Empathy ideas

[Doomguide2005]

30 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Oh, I like the big boost in additional healing while Regen Aura is up, but that's fair.

May be a playstyle thing too.  My Emps can be very aggressive especially while their Auras are up and getting smacked is almost a certainty on most PuGs.  I use inspires, mez, teammates and if available epic shields but to date rarely come anywhere near the softcap when it comes to mitigation except on specific purpose builds (typically I build for recharge).  Being unable to heal would be risky, and even moreso if Regen Aura was down or dropped while unable to heal.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Doomguide2005
Clarity

[Rylas]

On 4/21/2021 at 9:09 PM, Wavicle said:

I know a lot of people probably don't think Empathy needs a buff at all, and I agree that it doesn't need much, so my suggestions aren't all that over the top, I think.

 

My goal here is to provide constructive feedback, but I have to laugh a little here when you say it doesn't need much buff, but then go on to suggest some really strong buffs. It might make sense to explain why any buffs are needed in the first place.

 

On 4/21/2021 at 9:09 PM, Wavicle said:

1. Casting Resurrect on a fallen ally automatically applies (unslotted) Fortitude and Clear Mind to the target.

2. Clear Mind duration increased to 3 minutes.

3. Fortitude casts as an AoE that effects up to 6 allies. Duration, recharge, and end cost unchanged. 

4. Casting Adrenalin Boost gives the Caster 100% +Recharge for 20 seconds.

 

 

1. If the goal is to buy the ally some time to be able to reorient themself for the fight, then I'd maybe suggest some amount of absorb be given when resurrected, but Fort is a bit overkill. 

 

2. Why the increase? If it's about saving time, seems like making CM a target based AoE buff makes more sense. Though, I'm sure that would have to have its numbers adjusted down to make it balanced. That, or non-targeted teammates get a slightly reduced buff. 

 

3. That's a huge buff. And no change to its recharge or end cost?? Whenever I play an EMP, Fortitude has a ton of efficient use just by applying it to the right team mates. I've never felt it wasn't doing enough. What's the justification here?

 

4. Again, I have to ask why. What is AB not doing that you think it should be? I can cast it on someone, usually whoever is tanking, and pay little to no attention to them afterward. Sometimes it means I don't have to apply Fortitude to that person. That kind of management boost opens up a lot of my resources, why should I get a recharge boost as well?

[Rylas]

[deleted]

Edited April 26, 2021 by Rylas

[Rylas]

[deleted]

Edited April 26, 2021 by Rylas

[WindDemon21]

Empathy doesn't need much of a buff, but some:

 

CM: Add psy resistance. Lets you slot resist sets, and honestly i always thought it was weird that it DIDN'T already have this since it makes perfect thematic sense. Change it to an aoe like increase density is.

 

Absorb Pain: Needs replaced entirely. This is the biggest area where it needs help. My suggestion would be to replace it with a pet similar to galvanic sentinel, that instead does healing aura or maybe something like the pain heal toggle, maybe has a psy dot aura or something like that to help empathy solo by taking aggro for the emp and to buff keep alive. Perhaps a small -damage/-regen debuff too on it or as an aura as well. Ball of Empathy or something like that.

[Oklahoman]

My first 50 back on live was an Empathy defender, and I still love playing a copy of him from time to time. The game has changed a lot since then, though.

 

The #1 thing I would like to see changed in Empathy is rez should be the best in the game, IMO. I'd like to see it rez multiple characters at once - ally targeted AoE, and I like the idea of some kind of Absorb shield.

 

49 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Absorb Pain: Needs replaced entirely. This is the biggest area where it needs help. My suggestion would be to replace it with a pet similar to galvanic sentinel, that instead does healing aura or maybe something like the pain heal toggle, maybe has a psy dot aura or something like that to help empathy solo by taking aggro for the emp and to buff keep alive. Perhaps a small -damage/-regen debuff too on it or as an aura as well. Ball of Empathy or something like that.

 

I also like this idea - Doctors Assistant. 

[Mr Pierce]

If we're making changes to Empathy, I think we should start with the two RAs. Back on live, there was a time when RAs were able to be made perma. Then at some point they decided they hated that, for whatever reason, and nerfed the recharge into the ground. What I would like to see is a major nerf to their strength, but the ability to make them perma again. Don't make it too easy. Have it be something like 240 seconds, where you really have to invest in recharge to get them perma. I think that would make Empathy a bit better overall.

[WindDemon21]

2 hours ago, Mr Pierce said:

If we're making changes to Empathy, I think we should start with the two RAs. Back on live, there was a time when RAs were able to be made perma. Then at some point they decided they hated that, for whatever reason, and nerfed the recharge into the ground. What I would like to see is a major nerf to their strength, but the ability to make them perma again. Don't make it too easy. Have it be something like 240 seconds, where you really have to invest in recharge to get them perma. I think that would make Empathy a bit better overall.

I would be happy with that too, at least for the recovery aura. Regen aura I wouldn't want to have it's amount nerfed.

[Doomguide2005]

2 hours ago, Mr Pierce said:

If we're making changes to Empathy, I think we should start with the two RAs. Back on live, there was a time when RAs were able to be made perma. Then at some point they decided they hated that, for whatever reason, and nerfed the recharge into the ground. What I would like to see is a major nerf to their strength, but the ability to make them perma again. Don't make it too easy. Have it be something like 240 seconds, where you really have to invest in recharge to get them perma. I think that would make Empathy a bit better overall.

     You wouldn't really need much change in the recharge of the Auras to reach perma state.  240 second recharge would easily become perma on an IO build.  Most of my builds are sitting around 130 seconds or so as I recall (about 30 to 40 sec gap in coverage).  99% of late game builds can handle ~ 30 sec of no outside endurance support in 99% of content.  Now at low levels pre IO that would be very helpful.

[arcane]

You’re not going to get much traction removing Absorb Pain entirely. Too many people like it. Steer clear of those kinds of suggestions if wanting to see ideas taken seriously.

[Doomguide2005]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

You’re not going to get much traction removing Absorb Pain entirely. Too many people like it. Steer clear of those kinds of suggestions if wanting to see ideas taken seriously.

Is it just the size of the Heal?  What makes it attractive to those that do take and use it?

Edit:  low endurance cost?

Edited April 27, 2021 by Doomguide2005

[Naraka]

11 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Is it just the size of the Heal?  What makes it attractive to those that do take and use it?

Doesn't it have, like 0 END cost and recharge relatively fast for the huge heal it provides?

 

 

[Doomguide2005]

20 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Doesn't it have, like 0 END cost and recharge relatively fast for the huge heal it provides?

 

 

Yes end cost is really low (0.52), essentially free.  Cast time and time before effect though are pretty much identical to HO and HA.  I can see the end cost as attractive but (big but) if my Regen Aura is running my Recovery Aura is as well basically trivializing end cost anyway and if Regen Aura is down those downsides can get ugly if you're under attack.  But like I said above may come down to playstyle.  

 

No advantage in range either.

 

Edit:  AP recharge 15 sec, HO at 4 sec and HA at 8 sec.

 

Edit 2:  and of course there's all the levels where you can have AP and not have Regen Aura available.  Potentially a spread of 24 levels.  

Edited April 27, 2021 by Doomguide2005
Afterthoughts

[WindDemon21]

2 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Yes end cost is really low (0.52), essentially free.  Cast time and time before effect though are pretty much identical to HO and HA.  I can see the end cost as attractive but (big but) if my Regen Aura is running my Recovery Aura is as well basically trivializing end cost anyway and if Regen Aura is down those downsides can get ugly if you're under attack.  But like I said above may come down to playstyle.  

 

No advantage in range either.

 

Edit:  AP recharge 15 sec, HO at 4 sec and HA at 8 sec.

 

Edit 2:  and of course there's all the levels where you can have AP and not have Regen Aura available.  Potentially a spread of 24 levels.  

If absorb pain was to stay, it would definitely need that -heal to go away which is a big part of what hurts it. You can also get off 2 heal others in about the time absorb pain takes too it feels like so it's relatively pointless in the set for the most part. After healing aura, heal other, fortitude, regen aura, and AB, you have more than enough stuff to keep a single target alive, so absorb pain becomes relatively useless. If someone likes it, I personally judge that they don't know how to slot and use the rest of empathy properly.

 

If it is to stay relatively the same as it is, remove the -heal, and I would say to increase the recharge to 30 seconds, and add a max HP buff to it like a dull pain (which frostwork in cold really needs to do too outside of also changing it to a perma-able pbaoe buff IMO, being both heal, and max hp) or an absorb over time effect similar to a single target wild bastion. It should also have the heal go into effect at the very start of the activation, rather than towards the end.

[Doomguide2005]

     @WindDemon21I largely agree.   It has been a long time since I even included AP in my theoretical Mids builds.  I can spam HO as fast as is possible (about 3 times as fast as AP assuming equal recharge ... which may be a bad assumption about AP's slotting).  HO ×3 is basically a 787 heal, AP is a 669 heal.  So HO is sort of like a 3 pulse DoT heal in the time I fire off and recharge AP.  I can spam HO roughly 8 times in 20 seconds.  I can do AP roughly 3 times in 20 seconds.  Why pick 20 seconds as a reference point, because that's the duration of the Heal and Regen debuffs in AP.  Those debuffs in AP stack.  Fortunately as long as Regen Aura is running only the Heal resistance is significant. (Edit: and 100% is as bad as it gets so really only resets the debuff duration)

    And fyi unless CoD is incorrect the time before effect is identical on HO and AP, fairly up front and quick at 0.833 seconds out of 2.267 animation time as is the cast time of 2.27 seconds.

    But I asked so as to get an idea of how one might tweak it so those that do like and use it  would still see it as desirable while hopefully making it a possible choice for those who think it is eminently skippable currently.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Doomguide2005

[arcane]

@America's Angel think you’ll do this justice better than me