Mastermind Pet Summoning QOL issues that should be fixed

[plainguy]

This started as one thing but it was than one issue.

 

Some QOL issues based around pet summoning in combat.

 

ISSUE

1. When you summon the pet there is a 5 second delay after the pet appearing and you being able to target the pet for an upgrade. 

• I am guessing this was placed for some server side sync issue. 

The problem is the pet is still attackable by mobs and takes damage and can be killed.  

End result Re-Summoning in the middle of a fight sometimes ends up giving you pets which are half damaged by the time you target them and do both upgrades.. 

Some possible ideas to fix..

• Give the pets some sort of immunity timer when the player has aggro or whatever the system denotes the player is in combat.  This way you can summon a pet and do both upgrades without having to worry about getting the pets killed again or being defenseless during the spawning of the summon.

 

 

ISSUE

2. When upgrading a pet there is a moment it freezes and go into its upgrade animation mode ( about 3 seconds ). In combat this is detrimental to the pets and players survival.  Basically the pet can't fight back but can still take a bunch of hits.  It might not sound like a big deal. But you have to cast 2 upgrades . 

• When combining the 2 pet upgrade delays with the above summon issue you have many seconds of inactivity where the pets are defenseless. 
• Pet upgrade requires pet to be targeted.

 

Some possible ideas to fix..

• One upgrade to rule them all. The systems sees you have both pet upgrades in your build and gives you both upgrades when casting one. 
• Some players for whatever reason do not use both upgrades. Create a one upgrade option, command, Macro ? 
• Remove the upgrade animation if the player is tagged in combat to stop the pets from freezing and not fighting when in combat.
• Remove the target requirement from Mastermind pet upgrades..
• Make the pet upgrade(s) a visible / invisible Massive AOE.

 

In a nutshell as this game is based around combat..
A Mastermind is in a extremely bad position when you have to re-summon pets when in the middle of a fight. Because you are literally either clicking 1 to 3 pets and 2 upgrades. Which means between clicking the 1 to 3 pet summons and the delay of targeting ( mind you I am aware if you are summoning 3 pets that delay will be almost gone by the time you click the 2 upgrades ) and then add in 2 upgrades which cause the pets to freeze.  You are talking a lot of seconds ( 5 second for summon delay and about 3 per upgrade ) where there is not DPS output..  And there is no Immunity from incoming DPS.

 

Before anyone thinks of minimizes this.. Go stand in the middle of a bunch of mobs for 8 to 10 seconds and do nothing with limited or no defense ( I do not know what the pets inherit defenses and resistances are ). I do understand for some builds it is not an issue. But overall  my point is you will not come out unscathed and some instances even require a trip to the hospital. 

 

 

[SmalltalkJava]

I'd be up for something like this.   The T1 pets have it worst due to their level difference which makes their small inherent def/resists practically non-existent.  Combine that with low HP it makes mid combat re-summon tough for sure.   Heck a temp def/resist boost for about 5 seconds at summon would work to some degree, what ever the actual blank/unresponsive time frame is.     I run /nature and even with its +absorb and strong cc, it can be a challenge to get a good combat resummon going.   

 

Greedy throw in:  While we are on the pets issue.  I'd like them to get the pet "Attack" command to work off of passthrough targeting like normal skill attacks do.  🙂

 

 

Anyways, Here is the latest info that i have for baseline resists/def for pets.

 

Spoiler

 

Beast Mastery

Howlers:

• 11% AOE/Ranged/Melee Defense
• 18% Smash/Lethal/Cold Resist
• -33.33% Confuse Duration
• +2.0 Confuse Protection
• +7.16 mph Run Speed
• +25% Recharge Resist

Lions + Dire Wolf

• 12% AOE/Ranged/Melee Defense
• 29% Smash/Lethal/Cold Resist
• -33.33% Confuse Duration
• +2.0 Confuse Protection
• +7.16 mph Run Speed
• +25% Recharge Resist

 

Demon Summoning

Demonlings:

• 25% Smash/Lethal Resist
• 37% Fire or Toxic or Cold Resist (each demonling gets one based on type)
• 12% Fire/Toxic/Cold Resist (whichever two they're not strongest against)
• -33.33% Terrorize Duration
• +4.0 Terrorize Protection
• +1.0 Stun Protection

Ember Demon

• 37% Fire Resist
• 24% Smash/Lethal/Toxic Resist
• 12% Cold Resist
• -33.33% Terrorize Duration
• +4.0 Terrorize Protection
• Grants Ember Shield to all summoned demons, including itself (+10% Smash/Lethal/Toxic Resist, +13% Fire Resist, +6% Cold Resist)

Hellfire Gargoyle

• 37% Toxic Resist
• 31% Smash/Lethal Resist
• 24% Fire Resist
• 12% Cold Resist
• -33.33% Sleep/Terrorize Duration
• +4.0 Sleep/Terrorize Protection
• +1.0 Stun Protection

Demon Prince:

• 19% Cold Defense
• 14% Smash/Lethal Defense
• 9% Fire Defense
• 19% Cold/Toxic Resist
• 17% Smash/Lethal Resist
• 7% Fire Resist
• -33.33% Confuse/Terrorize/Sleep Duration
• +4.0 Sleep/Terrorize Protection
• +2.0 Confuse Protection

 

Mercenaries

Soldiers:

• 25% Smash/Lethal Resist
• -33.33% Confuse Duration
• +2.0 Confuse Protection

Spec Ops:

• 26% Smash/Lethal Resist
• -33.33% Confuse Duration
• +2.0 Confuse Protection

Commando:

• 26% Smash/Lethal Resist
• 6% Toxic/Cold/Fire Resist
• -33.33% Confuse/Terrorize Duration
• +4.0 Terrorize Protection
• +2.0 Confuse Protection

 

Necromancy

Zombies:

• 25% Smash/Cold/Negative/Toxic/Psionic Resist
• 100% Recharge Time Resist
• -33.33% Sleep/Terrorize Duration
• +4.0 Sleep/Terrorize Protection
• +1.0 Stun Protection

Grave Knights:

• 26% Cold/Negative/Toxic
• 100% Recharge Time Resist
• -33.33% Sleep/Terrorize Duration
• +4.0 Sleep/Terrorize Protection
• +1.0 Stun Protection

 

Lich:

• 26% Cold/Negative/Toxic
• +4.0 Sleep/Terrorize Protection

 

Ninjas

Genin

• 6% AOE/Ranged/Melee Defense
• -33.33% Confuse Duration
• +2.0 Confuse Protection
• +7.16 mph Run Speed

 

Jounin

• 13% AOE/Ranged/Melee Defense
• -33.33% Confuse Duration
• +4.0 Confuse Protection
• +7.16 mph Run Speed

 

Oni

• 6% AOE/Ranged/Melee Defense
• 52% Fire Resist
• 26% Smash/Lethal Resist
• -33.33% Confuse Duration
• +4.0 Confuse Protection
• +7.16 mph Run Speed

 

 

Robots

Battle Drones:

• 25% Lethal/Cold/Psionic Resist
• -33% Sleep/Terrorize Duration
• +4.0 Sleep/Terrorize Protection
• +1.0 Stun Protection

 

Protector Bots + Assault Bot

• 26% Lethal/Cold/Psionic Resist
• -33% Sleep/Terrorize Duration
• +4.0 Sleep/Terrorize Protection
• +1.0 Stun Protection
• Protector Bots will cast Shield on allies, granting +7% AOE/Range/Melee Defense, periodically wears off and must be recast (stacks twice)

 

Thugs

Thugs (Arsonist):

 

• 25% Fire Resist

 

Enforcers:

• 26% Lethal Resist
• Grant Maneuvers to other thugs in range, granting +8% AOE/Range/Melee Defense (two stacks)
• Grant Tactics to other thugs in range, granting +2% to-hit (two stacks), with Equip
• Grant Assault to other thugs in range, granting +5% damage (two stacks), with Upgrade

 

Bruiser

• 26% Smash/Lethal Resist
• 6% Toxic/Cold/Fire Resist
• -33.33% Confuse/Terrorize Duration
• +4.0 Terrorize Protection
• +2.0 Confuse Protection

 

•  

 

[Arbegla]

Well, another solution to this problem, is to make the equip/upgrades PBAoE instead of the psuedo-Targeted AOE that they are now. This will prevent the need to have to target the pets, which isn't possible during the 'spawning' time, and allow you to quickly upgrade them all even if they are spawning.

 

Granted, I'm not sure how it will affect the animation, unless there is a 'animate out of combat only' option, though I do notice that currently only the pet I am targeting gets hit with the 'animation' issue, even if the other pets are in range of the equip/upgrade powers.

 

I would LOVE either a temp invuln or huge def/res boost when the pets are first summoned, but I can see that being exploited a bit...

[Naraka]

On 6/28/2021 at 3:38 PM, Arbegla said:

Well, another solution to this problem, is to make the equip/upgrades PBAoE instead of the psuedo-Targeted AOE that they are now. This will prevent the need to have to target the pets, which isn't possible during the 'spawning' time, and allow you to quickly upgrade them all even if they are spawning.

 

Granted, I'm not sure how it will affect the animation, unless there is a 'animate out of combat only' option, though I do notice that currently only the pet I am targeting gets hit with the 'animation' issue, even if the other pets are in range of the equip/upgrade powers.

 

I would LOVE either a temp invuln or huge def/res boost when the pets are first summoned, but I can see that being exploited a bit...

If still be weary of that solution because, like was mentioned, there seems to be a period that are visually there but not technically there and I often try targeting a pet already summoned that is close to the new pet too use the upgrade on instead. There have been times where I go too far and the upgrade doesn't catch the newly summoned pets.

 

That being said, the main solution I'd use is just summoning me pets in safer places. As is, MM is decently free to retreat to resummon or to wait until the fight dies down to summon. 

[plainguy]

2 hours ago, Naraka said:

If still be weary of that solution because, like was mentioned, there seems to be a period that are visually there but not technically there and I often try targeting a pet already summoned that is close to the new pet too use the upgrade on instead. There have been times where I go too far and the upgrade doesn't catch the newly summoned pets.

 

That being said, the main solution I'd use is just summoning me pets in safer places. As is, MM is decently free to retreat to resummon or to wait until the fight dies down to summon. 

I get what you are saying. 

But ( you know there is a but coming ) as much as I do get the runaway to fight another day. The issue I have with this is concept is no other Arch Type I play has to do this ( meaning runaway).  I don't need to run away to wait for Hail of bullets, Rain of Arrows or Oil Slick to be ready. I have other stuff I can do. 

Do I sometimes see a fight going bad and I try to move back in case I die, so I can ress without aggro? Yes. 

But I am not running away because some power is not ready or cannot be used because mobs will damage it or render it useless somehow..  

Masterminds are limited in this fashion without pets.  Meaning depending on your build, play style you can be pretty useless or limited in your DPS output without pets when compared to other Arch Types. Personally I create a build for ME to survive not my pets. To me pets are like magical floating weapons that I just command to attack along with my attacks until something dies and then I move onto the next target. 
I do understand what you are saying.

But again, I can layout a bunch of scenarios where running away isn't always good.. ETC.. But I am sure you are aware of them as well. 
I just think that Masterminds should be afforded the same abilities to play style like other Arch Types. As I mentioned I think that is a lot dead time over the course of a mission and regular play for a Mastermind Arch Type. 

 

[Naraka]

39 minutes ago, plainguy said:

The issue I have with this is concept is no other Arch Type I play has to do this ( meaning runaway).  I don't need to run away to wait for Hail of bullets, Rain of Arrows or Oil Slick to be ready.

 

I would argue that, yes, other ATs do have to do that.  It's just people forget that non-IO'ed builds exist and don't remember when their Brute was getting mauled and decided to fall back until some powers came off cooldown or just to try again fresh since you weakened their numbers.

 

And when I said retreat, there's a bit of a spectrum to that (although my poorly auto-corrected non-proof read post doesn't demonstrate it).  Retreat doesn't have to mean completely abandon the engagement.  You have mobility, in a sense, in that you can occupy an engagement while also positioning yourself more advantageously.  Find a corner not to hide behind but rather to summon your pets at to give you a few more seconds to get them ready.  There's also the option of just foddering your pets and sending more in regardless, which would be the more rudimentary  version of MM but that requires falling back into a defensive position and moving your pets forward.  Not every engagement is just you + pets in the middle of a swath of foes and if that is how you tackle every engagement then difficulty summoning in those conditions should be the tax you pay considering how simplistic that is compared to practically any other AT.

 

[Arbegla]

I think making the equips/upgrades untargetable PBAoEs will help a lot here, as while you can't directly affect the pets when they spawn, they can still be affected by things, including your own other buffs (Triage Beacon hits my robots right away, even if they aren't spawned yet) so the untargeted PBAoE will upgrade them even if they are in a spawning state.

[plainguy]

9 minutes ago, Arbegla said:

(Triage Beacon hits my robots right away, even if they aren't spawned yet) so the untargeted PBAoE will upgrade them even if they are in a spawning state.

Very good point.. 

[plainguy]

32 minutes ago, Naraka said:

 

I would argue that, yes, other ATs do have to do that.  It's just people forget that non-IO'ed builds exist and don't remember when their Brute was getting mauled and decided to fall back until some powers came off cooldown or just to try again fresh since you weakened their numbers.

 

And when I said retreat, there's a bit of a spectrum to that (although my poorly auto-corrected non-proof read post doesn't demonstrate it).  Retreat doesn't have to mean completely abandon the engagement.  You have mobility, in a sense, in that you can occupy an engagement while also positioning yourself more advantageously.  Find a corner not to hide behind but rather to summon your pets at to give you a few more seconds to get them ready.  There's also the option of just foddering your pets and sending more in regardless, which would be the more rudimentary  version of MM but that requires falling back into a defensive position and moving your pets forward.  Not every engagement is just you + pets in the middle of a swath of foes and if that is how you tackle every engagement then difficulty summoning in those conditions should be the tax you pay considering how simplistic that is compared to practically any other AT.

 

I get what your saying again.. 

 

But this is with an IO build.. 

This issue is regardless of what is slotted and if anything is more noticeable with SO build because you don't have any of those unique IO pets slotted to help out the pets.

 

Again this is coming from a Tankermind Robot Traps with Provoke build.  Which is pretty much up there along with Time.  I can only imagine what how magnified this is with other secondary's.

 

 

 

 

[Arbegla]

10 minutes ago, plainguy said:

Again this is coming from a Tankermind Robot Traps with Provoke build.  Which is pretty much up there along with Time.  I can only imagine what how magnified this is with other secondary's.

 

Psst... Spirit ward might do you better than provoke.. just saying 😉

[MindPyre]

Dreaming a little... 

Currently, you have to take 5 'red-tape' powers - 

• summon
• summon bigger/more
• summon biggest/most
• 1st pet upgrade
• 2nd pet upgrade

Instead of having 5 powers being taken up by summoning and upgrading, at least make the upgrades automatic. Have all pets automatically upgraded when reaching lvl 20 and 32 or something. This eliminates at least a couple seconds of that vulnerable 'wait till I get every pet up to speed' time. And gives MMs room for two new actual real powers that can be used during combat... like two mind/psi control powers or something fitting for a mastermind.

 

Just thinking...

Edited July 4, 2021 by MindPyre

[TheZag]

They already reduced the summon cooldown to almost nothing while they consider larger changes for MMs.  If entirely new MM sets arent feasible, then i wouldnt mind having the upgrades baked in at certain levels to open up 2 new powers in each set. 

[SmalltalkJava]

2 minutes ago, TheZag said:

i wouldnt mind having the upgrades baked in at certain levels to open up 2 new powers in each set. 

I like that idea.  It would really open up MM fun-ability.