Invul/Mace critique plz

[The_Warpact]

Hey all, furthering my tanker numbers with another one! Leveling him nice and slow to enjoy everything. Build is ok but could probably be better and thats why I'm asking you.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.6
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

1776: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(3), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(3)
Level 1: Bash -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(15), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(17)
Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(9), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(11), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 4: Dull Pain -- NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(A), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(7), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 6: Hover -- Rct-ResDam%(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(34), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(34)
Level 8: Unyielding -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(13), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 10: Fly -- HO:Micro(A)
Level 12: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Tough -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19), UnbGrd-ResDam(19)
Level 16: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(21), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(23), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(23)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(21), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(25), HO:Enzym(46)
Level 20: Whirling Mace -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(43), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Arm-Acc/Rchg(43), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Arm-Dam%(45)
Level 22: Pulverize -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(45), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 24: Jawbreaker -- Hct-Dam%(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(27), CrsImp-Dmg/Rchg(29), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(33)
Level 28: Clobber -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(37), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(40)
Level 30: Resist Elements -- ImpArm-ResDam(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31), ImpArm-ResPsi(31)
Level 32: Resist Energies -- ImpArm-ResDam(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(33), ImpArm-ResPsi(33)
Level 35: Shatter -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(37), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(39), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(40), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Obl-%Dam(42)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(48), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(50)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 47: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal(5), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(5), Prv-Absorb%(46)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(7), PrfShf-End%(9)
Level 10: Afterburner
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Reactive Partial Radial Conversion
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment
Level 50: Longbow Radial Superior Ally
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
------------

 

 

[Xandyr]

Best I remember,  those 2 powersets ate thru end. How is your endurance doing?

[The_Warpact]

3 minutes ago, Xandyr said:

Best I remember,  those 2 powersets ate thru end. How is your endurance doing?

You mean with recovery serum and the survival amplifier lol?

[PLVRIZR]

So this is Inv/SS, but has a more balanced Res/Def.  Nearly unkillable (thanks Infinitum and Hyperstrike for build examples).  I also put the tank ATOs in faster recharging attacks, and even though they aren't AOEs, they proc consistently (especially MoT in Haymaker).

 

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1567&c=765&a=1530&f=HEX&dc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

[PLVRIZR]

Oh, and if you slot the Gaussian's chance for +Build Up in Invincibility, it constantly goes off, while surrounded...

Edited October 25, 2021 by PLVRIZR

[The_Warpact]

3 minutes ago, PLVRIZR said:

Oh, and if you slot the Gaussian's chance for +Build Up in Invincibility, it constantly goes off, while surrounded...

Thanks for the info! Didn't know that. 

[tidge]

No real comments on the build, I just wanted to comment that I played a WM/Invuln Scrapper past 50. It is very durable, but I was less than excited about the attack chain. It really only came together with lots of global Recharge.

[Hyperstrike]

WM can be a tight setup sometimes.  And, with the way the thing is set up, it can be tough to pull the set bonuses you need.

You're basically over-slotting the Defense armors.

You're an Invuln.  You take Tough and slot it, because it's a set mule.  You don't actually need to RUN tough though.  And it'll save you some Endurance.

I'm sorry, but giving up Taunt is a mistake IMNSHO.

Flight packs are cheap and plentiful.
You don't need Hover for defense.  COMBAT JUMPING UBER ALLES!

Here's a rework of your setup.
 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.6.0
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(3), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(5), GldArm-3defTpProc(5), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(7)
Level 1: Bash -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(11)
Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(15), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 4: Jawbreaker -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(19), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(23)
Level 6: Dull Pain -- Pnc-Heal/Rchg(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(23)
Level 8: Resist Elements -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(25), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(25), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 12: Unyielding -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(27), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(29), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 14: Resist Energies -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(31), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 16: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(33), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(33), Rct-ResDam%(33)
Level 20: Whirling Mace -- Erd-Acc/Rchg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), ClvBlo-Acc/Dmg(34), ClvBlo-Dmg/EndRdx(36), ClvBlo-Dmg/Rchg(36)
Level 22: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(36), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(37)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(39)
Level 28: Clobber -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(40), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(40)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(42)
Level 32: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 35: Shatter -- Erd-Acc/Rchg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), ClvBlo-Acc/Dmg(43), ClvBlo-Dmg/EndRdx(43), ClvBlo-Dmg/Rchg(45)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(46)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Laser Beam Eyes -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(48), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(50), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(50)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(13)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(15)
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
------------

 

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[The_Warpact]

@Hyperstrike I changed your build slightly to more encompass how I play, I took alot of your recommendations and added in some of mine. Namely I will never use laser beam eyes, and relying on a flight pack...nah. I did get better numbers on HP and End, Res, balanced def slightly and dropped on ranged/melee but not by much, increased psi res by alot. So thank you for some clarification on what I needed and I kept taunt, I play broots more so I can see the purpose in conjunction with gauntlet.

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.6
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

1776: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage

• (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
• (3) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
• (3) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
• (21) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
• (23) Reactive Armor - Resistance
• (46) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
  

Level 1: Bash

• (A) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage
• (15) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Recharge
• (17) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (17) Superior Might of the Tanker - Recharge/Chance for +Res(All)
• (48) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (50) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
  

Level 2: Temp Invulnerability

• (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
• (9) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
• (11) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance
• (11) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (46) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance
  

Level 4: Dull Pain

• (A) Numina's Convalesence - Heal/Recharge
• (7) Numina's Convalesence - Heal/Endurance
• (34) Numina's Convalesence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
  

Level 6: Jawbreaker

• (A) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage
• (29) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/RechargeTime
• (31) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
• (34) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (34) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (48) Superior Gauntleted Fist - RechargeTime/+Absorb
  

Level 8: Unyielding

• (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
• (13) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
• (13) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (15) Unbreakable Guard - Endurance/RechargeTime
  

Level 10: Hasten

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 12: Kick

• (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
  

Level 14: Tough

• (A) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance
• (19) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
• (19) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
• (27) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP
  

Level 16: Weave

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
• (23) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
  

Level 18: Invincibility

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
• (21) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
• (25) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage
• (25) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
  

Level 20: Whirling Mace

• (A) Armageddon - Damage
• (43) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
• (43) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (43) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
• (36) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
• (45) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
  

Level 22: Super Jump

• (A) HamiO:Microfilament Exposure
  

Level 24: Combat Jumping

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
• (27) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (29) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
  

Level 26: Tough Hide

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
• (33) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
  

Level 28: Clobber

• (A) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage
• (36) Superior Blistering Cold - Damage/Endurance
• (36) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (37) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (37) Superior Blistering Cold - Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime
• (40) Superior Blistering Cold - Recharge/Chance for Hold
  

Level 30: Resist Elements

• (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance
• (31) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
• (31) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
• (46) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance
• (50) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
  

Level 32: Resist Energies

• (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
• (33) Reactive Armor - Resistance
• (33) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
• (45) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
• (48) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance
  

Level 35: Shatter

• (A) Eradication - Damage
• (37) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (39) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (39) Cleaving Blow - Damage/Endurance
• (40) Cleaving Blow - Accuracy/Damage
• (45) Cleaving Blow - Damage/Recharge
  

Level 38: Crowd Control

• (A) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage
• (39) Superior Avalanche - Damage/Endurance
• (40) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (42) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (42) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (42) Superior Avalanche - Recharge/Chance for Knockdown
  

Level 41: Maneuvers

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
• (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
  

Level 44: Taunt

• (A) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage
  

Level 47: Conserve Power

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 49: Physical Perfection

• (A) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb
  

Level 1: Gauntlet

Level 1: Brawl

 

 

[tidge]

I know this particular opinion isn't really that popular, but I think set bonuses from Reactive Armor are over-rated on Invulnerability. I find them to be rather marginal. On my own Invulnerability builds I will scatter slots between Resistance powers to add Impervium Armor Psi Resistance before I would try to get a little bit more S/L resistance and (minor) Defenses. Except in particular circumstances, I am like to not even toggle on Resist Physical Damage. I do favor 4xUnbreakable Guard for both Endurance Discount and Melee positional defenses.

 

I also would never give up Taunt on any Tanker... but with Invincibility (and War Mace!) you really do want to draw enemies to you.

 

Each to their own taste as far as Healing and Regeneration, but if you are only 3-slotting Dull Pain, I would put 3xPreventive Medicine in Dull Pain, and use the Power Transfer %Heal in Physical Perfection. On my Invulnerable Tankers I find the massive Hit Point infusion to be a key part of their ability to Tank. With HUGE base HP, the assorted %Heal, +HP and Regeneration are IMO much more important than a little bit more Defense or Resistance.

[The_Warpact]

2 hours ago, tidge said:

I know this particular opinion isn't really that popular, but I think set bonuses from Reactive Armor are over-rated on Invulnerability. I find them to be rather marginal. On my own Invulnerability builds I will scatter slots between Resistance powers to add Impervium Armor Psi Resistance before I would try to get a little bit more S/L resistance and (minor) Defenses. Except in particular circumstances, I am like to not even toggle on Resist Physical Damage. I do favor 4xUnbreakable Guard for both Endurance Discount and Melee positional defenses.

 

I also would never give up Taunt on any Tanker... but with Invincibility (and War Mace!) you really do want to draw enemies to you.

 

Each to their own taste as far as Healing and Regeneration, but if you are only 3-slotting Dull Pain, I would put 3xPreventive Medicine in Dull Pain, and use the Power Transfer %Heal in Physical Perfection. On my Invulnerable Tankers I find the massive Hit Point infusion to be a key part of their ability to Tank. With HUGE base HP, the assorted %Heal, +HP and Regeneration are IMO much more important than a little bit more Defense or Resistance.

Are you talking Hyperstrike build or my build?

 

I have dull pain 3 slotted with Numinas which is 12%Regen & 35.14 hp compared to your PM which is 2.25% S/L res & 35.14 hp, I'm capped on res now and that doesn't jive on your post about regen and HP.

In PPerf I have the PM proc which adds a nice absorb to HP and you did point out 1 thing I missed, I usually slot all my toons stamina with the Perf Shifter proc, and Power Transfer proc and end mod so thats on me and I corrected.

In this instance I used Reactive armor to cap nrg and negative, I'm already capped on s/l and melee so no worries there, I also included the Imperium armor procs that how I was able to get a comfortable res on psi.

Overall compared to where I started and what Hyperstrike posted and using this hybrid model I think it is way stronger than what it was.

[The_Warpact]

Minor changes to build.

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.6
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

1776: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(3), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(3), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(21), RctArm-ResDam(23), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(46)
Level 1: Bash -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(15), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(17), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(9), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(11), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 4: Dull Pain -- NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(A), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(7), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 6: Jawbreaker -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(29), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(48)
Level 8: Unyielding -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(13), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 12: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 14: Tough -- UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19), UnbGrd-ResDam(19), UnbGrd-Max HP%(27)
Level 16: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(23)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(21), Rct-ResDam%(25), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(25)
Level 20: Whirling Mace -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(43), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Arm-Acc/Rchg(43), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Arm-Dam%(45)
Level 22: Super Jump -- HO:Micro(A)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(27), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(29)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(33)
Level 28: Clobber -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(37), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(40)
Level 30: Resist Elements -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(31), ImpArm-ResPsi(46), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 32: Resist Energies -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam(33), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(33), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), ImpArm-ResPsi(48)
Level 35: Shatter -- Erd-Dmg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), ClvBlo-Dmg/EndRdx(39), ClvBlo-Acc/Dmg(40), ClvBlo-Dmg/Rchg(45)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(42)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(50)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 47: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Physical Perfection -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(5), Mrc-Rcvry+(5)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(7), PwrTrns-EndMod(9)
Level 22: Double Jump
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Reactive Partial Radial Conversion
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment
Level 50: Longbow Radial Superior Ally
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
------------

 

 

[tidge]

2 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

I have dull pain 3 slotted with Numinas which is 12%Regen & 35.14 hp compared to your PM which is 2.25% S/L res & 35.14 hp, I'm capped on res now and that doesn't jive on your post about regen and HP.

 

I suggested putting Preventive Medicine in Dull Pain because it "saves" you a slot (ultimately, from Stamina) but doesn't "cost" you the Preventive Medicine %proc.

 

On my Inv Tank, I have 6-slots (all Preventive Medicine) in Dull Pain, I like the 5th and 6th set bonuses a LOT, plus I want it 'nigh-perma' for Lord Recluse et. al.

 

My (ebil) motivation is to find you 3 more slots to do the same! I think you can get the one from Stamina for 'no big deal', and I'm tempted to ask you to give up the Numina slot in Health as well. (Why is it in Health and not in Dull Pain with the rest of the set anyway?) The loss in Recovery may covered (with accolades) by the 5th piece (Endurance Discount) bonus from Preventive Medicine, and if Regeneration is the key note that the Impervious Skin piece offers a higher fraction... but if Regeneration is a factor in thinking you really do want Dull Pain to be maximized... both for the availability, HP boost and the (presumed) concern with healing-over-time.

 

Maybe you've crunched the numbers on Dull Pain and have min-maxed so that you don't 'overshoot' the HP cap? I think at level 50 6-pieces of Preventive Medicine should give at least 100 more HP than 3 pieces of Numina.

 

 

[The_Warpact]

38 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

I suggested putting Preventive Medicine in Dull Pain because it "saves" you a slot (ultimately, from Stamina) but doesn't "cost" you the Preventive Medicine %proc.

 

On my Inv Tank, I have 6-slots (all Preventive Medicine) in Dull Pain, I like the 5th and 6th set bonuses a LOT, plus I want it 'nigh-perma' for Lord Recluse et. al.

 

My (ebil) motivation is to find you 3 more slots to do the same! I think you can get the one from Stamina for 'no big deal', and I'm tempted to ask you to give up the Numina slot in Health as well. (Why is it in Health and not in Dull Pain with the rest of the set anyway?) The loss in Recovery may covered (with accolades) by the 5th piece (Endurance Discount) bonus from Preventive Medicine, and if Regeneration is the key note that the Impervious Skin piece offers a higher fraction... but if Regeneration is a factor in thinking you really do want Dull Pain to be maximized... both for the availability, HP boost and the (presumed) concern with healing-over-time.

 

Maybe you've crunched the numbers on Dull Pain and have min-maxed so that you don't 'overshoot' the HP cap? I think at level 50 6-pieces of Preventive Medicine should give at least 100 more HP than 3 pieces of Numina.

 

 

Ah, I thought you were going for set bonuses.

OK

Thought it procs more in health instead of a clickie(?)...ok

 

Min?max lol me...whew that was good. No seriously I suck at builds that's why I come on here pestering you folks. Anywho I did the redo, lost alil bit of res, pulled one off hasten still perma, and the scale resist that was in Unyielding. 6 slot DP with prev maint so looks good. Check it below.

 

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.6
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

1776: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(3), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(3), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(21), RctArm-ResDam(23), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(46)
Level 1: Bash -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(15), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(17), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(9), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(11), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 4: Dull Pain -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(5), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(7), Prv-Heal/Rchg(25), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(34), Prv-Absorb%(46)
Level 6: Jawbreaker -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(29), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(48)
Level 8: Unyielding -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(13), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 12: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 14: Tough -- UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19), UnbGrd-ResDam(19), UnbGrd-Max HP%(27)
Level 16: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(23)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(21), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(25)
Level 20: Whirling Mace -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(43), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Arm-Acc/Rchg(43), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Arm-Dam%(45)
Level 22: Super Jump -- HO:Micro(A)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(27), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(29)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(33)
Level 28: Clobber -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(37), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(40)
Level 30: Resist Elements -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(31), ImpArm-ResPsi(46), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 32: Resist Energies -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam(33), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(33), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), ImpArm-ResPsi(48)
Level 35: Shatter -- Erd-Dmg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), ClvBlo-Dmg/EndRdx(39), ClvBlo-Acc/Dmg(40), ClvBlo-Dmg/Rchg(45)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(42)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(50)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Physical Perfection -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(5)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(7), PwrTrns-EndMod(9)
Level 22: Double Jump
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Reactive Partial Radial Conversion
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment
Level 50: Longbow Radial Superior Ally
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
------------

 

 

 

 

[Hyperstrike]

6 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

@Hyperstrike I changed your build slightly to more encompass how I play, I took alot of your recommendations and added in some of mine. Namely I will never use laser beam eyes, and relying on a flight pack...nah. I did get better numbers on HP and End, Res, balanced def slightly and dropped on ranged/melee but not by much, increased psi res by alot. So thank you for some clarification on what I needed and I kept taunt, I play broots more so I can see the purpose in conjunction with gauntlet.

Nice!  You found a way around some of the stuff I was compensating for with IO sets.
One thing.  The PerfShifter in Stamina should be the Proc FIRST and foremost.
Because, in sapper situations, they can floor your Recovery.  But the proc will still give you that little burp of End regardless of whether or not your Recovery is floored.
This makes it more valuable than a L50+5 EndMod.  You're going for the Heal + EndMod with Power Transfer.  Nice to have. 
But you're a friggin' Invuln.
Anything that's hurting you enough to need that is using Incarnate level super-cheaty*AHEM!*DIFFICULTY damage mechanics.
Exchanging for the Proc will still leave you with 3x-PLUS your resting End consumption.

With SJ.  I recommend putting the Winter's Gift 20% Slow Resistance in there.
Slows are one of the few things that really crap in an Invuln's cornflakes.
Being MACE on top of that, and it's all crap and no cornflake.
The Slow Resist won't *FIX* that, but it'll blunt the effects.

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

 

I suggested putting Preventive Medicine in Dull Pain because it "saves" you a slot (ultimately, from Stamina) but doesn't "cost" you the Preventive Medicine %proc.

 

On my Inv Tank, I have 6-slots (all Preventive Medicine) in Dull Pain, I like the 5th and 6th set bonuses a LOT, plus I want it 'nigh-perma' for Lord Recluse et. al.

 

My (ebil) motivation is to find you 3 more slots to do the same! I think you can get the one from Stamina for 'no big deal', and I'm tempted to ask you to give up the Numina slot in Health as well. (Why is it in Health and not in Dull Pain with the rest of the set anyway?) The loss in Recovery may covered (with accolades) by the 5th piece (Endurance Discount) bonus from Preventive Medicine, and if Regeneration is the key note that the Impervious Skin piece offers a higher fraction... but if Regeneration is a factor in thinking you really do want Dull Pain to be maximized... both for the availability, HP boost and the (presumed) concern with healing-over-time.

 

Maybe you've crunched the numbers on Dull Pain and have min-maxed so that you don't 'overshoot' the HP cap? I think at level 50 6-pieces of Preventive Medicine should give at least 100 more HP than 3 pieces of Numina.

 

 

No.  Dull Pain is nice.  But on a high end Invuln it becomes an afterthought.  Sorry.
A lot of times, people use it ONLY for the heal.  They forget to use it at opportune times.  There are better ways to mule.
In PhysPerf, it's essentially "Always On" with a (lower overall) chance to trigger.
This goes DOUBLE for the Numina uniques.
It's "set and forget" that way.

[The_Warpact]

12 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

No.  Dull Pain is nice.  But on a high end Invuln it becomes an afterthought.  Sorry.
A lot of times, people use it ONLY for the heal.  They forget to use it at opportune times.  There are better ways to mule.
In PhysPerf, it's essentially "Always On" with a (lower overall) chance to trigger.
This goes DOUBLE for the Numina uniques.
It's "set and forget" that way.

Ok so I use DP as an auto thing, as soon as it comes up I fire it to always maintain high HP. 

Not common usage?

[Hyperstrike]

2 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

Ok so I use DP as an auto thing, as soon as it comes up I fire it to always maintain high HP. 

Not common usage?

If you're going to put something on Auto, make it Hasten.

More damage output potential.

[The_Warpact]

2 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

If you're going to put something on Auto, make it Hasten.

More damage output potential.

I do have it on auto, I was just saying that I hit DP as soon as it comes up.

[tidge]

16 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

No.  Dull Pain is nice.  But on a high end Invuln it becomes an afterthought.  Sorry.
A lot of times, people use it ONLY for the heal.  They forget to use it at opportune times.  There are better ways to mule.
In PhysPerf, it's essentially "Always On" with a (lower overall) chance to trigger.
This goes DOUBLE for the Numina uniques.
It's "set and forget" that way.

 

Are you referring to the Preventive Maintenance %proc? That will trigger even if it is in a click power. If you are referring to the Numina's global... I don't even include it; I think it is one of the most over-rated pieces in the game.

 

The ONLY time I even come close to recommending Numina's Global is while leveling, and even that is a bit of a mug's game, because in addition to the build having to need (just a little bit of) Regeneration and Recovery:

• The build has to not be getting Regeneration (or +HP) or Recovery (or +MaxEnd, or Endurance discounts) from slotting set bonuses (or simply using IOs)
• The build has to have a "spare slot" to drop into Health
• The build has to be level 27+

If a build REALLY needs the Numina's global all the time, I suspect that the slot from Health could almost certainly be better used somewhere else to address the actual issue why it is needed. I work that market niche, so I profit when players gobble them up, but it is really a pretty poor use of a slot considering all of the other options.

 

You don't have to believe me, and you can "prove me wrong" by anecdote... just take one of the builds you have with it slotted and use an Unslotter to take it out and play for a couple of days without it. That's what I do for my characters when I think something may be 'marginal', in the specific case of the Numina's global I tried this on several different characters and I really never noticed if it was there or not. For Tankers (and Brutes, the high HP ATs), the priority should be Power Transfer %Heal, then Panacea +HP/+End, then Performance Shifter +End, and then everything else.

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by tidge

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, tidge said:

 

Are you referring to the Preventive Maintenance %proc? That will trigger even if it is in a click power. If you are referring to the Numina's global... I don't even include it; I think it is one of the most over-rated pieces in the game.

 

The ONLY time I even come close to recommending Numina's Global is while leveling, and even that is a bit of a mug's game, because in addition to the build having to need (just a little bit of) Regeneration and Recovery:

• The build has to not be getting Regeneration (or +HP) or Recovery (or +MaxEnd, or Endurance discounts) from slotting set bonuses (or simply using IOs)
• The build has to have a "spare slot" to drop into Health
• The build has to be level 27+

If a build REALLY needs the Numina's global all the time, I suspect that the slot from Health could almost certainly be better used somewhere else to address the actual issue why it is needed. I work that market niche, so I profit when players gobble them up, but it is really a pretty poor use of a slot considering all of the other options.

 

You don't have to believe me, and you can "prove me wrong" by anecdote... just take one of the builds you have with it slotted and use an Unslotter to take it out and play for a couple of days without it. That's what I do for my characters when I think something may be 'marginal', in the specific case of the Numina's global I tried this on several different characters and I really never noticed if it was there or not. For Tankers (and Brutes, the high HP ATs), the priority should be Power Transfer %Heal, then Panacea +HP/+End, then Performance Shifter +End, and then everything else.

 

If I'm flat out not taking damage, why do I need a Chance To Heal?
My standard loadout for Health is Panacea Proc, Numina Unique, Miracle Unique.
Slotted when available it ameliorates a lot of early game End woes.
In late game, the focus is on maintaining the fastest, most damaging attach chain you can manage.  WITHOUT running out of End.

This way I get a chance to Heal (whether I need it or not), a Regen bump (again whether I need it or not) and +25% Recovery.
And it's always there.  Always running.

Maybe it's not the BEST use of Health slots.
But it's one of the most efficient.
 

[Maelwys]

For recovery purposes:
Panacea Unique is always the most powerful, by far.
Miracle Unique is 2nd-best.
Performance Shifter Unique is 3rd-best.
A regular SO/IO in Stamina is a very close 4th.
A second regular SO/IO in Stamina is a very close 5th.
Then lastly there's the Numina Unique.

For regeneration purposes: the Power Transfer Proc (which is NOT Unique - you can slot multiple copies of it) comfortably beats the Panacea Unique, which beats regular SOs/IOs, which beat the Numina Unique.

Numina is technically "worst" at both... but it double-jobs. Therefore Panacea is the only one that's better than it 100% of the time.


Personally my baseline is a Panacea + Miracle in health; and 2x Regular SOs/IOs and a Power Transfer in Stamina.
I'll try to throw extra on top of that if I have the slots free, but I dislike Performance Shifter's unreliability - I'd much rather have the guaranteed steady recovery from regular IOs (and often Numina as well!) and since the average performance difference is negligible I tend to drop it. I never really miss the extra recovery - and I build all my characters to maintain an unbroken maximum-dps attack chain without running dry at endgame, often even without ageless.

Performance Shifter only has a Proc rate of 25%. This means that over the course of a minute it has a 18.00% chance of not kicking in (see cumulative binomial probability) compared to the "always active" additional recovery from a regular or second regular IO in Stamina... and the theoretical performance difference between them is so slight (the region of 0.04 End/Sec) that PS becomes less attractive.
Panacea technically suffers from the same issue, but its higher proc rate of 50% means that it is much more reliable in practice than PS - over the course of a minute it has only a 1.56% chance of not kicking in, and its theoretical average recovery rate is also considerably higher.
 

  

20 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

No.  Dull Pain is nice.  But on a high end Invuln it becomes an afterthought.  Sorry.
A lot of times, people use it ONLY for the heal.  They forget to use it at opportune times.  There are better ways to mule.
In PhysPerf, it's essentially "Always On" with a (lower overall) chance to trigger.
This goes DOUBLE for the Numina uniques.
It's "set and forget" that way.

Tidge has it right there actually: The Preventative Medicine unique functions as a set bonus. This means that it's always active, regardless of whether you actually use the power it's slotted into or not (it even works if the power is unavailable because you're exemplaring!)

You'd be correct for the Numina and Miracle uniques, since they don't function as set bonuses but as a glorified proc e.g. a "chance for X to happen every Y seconds". Although in their case, it's a 100% chance for an effect to kick in and the effect lasts for 120 seconds... which means that their effect would always be active in a Perma Dull Pain setup anyway. And personally I'd be loathe to give up Perma Dull Pain on any INV; even in a high-end one with hardcapped everything, self-healing from their secondary powerset and a bunch of extra DDR from ageless.

(Edit: Also, I should probably point out it's perfectly doable to make multiple powers trigger as soon as they're recharged with zero extra clicking effort. Whilst it's only possible to flag a single power as "autofiring" (as-in place the green circle around it) you can trigger as many powers as you want in sequence via the game's built-in keybinds/macro system. Many of my keybinds trigger a list of things like *Hasten* and *Dull Pain* FIRST before the other underlying powers fire off...)

Edited October 29, 2021 by Maelwys

[Wobegone]

59 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

Performance Shifter only has a Proc rate of 25%. This means that over the course of a minute it has a 18.00% chance of not kicking in (see cumulative binomial probability) compared to the "always active" additional recovery from a regular or second regular IO in Stamina... and the theoretical performance difference between them is so slight (the region of 0.04 End/Sec) that PS becomes less attractive.

Stamina has a base of 25%, so Numina's 10% recovery is equivalent to a 40% enhancement. For that reason, you should say Numina > Standard SO. One way to treat these is to look at their equivalent added recovery and calculate their equivalent enhancement value:
Panacea = +22.5% recovery (equivalent to 90% enhancement in stamina)

Performance Shifter proc = +15% recovery (eq. 60% enhancement)

Miracle = +15% recovery (eq. 60%)

+5 Level 50 IO = +13.25% recovery (53% before E.D.)

Level 50 IO = +10.6% recovery (42.4% before E.D.)

Numina = +10% recovery (eq. 40%)

Standard SO = +8.33% recovery (33.3% before E.D.)

 

The above is from @Bopper from a previous discussion.  

 

You're right that the procs are random, but over time the math is still in favor of a Performance Shifter Proc over IO, though as you say, the difference between a Level 50+5 generic IO and the Performance Shifter proc is pretty small. 

 

Edit to add: Also, the Performance Shifter will give you Endurance even if you've been drained and have your recovery floored.  

Edited October 29, 2021 by Ignatz the Insane

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

If I'm flat out not taking damage, why do I need a Chance To Heal?
 

 

If you "flat out aren't taking damage". why bother toggling on the resistance powers? think of all the Endurance you can save!

[Maelwys]

Point taken RE SOs. 
My comparison maths was based on +5 Level 50 Common IOs, so the ranking was probably more accurate for endgame.

  

38 minutes ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

Panacea = +22.5% recovery (equivalent to 90% enhancement in stamina)

Performance Shifter proc = +15% recovery (eq. 60% enhancement)

 

Those two are more floaty; since +Recovery =/= +Endurance
The first scales with your maximum Endurance pool (Accolades and set bonuses) and the second is flat.
That pushes the benefit of Raw Recovery from Common IOs in Stamina so close to the PS proc that it's basically a wash.

I'll accept the PS +Endurance helps versus sappers, but so does Panacea and it's a lot more reliable at kicking in.

Panacea will also end up on the same timing cycle as Performance Shifter after login, which means often both will proc simultaneously.
What I mean by that is that whenever you first log in (or zone!), your character syncs up with the server clock. All of their toggle and auto powers and set bonuses then immediately trigger if they're able to do so, which starts their refresh times cycling.

In other words; After you log off and log in, any procs or set bonuses in your auto powers immediately have a chance to trigger, and then start counting again from "0 seconds" on the same cycle. Every 10 seconds they will have another chance to activate. They can't activate at 9.9 seconds or at 10.1 seconds - it's 10 seconds exactly.
This means that if a character has both a Panacea and a PS proc slotted, then chances are pretty decent that both procs will often trigger at exactly the same time.
You can see this happening more clearly with multiple Power Transfer procs and Panacea in the same build (e.g. Health + Stamina + Quick Recovery + Superior Conditioning + Physical Perfection) - it's not uncommon to see 4-5 green numbers floating over your head on the same server tick; then you need to wait exactly 10 seconds to see another green number.

But Panacea has double the activation chance of PS, and a higher average return... so when combined with the latter's unreliability (I want that +endurance to kick in when I'm less than 90% full but more than 0% full - is my character likely to remain in those conditions longer than a minute?) I find that PS is often superfluous.

(In theory you could log in, unslot a proc like PS, and then slot it again; which breaks the cycle time up... but you'd need to keep doing that every time you zone!)
 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Maelwys