice 😞

 

Damn. Beta testing doesn't take very long, and you can break it up into 2 segments: one for the build, one for the test. In any case, best of luck to ya.

 

On other Khan news: I tried a cold/sonic and thermal/sonic defender. Cold performed great, but my damage was anemic. Even with the -res from Sonic, I couldn't make a significant dent on Khan. My build is likely not optimal, but it doesn't seem the damage is sufficient for defenders. On the bright side, the debuffs are ridiculous and cold (or therm)/sonic would make one heck of a team player.

[oedipus_tex]

I seem to remember someone on live who ran dual boxed Cold/Sonic Defenders with sick results. The video I remember is him "accidentally" soloing some AV he'd just meant to annoy. This was eons ago, before the incarnate system, so not sure how it would do now. Might even have been before Illusion/Cold troller was possible.

I also wonder how Beam Rifle stands up to Sonic Attack on Defenders these days. Just at a glance it sure looks competitive, not sure if it turns into real actionable damage though. 

[Olly]

On 2/22/2021 at 12:52 AM, oedipus_tex said:

I also wonder how Beam Rifle stands up to Sonic Attack on Defenders these days. Just at a glance it sure looks competitive, not sure if it turns into real actionable damage though. 

 

I skipped Beam on account of wanting the -res on sonic vs. the -def on beam; and the redundant -recharge with Cold. Mostly because I am building specifically for the Khan TF. 

[srmalloy]

On 2/13/2021 at 6:22 AM, Olly said:

Thanks. Something about Reichsman just makes me want to take him out back and beat the arrogance out of him.

The image of Reichsman during Mender Ramiel's monologue in the last mission of his 'unlock Alpha slot' arc makes him look like a gorilla trying to cosplay as M. Bison; that's good enough reason for me.

[You]

So in terms of -regen for dealing with hard targets, can Trap compete with Cold and Thermal?

[SenkanYamato]

On 5/2/2021 at 10:21 PM, You said:

So in terms of -regen for dealing with hard targets, can Trap compete with Cold and Thermal?

I believe so.

 

Back in the day I was soloing an AV with my Traps/Sonic Defender and I believe I was able to hold the AV with Poison Trap.

 

Illusion/Traps would work quite well on an AV. Throw Phantom Army on the other side of him/her and run up stealthed from behind and lay your traps. 

[You]

A follow up question if I may: can TA handle hard content, AV or GM as well as those secondaries mentioned above?

[Psyonico]

There is currently a bug with TA where EMP Arrow doesn't do anything but the Faraday Cage for non-defenders, meaning you don't have any -regen.  Like I said, that's a bug, so once it gets fixed, the answer is "probably".  TA is a pretty solid debuffing set.

[Olly]

On 6/7/2021 at 5:42 AM, You said:

A follow up question if I may: can TA handle hard content, AV or GM as well as those secondaries mentioned above?

 

Short answer, the data says maybe. Holding all else equal:

Benumb (120 sec): -500% Regeneration for 30s (all affected targets)
Heat Exhaustion (120s): -500% Regeneration for 40s (all affected targets)
EMP Arrow (300 sec): -500% Regeneration for 45s (all affected targets)

 

The challenge is the recharge time of EMP arrow. With IO's and Incarnates, Benumb and HE can get down to 60 sec cast times, meaning you can keep the AV under this debuff for about 50%, with other -regen debuffs making it close to perma. So unless TA has some serious -res powers to make up that extra regen time, it wouldn't handle it as well.

 

[You]

7 hours ago, Olly said:

 

Short answer, the data says maybe. Holding all else equal:

Benumb (120 sec): -500% Regeneration for 30s (all affected targets)
Heat Exhaustion (120s): -500% Regeneration for 40s (all affected targets)
EMP Arrow (300 sec): -500% Regeneration for 45s (all affected targets)

 

The challenge is the recharge time of EMP arrow. With IO's and Incarnates, Benumb and HE can get down to 60 sec cast times, meaning you can keep the AV under this debuff for about 50%, with other -regen debuffs making it close to perma. So unless TA has some serious -res powers to make up that extra regen time, it wouldn't handle it as well.

 

In which case, a classic Ill/Rad seems to offer a better deal when comparing to TA.