Is Empathy Dead?

[Redheadrocket]

anyone have a good hami emp build?

 

[Doomguide2005]

2 hours ago, Redheadrocket said:

anyone have a good hami emp build?

 

     No idea been too long since I've done a Hami raid and I don't know if any of my Emps have ever done one.   Pretty sure unless it requires having Resurrect in the build my only level appropriate Empath on HC could do it whatever 'it' is.  

[Seldom]

23 hours ago, Redheadrocket said:

anyone have a good hami emp build?

 

 

Since both mending myto and hami blasts turn off the ability to be healed, as well as bringing -regen, the best powers are anything that can bring +absorb, +hp,+regen. Heals are almost useless during the encounter.

 

Fortitude is almost worthless in the raid due to most tanks who need a hami healer only taunting from range, so +tohit/+damage is pointless, and no defense/resistance works against hami damage. Only +HP/absorb gets around that stuff.

On the other hand, adrenalin boost fully slotted for +regen is very good, as are both regeneration/recovery aura. Those are strong enough to not only overcome the -regen, but if the tank has Essence of Earth going, they mitigate any damage coming in. To have those up ASAP, build exclusively around +recharge bonuses.

 

If you are building a dedicated hami healer, sorcery, medicine, and experimentation have pools you usually might overlook:

Field medic is very handy to allow you to heal yourself
Spirit ward is the only way you as an empath will have access to absorb on a tank

Experimental Injection will let you stack even more +regeneration

Edited June 18, 2021 by Barneysaurus

[Shadow Metal]

I'm laughing reading these comments.

 

I can't imagine the number of people on this page that were about to go down that got caught by a thrown heal that kept them on their feet, so that they didn't need to turn all their toggles back on, and gave credit to an inspiration they clicked too late.

 

It's true. Most well built toons on an eight person team doing regular missions or a speed tf on +0 don't need me. I find it pretty boring to be on those teams. However, any time I'm doing something that's actually hard, those toons are not as invincible as they think they are.

 

Empathy can carry a bad team. You won't get credit, and they'll write threads about how unneeded you are, but they're wrong. Especially the "no tank needed" teams. Most of the time they don't. But as soon as they get hit once or twice, they're face down in the dirt.

 

Let's be honest. The vast majority of builds are: run to mob, push a chain of buttons, repeat. With the tankier builds, it's stand there and repeat. Empathy with super speed trying keep a group of mavericks that each require their own fresh mob and are barely keeping their feet is a harder challenge than anything else in the game.

 

There is the argument that emps aren't doing much in the way of damage. Aside from lore and judgment, I cycle through two attacks, but only when the team is stable, and they're interrupted by healing aura that is auto cast every three seconds. But that's not taking into account all those teammates who would be out of endurance if not for your buffs, or the people who would have gone down if not for the saving heal, or the people who can't rez themselves, plus the time it takes to re-up toggles. All not attacking.

 

Please don't take any of this as an insult, but if you think empathy isn't a good end game set, you've either never played it or played it poorly. I also guarantee you've stayed upright because you were being consistently healed while you were cycling through your chain, and never realized the EMP kept you alive.

 

Trust me. You're not watching the EMP, but they're watching you...

[Hjarki]

18 minutes ago, Shadow Metal said:

I can't imagine the number of people on this page that were about to go down that got caught by a thrown heal that kept them on their feet, so that they didn't need to turn all their toggles back on, and gave credit to an inspiration they clicked too late.

The issue isn't whether or not groups can benefit from a 'healer'. The issue is that Empathy isn't very good in this role compared to 'healer' sets like Electrical, Thermal, Pain and Nature.

[Raddy]

Often in these discussion, especially with the scapegoat that is Empathy these days, the conversation is always how “relevant” a powerset is. A well played Empathy Defender is far and above more useful than a poorly played any-other-defender and the same can be said of any AT - whilst yes, healing is not seen as overly relevant in end game  this is another generalisation that Empathy is a “healer only powerset” - it isn’t. 
 

People play CoH in many ways, and on my server ‘end game’ content is run once a week, not every day, and as such is not exactly crucial to keep in mind. There is more to this 20 year old game than what’s considered the current best spec.
 

Everything is viable, and your own enjoyment is essentially the most important thing when considering powerset choices. Empathy is not dead, and it is absolutely valid to enjoy the powerset. 

[euNoir]

On 5/27/2021 at 1:52 AM, Psyonico said:

Empathy is and always was only "King" to those that don't know how City mechanics work.  Debuffs/Buffs > Heals.

 

That being said, it still amazes me how many times on a PuG I'll see "Nice Heals."  Recently was on a pug with one of my TA toons and the only other support character was a stormie (who did have O2 boost).  I was amazed at how many times the heals were complimented, even though the team wasn't taking that much damage to begin with.

 

Anyway, I digress, back to Empathy.   It's a fine set, offers some nice buffs, but people focus on it as a healing set (which, admittedly, it does do well).  If you want to play as a crutch, then Empathy/Pain are great choices.  But Empathy isn't a top tier set.  With a top tier emp build you can turn a couple of your teammates into nigh-immortal beings, but you can't get Fortitude perma on a team of 8 and AB is only permable on 1 character.

 

 

In 2009, I created a build - that is still viable now - that could pop Fort on the entire team and maintain it on all of those people for the entire TF (excepting myself of course, so you're technically right) but let's assume you meant the other 7 members of your team - because that would be reasonable. I could also very nearly get AB on 2 characters perma. I bet I could do it now.

[Wavicle]

Short answer: No.

 

Empathy is, and has always been, the number 1 most popular buff set in the game, despite not being the strongest.

[Doomguide2005]

14 hours ago, euNoir said:

 

 

In 2009, I created a build - that is still viable now - that could pop Fort on the entire team and maintain it on all of those people for the entire TF (excepting myself of course, so you're technically right) but let's assume you meant the other 7 members of your team - because that would be reasonable. I could also very nearly get AB on 2 characters perma. I bet I could do it now.

No not permanently.  Well maybe you could do it for one cycle or so by using Burnout.  But at the recharge cap the cool down is 60 sec.  It would need to be about 45 seconds to keep perma on two targets.  7 Forts is doable but holy exhaustion.  At the recharge cap Fort is ready in about 12 seconds and you need to cast it every 17 seconds to complete a cycle of 7 in Forts duration of 120 sec.  Doesn't leave much time for anything else ... like CM, your Auras or AB to also be targeted and cast.  Pretty sure this will require a very unusual amount of stay together discipline from your teammates to have the proverbial snowball's chance).  All times are on the back of a napkin and lack all sorts of details like animation times, arcanatime etc., i.e. more math than my old brain can handle anymore.

 

[Wavicle]

47 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

No not permanently.  Well maybe you could do it for one cycle or so by using Burnout.  But at the recharge cap the cool down is 60 sec.  It would need to be about 45 seconds to keep perma on two targets.  7 Forts is doable but holy exhaustion.  At the recharge cap Fort is ready in about 12 seconds and you need to cast it every 17 seconds to complete a cycle of 7 in Forts duration of 120 sec.  Doesn't leave much time for anything else ... like CM, your Auras or AB to also be targeted and cast.  Pretty sure this will require a very unusual amount of stay together discipline from your teammates to have the proverbial snowball's chance).  All times are on the back of a napkin and lack all sorts of details like animation times, arcanatime etc., i.e. more math than my old brain can handle anymore.

 

Even just keeping Fort on 5 people and AB not perma but just up a lot is damn good and doesn’t require crazy investments or maths.

[Videra]

On 3/16/2024 at 6:59 PM, Shadow Metal said:

Snip

Yeah sure buddy the Empathy defender is the thing that's saving me, not the fact that dwarf drain is in my animation cancelling chain or that I can cast sublimation simultaneously with restore essence.

It's Definitely The Useless Empathy Defender Who Hasn't Put Fortitude On Anyone.

[macskull]

On 3/16/2024 at 3:59 PM, Shadow Metal said:

but if you think empathy isn't a good end game set, you've either never played it or played it poorly

lol

 

You necroed a two and a half year old thread for that? 2.5/10, needs more effort

Edited March 22 by macskull

[Indystruck]

On 3/16/2024 at 5:59 PM, Shadow Metal said:

I'm laughing reading these comments.

 

I can't imagine the number of people on this page that were about to go down that got caught by a thrown heal that kept them on their feet, so that they didn't need to turn all their toggles back on, and gave credit to an inspiration they clicked too late.

 

 

Other sets capable of doing this:

 

Electrical Affinity

Kinetics

Pain Domiantion

Poison

Radiation Emission

Thermal Radiation

Time Manipulation

Storm Summoning

Dark Miasma

Nature Affinity

 

Edited March 22 by Indystruck

[macskull]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/492043333

 

Hey look, here's an example of a "healer" being actually useful.

[Doomguide2005]

9 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Even just keeping Fort on 5 people and AB not perma but just up a lot is damn good and doesn’t require crazy investments or maths.

Kind of the point I was driving at.  7 is possible yes but I'm happy to keep 4 or so covered along with the rest of my buffs as appropriate.  Usually perma AB is no problem as that's how GM's are expected to work when teamed (Fort the next 2 Emps and AB on the next in the team list).  Granted the 'extra' ~100% recharge will come from global bonuses these days while not on a GM team (discounting Hasten typically as it's also a requirement of the build) but with set IOs never mind Incarnates that's really not an issue.