Holds not built Equally?

[krj12]

I have quite a few controllers that I've built since the game restarted.   One thing I've noted is the effectiveness

of holds depending on the power set.   The only character I have that can reliably hold a level 54 EB is my Ice/Cold -

nothing else comes close.  On the other end of the spectrum, my Electric/Storm has difficulty holding anything

at level 54, much less an EB.

 

Just curious if the hold magnitudes vary by power set,  or is it the different IO sets that I'm using that may be the culprit?

 

 

 

[PainX]

they are 22.4s mag 3 holds so between those two they dont you could be using a chance for mag 2 hold on one of the characters you have access to two of those one in the lockdown hold set and one in devastation ranged set

Edited September 1, 2021 by PainX

[krj12]

No, just checked both - neither is using the chance for mag +2.     

[Carnifax]

The only difference would be the animation times, Fire is the fastest followed by Mind. Ice actually is towards the back of the animation times (Elec & Plant are the slowest).

 

I don't think Cold affects an opponents resistence to Holds either (Benumb debuffs the duration of THEIR holds on you, but not the other way around I think, I don't have it to check but did test Ice Arrow which has the same sort of "X% Heal Dmg, Absorb, Endurance, RunningSpeed, FlyingSpeed, Confused, Terrorized, Held, Immobilized, Stunned, Sleep Strength for 60s (all affected targets) for 60s" effect using a Power Analyser). One area of debuffage we don't see much / any of actually. Debuffs to enemy Mez resistence which would make mezzes last longer. 

 

One thing it may be is the fact that not all EBs are equal. Some get The Purple Triangles of Doom AVs get (54 Mag Mez protection) and those that have ot toggle it on / off. so maybe you ran into a Purple Triangle EB or the cycle of On / Off is to blame. 

 

 

 

 

[roleki]

This is where @UberGuy's City of Data v2.0 comes in handy; as it turns out, some ST Holds are better than others.  

 

Set	ST Hold	Acc	Rech	Arcanatime	Def/Dmg Type	Dmg	100% chance, Mag 3	20% chance, Mag 1
Darkness	Dark Grasp	1.2	8	1.848	Ranged, NegEnergy	30.5856	22.35	11.175
Earth	Fossilize	1.2	8	2.244	Ranged, Smashing	30.5856	22.35	16.763
Electric	Tesla Cage	1.2	8	2.376	Ranged, Energy	30.5856	22.35	16.763
Fire	Char	1.2	8	1.32	Ranged, Fire	33.644 (dot)	22.35	16.763
Gravity	Gravity Distortion	1.2	8	1.98	Ranged, Smashing	33.644 (dot)	22.35	16.763
Ice	Block of Ice	1.2	8	2.112	Ranged, Cold	30.5856	22.35	16.763
Illusion	Blind	1.1	9	1.848	Untyped, Psionic	30.5856	18.625	13.969
Mind	Dominate	1.2	8	1.32	Untyped, Psionic	30.5856	22.35	16.763
Plant	Strangler	1.2	8	2.244	Ranged, Smashing	33.644 (dot)	22.35	11.175

 

As far as I know, resistance to a damage type doesn't affect the control that piggybacks with it, but a target's typed defense can result in more misses which would make it harder to stack Mag/duration.   Also kind of interesting, the OP noted that their Elec/Storm has trouble holding 54s, and Electric Control's Tesla Cage has the longest arcanatime of any ST hold in the AT.  If you haven't seen it mentioned before, Arcanatime is a calculated best-guess (to within 0.132s) of how long it actually takes to execute a power from start to finish, leaving you ready to fire the next attack. 

 

I'm not in a position to do any calculations (and, admittedly, my numbers would be wrong since actual math isn't my strong suit) but it's possible that in the bouillabaisse of a level 54's resists, defense, triangles, whether Venus is in Capricorn, etc that the extra fractions of fractions of seconds difference between Ice and Elec allows a lapse in Mag/duration against high level jerks.  

 

[Doomguide2005]

     I'm going to guess the most likely reason is differences in the target, most likely owing to mez resistance of the target which in turn will vary depending on which powers are currently active on the target.  That's about the only way the duration of the holds is going to effected to the point where the duration is going to be shortened to make stacking the necessary mag difficult (outside of any consideration of PToD).   The base durations even after the purple patch are 1) too similar and 2) too lengthy to make stacking problematic unless those durations are being further effected by the targets mez resistance.  Mez protection might also play a role but my experience says that's more like moving the goal posts of how much mag you'd need to stack before seeing any difference.

     Basically are you seeing this occur specifically against the same EB or random EB's for an overall feel there's a difference between your sets.

    Even Tesla Cage while slower you are still talking only about a second difference between it and Char the fastest hold cycle time while looking at durations of 20+ seconds (assuming some actual enhancement of the hold) duration.   What does your ingame stats say about the duration and recharge of the holds in question?

 

Edit:  one indirect difference might be Ice controls -recharge which won't directly effect any hold it will cause any mez protection or mez resistance powers on cooldown to take what to a player would seem like forever to recharge therefore leaving the target vulnerable to stacking for a longer period.  Likewise there's an Afraid in Arctic Air a foe busy trying to flee isn't going to be casting any mez resist or protection powers.

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Doomguide2005
Afterthoughts

[krj12]

I'm actually more interested in the AE holds than single target... the only major difference that I can see is that electric's AE is ground targeted,  unlike my 

Ice ( PBAE ) and Plant (targeted).  Makes me wonder if minor differences in the elevation of the mobs could have anything to do with it....

 

Differences in resists could possibly have something to do with it.  I do a lot of ITF runs ... do the Cim mobs have high energy resists?

 

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by krj12

[Doomguide2005]

If you are talking about the Cyclops and Minotaurs I believe they have some base energy resistance.  They also have Unyielding and Unstoppable powers which provide more resistance, defense and mez protection.  The bosses and Lts also possess powers such as Shout of Command (a Clarity/Clear Mind like power) which can effect allies and Phalanx Fighting which buffs their defense to all but psi.  So yes as @rolekiput it a interacting bouillabaise of effects that make seeing the real culprit(s) difficult.  

[bustacap]

Illusions AE is the worst. You never want to be in the middle as an illusion (that's for PA and the fear)

 

On that note I have seen a Stone/Rad perma disorient/root several EB almost perma between choking gas/Stalagmites, and Maybe VG (this was a SBB so maybe not VG)

 

I was helping with spamming blind but still. I never cared to play stone control until I saw that.