Power pool suggestions

[Captain_Paragon]

Hey everyone, 

 

My suggestion is that maybe acrobatics from super jump power pool and hasten from the speed power pool become inherent.

 

Still able to slot. Still same old power. It just frees people to take the travel power they want theme wise and not be pigeon hold, into the one the build will be better off with. 

 

Also acrobatics would maybe take immobilize resistance out of combat jumping and put it in that power. Why does CJ get a free immob resist and no other pool?

 

Super speed would be given a combat speed power akin to athletic run but enhancable with +def and run speed etc. 

 

The slot where acrobatics has left. Not really thought that one through too much. But I'm sure we could collectively come up with something. 

 

 

On a side note....

In regards to new travel power pools mystic flight etc. I would add hover or combat jumping as well to the respective new travel pool. I feel they are underused because I have to get 2 power pools for one travel power. 

 

Just my example on my troller she has hover then mystic flight so 2 power pools are used for one travel pool. I understand there tier 4 is more powerful than the standard power pool. So while I think hover should be moved across to mystic flight. Maybe the combat travel powers are un-enhanceable? 

 

Not as sure on this idea but it's just my two cents. 

 

Looking forward to hearing some feedback 🙂

 

 

[Alchemystic]

Hard pass.

 

It's been discussed many many times before, and ultimately it homogenizes the game and opens up so many balance issues just because you want something for nothing. Players should have to make room in their build for powers like Hasten and Acrobatics (especially Acrobatics) because it's an investment; you're trading other potential power picks in order to optimise an aspect of your build.

[Normal Thomas]

Builds have already become pretty easy with inherent stamina. No need to make them any easier I think.

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, Captain_Paragon said:

hasten from the speed power pool become inherent

Hard pass.  Massive, massive balance issues would ensue as Recharge touches practically every click power in the game.

[Captain_Paragon]

44 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

Hard pass.

 

It's been discussed many many times before, and ultimately it homogenizes the game and opens up so many balance issues just because you want something for nothing. Players should have to make room in their build for powers like Hasten and Acrobatics (especially Acrobatics) because it's an investment; you're trading other potential power picks in order to optimise an aspect of your build.

Okay but why would a character i want fly on ultimately have to take super jump as well or instead of. It limits the way you play to a certain style of play. If you don't wanna take them out maybe make afterburner do the same once in combat . Why does super jump get it all? Immob resist, kb resist and hold resist? Atleast treat super speed and fly with the same principle. I would say TP too but  I'm unsure how that one would work. 

 

People that want to get the most out of a build get shoehorned into a style for certain "best" powers. It makes builds all look similar. Why should I lose out because I want my guy to be a super speeder or flying hero. Even a teleporting hero. Especially squishy ATs.

[twozerofoxtrot]

2 minutes ago, Captain_Paragon said:

People that want to get the most out of a build get shoehorned into a style for certain "best" powers. It makes builds all look similar.

This is generally true in just about every aspect of everything, even outside of the game.

 

Sure, I want zeppelins to be as good as stealth bombers, but they're not.

[Captain_Paragon]

7 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Hard pass.  Massive, massive balance issues would ensue as Recharge touches practically every click power in the game.

But it would be the exact same power. You still need to slot. Also could leave it out of tray if you don't want to use it. I know some people don't want hasten in there build thats fine just don't drop it in your power tray. 

 

Imo it makes builds open up and gives a little more variety to build options. 

[Doc_Scorpion]

44 minutes ago, Captain_Paragon said:

But it would be the exact same power.

Ok, and...  that addresses the issues that I and others have raised...  how, exactly?

[Captain_Paragon]

51 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

This is generally true in just about every aspect of everything, even outside of the game.

 

Sure, I want zeppelins to be as good as stealth bombers, but they're not.

I don't understand this reply. Are you saying we can't change the game. Like we can't change physics?

[Captain_Paragon]

4 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Ok, and...  that addresses the issues that I and others have raised...  how, exactly?

What are the issues u raised exactly because I feel I addressed them in my previous post. Its the same power. 

[Alchemystic]

9 minutes ago, Captain_Paragon said:

What are the issues u raised exactly because I feel I addressed them in my previous post. Its the same power. 

Lets put this real simple.

 

When you pick Hasten, you are making a choice to take that power over something else, because it is beneficial to you.

If you are given Hasten, you are able to circumvent that 'trade' and receive it for free, thus causing characters to become unbalanced.

 

That's the same of all Pool Powers, they are options that improve certain aspects of your character by potentially giving up others.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Tyrannical

[SeraphimKensai]

I'm a little bit old school...

how about we take away the fitness pool inherent and have everyone waste three power picks to get stamina again?

 

Or perhaps, you get to choose which power pool you have as an inherent power pool? That way you can have the whole leaping pool or medicine pool, etc. as an inherent, but then you don't get fitness pool for free.

[Alchemystic]

1 minute ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I'm a little bit old school...

how about we take away the fitness pool inherent and have everyone waste three power picks to get stamina again?

 

Or perhaps, you get to choose which power pool you have as an inherent power pool? That way you can have the whole leaping pool or medicine pool, etc. as an inherent, but then you don't get fitness pool for free.

Because all Fitness amounted to was a bunch of passive powers that increase your base stats, the other Pool Powers have greater functionality.

[Captain_Paragon]

24 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

Lets put this real simple.

 

When you pick Hasten, you are making a choice to take that power over something else, because it is beneficial to you.

If you are given Hasten, you are able to circumvent that 'trade' and receive it for free, thus causing characters to become unbalanced.

 

That's the same of all Pool Powers, they are options that improve certain aspects of your character by potentially giving up others.

Ok I understand but people seem to be getting stuck on hasten. My point was more the fact super jump becomes the most potent travel power for squishy ATs that don't get mez protection. Hasten was added as I feel most characters gets it and thus makes builds less diverse and more standard. Taking the option out of the way means you can try more power pools. 

 

If you feel hasten would make things unbalanced thats your opinion and I get it. You could argue Incarnate stuff has made the game unbalanced but I'm not here to debate that. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Captain_Paragon
Spelling

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, Captain_Paragon said:

What are the issues u raised exactly because I feel I addressed them in my previous post. Its the same power. 

Scroll back up and read what I posted, and then compare it to what you posted.  How can you "feel" you addressed the issue of balance when your reply didn't mention it at all?
 

1 hour ago, Captain_Paragon said:

If you feel hasten would make things unbalanced thats your opinion and I get it

Getting back a power pick (by having Hasten become inherent), getting back a pool choice (same reason), and getting an impactful power for free will significantly alter the balance of the game.

That's not an opinion.  That's a stone cold fact, as certain as gravity. 

That's why we're getting "stuck" on Hasten.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Doc_Scorpion

[twozerofoxtrot]

1 hour ago, Captain_Paragon said:

I don't understand this reply. 

 

Then you don't understand your own argument. I'm not trying to be mean; if you have a point you're trying to make you need to fully understand the context in which you're operating.

 

You're saying "why should I lose out if I want to do X?" with you having defined "missing out" as not choosing the optimal power sets for combat when you would also like to choose the optimal sets for convenience.

 

But there is always going to be a "best way" to do something. Everywhere, not just in the game: my example alluding to both Zeppelins and Stealth Bombers having the capacity for areal bombardment but one obviously being better than the other. Maybe that was a bad analogy.
 

The bottom line is, you need to make a choice somewhere. If that's taken away, then we're literally all playing the same hero, and that means none of us are super anymore.

 

 

[Alchemystic]

2 hours ago, Captain_Paragon said:

My point was more the fact super jump becomes the most potent travel power for squishy ATs that don't get mez protection. Hasten was added as I feel most characters gets it and thus makes builds less diverse and more standard. Taking the option out of the way means you can try more power pools. 

 

I feel like you're missing every point that's being made here...

 

I'll reiterate; Hasten (or any other Pool Power) being given away for free creates balance problems, because you have to make the choice to get it and not another power. Removing that choice means all characters are inherently more powerful and it will trivialise the game. Powers have value, that's why you have to choose which are the most valuable to you with the allotted amount you're given, you cant have everything you want.

 

As for the Leaping Power Pool, you arent forced to take Super Jump, you can opt to take both Combat Jumping and Jump Kick and still gain access to Acrobatics.

 

On the topic of that... Making Acrobatics inherent is arguably worse than making Hasten an inherent, because its three power picks to get it instead of just one. If you want it that badly, unfortunately you gotta make sacrifices to get it.

 

And not to sound harsh, but if you're having problems playing 'squishy ATs', or you refuse to compromise when making power choices, expecting the game to change to suit you isn't the way to go about it.. you just need to work on a better build.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Tyrannical

[Captain Paragon]

1 hour ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

Then you don't understand your own argument. I'm not trying to be mean; if you have a point you're trying to make you need to fully understand the context in which you're operating.

 

You're saying "why should I lose out if I want to do X?" with you having defined "missing out" as not choosing the optimal power sets for combat when you would also like to choose the optimal sets for convenience.

 

But there is always going to be a "best way" to do something. Everywhere, not just in the game: my example alluding to both Zeppelins and Stealth Bombers having the capacity for areal bombardment but one obviously being better than the other. Maybe that was a bad analogy.
 

The bottom line is, you need to make a choice somewhere. If that's taken away, then we're literally all playing the same hero, and that means none of us are super anymore.

 

 

Well maybe the idea of having the Acro and Hasten as a inherent has opened a can of worms that i did not foresee. My main gripe is that Super Jump gets all forms of mez resist. My initial idea was  go with inherent without thinking of some of the concerns you guys have come up with. What i would propose then is bringing all original travel powers into line so that no one in particular is the better choice and that we can choose which our character theme most fits. So for example (this is just a quick idea) also going to leave teleport out.

 

Super speed 

lvl 4 hasten

lvl 4 Flurry

lvl 4 Super speed

lvl 14 burnout

lvl14 Speed Freak (first name I can think of)

 

and while speed freak is activated Super Speed get an ability to run up walls much like DCUO but when in combat provides the same buff as acro and combat jumping (So KB resist Hold Resist and immob resist) Maybe also give you an ability similar to athletic run in which you can slot for def and run speed.

 

Super Jump

lvl4 jump kick

lvl4 combat jumping

lvl 4 super jump

lvl 14 spring attack

lvl 14 acro

 

So i would remove immob resist from CJ and add it to acro. Then to make acro in line with speed freak i would add a double jump feature so that it has a use out of combat with SJ and in combat you have mez resist.

 

Flight

lvl 4 hover

lvl4 Air Supiority

lvl 4 fly

lvl 14 group fly

lvl14 afterburner

 

Afterburner would stay the same but instead remove just affecting self. Add a suppression that if attacked (and hit) or you attack maybe a 10-15sec. wait to reapply +def and +flight speed.

However if hover is activated while after burner is on the def is gone and KB, Hold and Immob resist is active.

 

That way all Travel powers are the same (not really sure how you do this to TP) and feel equal but also their own flavour.

 

Also im open to taking away Afterburners +def as I know this could get exploited

 

So scrap the inherent idea and maybe just realign travel powers so we can have acrobatics in some shape or form no matter what travel power we prefer. Thoughts?

 

 

**Sorry didn't realise i have logged into my other account on my pc** It is the same Captain Paragon

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Captain Paragon
words and stupidity

[Outrider_01]

Protip:  Every pool is different for a reason :  They are different.

 

Squishy have no mez protection for a reason:  They are squishy.  They give up resists for ranged attacks, buffs, or debuffs.  

 

Of course, you forgot something about acrobatics.  ITs called Burnout.  Yes, I went their for a reason because its the other power pool.  You want mez protection in a toggle, what about Burn out to auto reset your powers?  Both are very valuable, lets make them inherent or just give every power pool an auto reset ability.

 

As for CJ, its defense is piddly and its more vertical then forward momentum.  Surprisingly, that thing called immobilize and minus jump that tends to be in every power with immobilize makes CJ unique.  Move the -immobilize to acrobatics and now CJ is worthless except for pushing you over 45% defense and LoTG IO, IO bonuses not being a factor as the power is built around SO.

 

All travel power pools cannot be the same, they are unique methods of travel with unique bonus powers starting on the third selection.  Homogenize them, now there is nothing special about them.  Ultimately the biggest thing about CoH unlike other games is you can drastically customize your character....you just can't have it all.

[arcane]

15 hours ago, Captain_Paragon said:

Okay but why would a character i want fly on ultimately have to take super jump as well or instead of. It limits the way you play to a certain style of play. If you don't wanna take them out maybe make afterburner do the same once in combat . Why does super jump get it all? Immob resist, kb resist and hold resist? Atleast treat super speed and fly with the same principle. I would say TP too but  I'm unsure how that one would work. 

 

People that want to get the most out of a build get shoehorned into a style for certain "best" powers. It makes builds all look similar. Why should I lose out because I want my guy to be a super speeder or flying hero. Even a teleporting hero. Especially squishy ATs.

There is not one power in the game I have on every character. No such thing as a mandatory power.

[arcane]

Also hardly any non-PvP builds still take acrobatics these days so it’s hardly even  in the running for “powers closest to being essential.”

[Alchemystic]

I'll point out I'm not against easing the access to certain pool powers like Acrobatics, or even merging the functionality of certain powers together (like we've seen with Teleportation), and I have a feeling other Power Pools may receive the same treatment in the near future.

[AerialAssault]

Pass on this one.

 

Giving everyone 9 points of KB protection is a criminally bad idea. I don't buy "well don't use it" as a counterpoint when the original post makes out that it's 'too good not to take'. If it's too good not to take, then why not use it at any given chance? You have to assume that if it is given, it will be used. At that point, you may as well remove KB from enemies altogether.

 

If you're struggling with KB I'd suggest slotting 1, maybe 2 Steadfast Protection enhancements (you can also use Blessing of the Zephyr. You're probably not multi-slotting your travel power unless you're making a meme build). You do give up two enhancement slots, but compared to three power slots that's an easy deal to make. If you need more than 2 then your build is probably not cut out for taking on harder difficulties.