Sentinel damage scales?

[aeb]

2 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

This right here. If you enjoy Sentinels, by all means play Sentinels (I have four of them at 50 myself).

I have three three sentinels at fifty, but one just got her 6th T3 today. The other two are all T4s. I have four defenders - they're slight favorites over sentinels - two in all T4's, one moving into T4's, and one still working on getting into T4's. Last is the blasters, I think one just got her 6th T2, and one her 6th T1, but one or both might be working on the next level. 

[aeb]

28 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Are you playing for your own entertainment, or to impress others and meet their expectations?

I'm mainly playing to meet up with friends and socialize, but I don't want to be a detriment to the team when I team up with folks, whether friends, acquaintances, or strangers. I want to pull my own weight, as some say. I struggle with lagging - I'm still not good at keeping up with the team - and I wonder about the rest of my skills, if they're good enough. I felt both grateful and bad about my playing when a pick up group did a second Numina because I didn't get into the last battle before they were done, so didn't get credit. {bite lips}

 

No, I don't want to be the best... I just don't want to hurt the team. I do prefer to play in a team, or a league... but sometimes I solo to make sure I don't hold anyone back, as long as it's not too tough to do by myself... {look down}

[Luminara]

1 minute ago, aeb said:

I'm mainly playing to meet up with friends and socialize, but I don't want to be a detriment to the team when I team up with folks, whether friends, acquaintances, or strangers. I want to pull my own weight, as some say. I struggle with lagging - I'm still not good at keeping up with the team - and I wonder about the rest of my skills, if they're good enough. I felt both grateful and bad about my playing when a pick up group did a second Numina because I didn't get into the last battle before they were done, so didn't get credit. {bite lips}

 

No, I don't want to be the best... I just don't want to hurt the team. I do prefer to play in a team, or a league... but sometimes I solo to make sure I don't hold anyone back, as long as it's not too tough to do by myself... {look down}

 

In 2004 and 2005, I played a couple of the "least effective" characters it was possible to play at that time, a Trick Arrow defender before the buffs to TA in Issue 7, and a defender who only used melee attacks.  I learned a lot from playing those characters, but the most important thing I learned is that most people honestly don't care what you're playing or how you're playing it, as long as everyone is having fun.

 

You're good enough.  And if you're having fun, you're doing it exactly right.

[aeb]

7 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

In 2004 and 2005, I played a couple of the "least effective" characters it was possible to play at that time, a Trick Arrow defender before the buffs to TA in Issue 7, and a defender who only used melee attacks.  I learned a lot from playing those characters, but the most important thing I learned is that most people honestly don't care what you're playing or how you're playing it, as long as everyone is having fun.

 

You're good enough.  And if you're having fun, you're doing it exactly right.

Thanks. I needed to hear that. I hear folks criticizing others, but I'm not doing those things. 🙂

 

[Hardboiled Hero]

16 hours ago, aeb said:

The thing is, I don't know if I'm good in general, or if I'm just less bad... or even as bad, and... 

 

On Everlasting, which I usually play on, I even heard someone describe sentinels in some depth as "the new pity AT." How can that being my best fighters be a good thing?

 

 

  First, your team was apparently able to make it on without you, so you're not "holding them back".  If anything you're holding yourself back, but if you enjoy playing the character than giving yourself more time playing them is actually a good thing.

 

  The sentinel is absolutely pitiable, but being pitiable isn't the same as being bad.  In fact, eliciting pity from others generally requires that a person be good and likable.  Others attribute the "failings" of a pitiable person or situation to "misfortune" rather than any personal flaws or wrongdoing. The AT is likeable and enjoyable.  It "fails" mostly due to "misfortune" rather than being due to integral flaws.  The specific misfortune is that the sentinel AT was introduced at a time in which no AT is really necessary.  This isn't to say that there aren't also "integral flaws" with the AT, but I don't believe those flaws are actually that big.  I hate that the sentinel has reduced ranges and target caps, but I can deal with those things.  Opportunity could use some work, but it isn't a reason to not play the AT.  To me, the problem isn't that sentinels have flaws, it's that they seem to have too many small flaws, some of which could have been easily avoided and seem absolutely unnecessary.  Because I believe the sentinel could be easily better than it is, without being game-breaking, I make noise.  The sentinel isn't really "bad" though, it's just less good than it could be.

 

  P.S.:  By the way, the only character I've ever had booted from a party was a defender, so I guess sentinels at least aren't that bad.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Hardboiled Hero

[aeb]

13 hours ago, Hardboiled Hero said:

 

  First, your team was apparently able to make it on without you, so you're not "holding them back".  If anything you're holding yourself back, but if you enjoy playing the character than giving yourself more time playing them is actually a good thing.

 

  The sentinel is absolutely pitiable, but being pitiable isn't the same as being bad.  In fact, eliciting pity from others generally requires that a person be good and likable.  Others attribute the "failings" of a pitiable person or situation to "misfortune" rather than any personal flaws or wrongdoing. The AT is likeable and enjoyable.  It "fails" mostly due to "misfortune" rather than being due to integral flaws.  The specific misfortune is that the sentinel AT was introduced at a time in which no AT is really necessary.  This isn't to say that there aren't also "integral flaws" with the AT, but I don't believe those flaws are actually that big.  I hate that the sentinel has reduced ranges and target caps, but I can deal with those things.  Opportunity could use some work, but it isn't a reason to not play the AT.  To me, the problem isn't that sentinels have flaws, it's that they seem to have too many small flaws, some of which could have been easily avoided and seem absolutely unnecessary.  Because I believe the sentinel could be easily better than it is, without being game-breaking, I make noise.  The sentinel isn't really "bad" though, it's just less good than it could be.

 

  P.S.:  By the way, the only character I've ever had booted from a party was a defender, so I guess sentinels at least aren't that bad.

I don't want to be pitied, though; I just want to be a fully contributing member of the groups I join. I'm... just concerned about how much I really do contribute.

[Sunsette]

Well, you've heard like half-a-dozen people who have a lot of game experience here tell you that you shouldn't be concerned about that. This isn't high key mythic dungeons in WoW or savage raiding in FF14 or ranked in League of Legends. The attitude is 300% different from those contexts. You can do one of three things:

1. Put serious effort into modifying your worldview so you stop imposing such high standards on yourself. This is easier said than done, but the ideal. We want you to have fun in Paragon City. Alternatively, you can
2. Choose to reroll to meet your very high standards for yourself; or
3. Solo so as not to feel like you are failing your own standards,

I say this without judgment b/c I'm mostly an Option 2/3 person. Just don't think there's much else that can be said here.

 

FWIW I am very aware of the limitations of Sents but I don't pity them when I meet them in groups. It is unlikely I will be impressed but also unlikely I'll see them spend half the map powering my vengeance,

[Snarky]

I agree with Sunsette.  Although I am quick to point out a Sentinels flaws, they are (as an archetype overall) better than some AT/powersets specifically.  But people run what they like.  I would argue for instance (i do love to argue) that a Sentinel is better than a non Perma Dom Dominator.  People run them. People have fun running them. Others team with those people having fun. In fact, a good number of Dominators YOU team with are not perma....BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL LEVELLING.  A Dom without most of its build in cannot perma.  Sentinels in my book are more useful to a team.  (Unless it is a great player, but a great player on a Sentinel is not held back either.)

 

(Unless it is a great player, but a great player on a Sentinel is not held back either.)  Let us revisit this. I know a player who mains a Water Blast Sentinel. I main a Dark/Dark Blaster.  THat player is more useful to the Leagues we are on. More experienced, better click skills, more focused. Gets stuff done.  I wander around like a confused Hellion half the time. Killing unnecessary groups and going the wrong way.

 

Play what you enjoy. The only thing holding you back is you holding you back.

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 hours ago, Snarky said:

Killing unnecessary groups

 

I don't understand. If it has a red box I kill it. They're all very necessary deaths.

[Snarky]

8 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I don't understand. If it has a red box I kill it. They're all very necessary deaths.

Yeah i was in a Dr Q last night with my SG.  I was running my farmer brute.  Rad/Fire/Mu. No stealth. TF build but all i could do was kill through the first floor or two while some sped through. 1 hour 30 minutes. Hopefully someone got some badge progress or a good drop from what i killed lol

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

If it has a red box I kill it.

 

What kind of animal murders red boxes?  I'm calling PETRB.

[Hardboiled Hero]

12 hours ago, aeb said:

I don't want to be pitied, though; I just want to be a fully contributing member of the groups I join. I'm... just concerned about how much I really do contribute.

 

  Those two statements may not seem contradictory, but they certainly are.  You need to decide whether you care more about perception or reality.

 

 Pity is entirely a matter of perception.  As I said, the sentinel can be pitied, not because it lacks ability, but because it lacks opportunity.  What would be required for the sentinel to shine would be an unbalancing of AT's, and doing that just so the sentinel could shine would make the sentinel unworthy.

 

  Reality, on the other hand, is that the sentinel is in much the same position as 3/4 of the AT's in the game.  The AT is enjoyable to many of us.  When I complain about the AT, it isn't because the AT is bad, but rather because I believe there are some easy ways to make the AT slightly better (or more thematic) without causing many balance issues.  If the sentinel is to be reviewed without rebalancing, I think it should at least have it's range increased.  If the actual playstyle of the sentinel is meant to be altered, I'd like to see the sentinel granted greater flexibility in how it can use pool powers, the epic pools should be changed so that all choices are equally viable etc..  essentially I'd like more utility, but none of that is to say that the current iteration of the sentinel is "bad".

[DreadShinobi]

You could say a mid level Sentinel with only SOs is the most balanced thing in the game. The challenge level available in the game is far below the tools available to enhance your characters performance. 

 

There are many options to create challenge, but those challenges are far beyond the game design intent. Some people like to solo TFs, play on +4/x8, solo AVs/GMs, opt out of incarnate powers, opt out of invention enhancements, play ouroboros with challenge settings, disable inspirations. Some people enjoy leveling characters and never touching them again at 50.

 

I like to use all the tools available to me and min/max, challenge for me is therefore speed running content, and I enjoy that. Speed running objectives creates an infinite amount of replay value in the game that doesn't exist elsewhere. The way I enjoy the game is not a reflection on how anyone else enjoys their time here.

 

I can say a forcefields defender sucks because it not competitive or relevant with the state of the game   >>>that I experience<<<   being long past challenge based on content available and more about how fast you can complete it. You can also say playing a fire/fire blaster with incarnate powers, a min/maxed IO build, temp powers/amplifiers and a full tray of large insps is absolutely unnecessary for 101% of the things you can do in this game.

 

There are many archetypes and powersets that will outperform a sentinel. However the point here is that the sentinel is not underperforming, it is more balanced than anything else. It isn't power creep (which is a thing, but it is separate from what I am talking about here), it is that the game can be played and enjoyed with very minimal investment, and every single power set combination, with whatever powers you happen to want to choose, is viable. This is the game design. It is also a part of why there is such an immense gap between the bottom (perfecty viable) and the top (must seek other ways to challenge oneself outside of basic game design). Stating explicitly that the "top end performance" is not more viable than the "bottom end performance", it is just a choice in how you want to play the game. This is not other MMOs where there is raid progression and you are required to meet a dps check.

 

You don't need to feel like a Sentinel has less to contribute. You have that much more _opportunity_ to feel successful when you do that which you thought you could not.

 

Take a breath @aeb and enjoy your stay.

Edited July 8, 2021 by DreadShinobi

[aeb]

Thank you everyone who's responded I do feel a bit better about myself after hearing what you said. 🙂