Trying to determine the DPS between different builds

[plainguy]

To be clear this is for a Petless or Semi-Petless ( last pet only ) Mastermind build. So if you are looking to break balls about it just move on and save the drama for your moma.. 

 

Looking for help on DPS numbers. 

 

I have many Whips/Kin/Trap/Dark/Storm/Trick Arrow,  Robot/Traps,  Various Primary with  Trick Arrow builds.

Now I know many have decent debuffs but my Goal is to run a 8/1 ITF with no deaths. The problem is DPS output. 
They all can do 8/3 or even 8/4 settings on missions solo. 

I have tried doing it but ended in a stalemate on the 3rd mission with the computer, Stop Romulus. I just didn't have enough DPS output to kill his regeneration.

 

I just was looking at this dominator post by Voltak: 

 

 

Voltak shared some numbers and defense wise and resistance wise they are comparable to mine. Being Dark Dark, he does have a bunch of debuffs. But again so do I depending on the build.  

 

So I have that covered. Voltak mentioned that Longbow pet helped him out very much. So I can follow the same route. 

 

 

BUT my big issue. 

Is trying to determine DPS output on a build without doing a pylon test.. I am trying to narrow down to a few builds and then maybe test it out.

I have been just adding up the dps on attacks. Not counting boxing or kick or a power with a proc in it. EG acid arrow for example with a single proc. 

 

I also just was doing the Heather Townshend arc (Burden of the Past) and noticed that my Whips Kin could not put out enough DPS to kill the last mobs in 90s.. Which I thought was interesting and a decent test.. I know my Whip/Traps or Whips/ Trick Arrow can.. 

 

Incarnate I am thinking

Agility if I have to for endurance reasons, otherwise Musculature for DPS increase.

Judgement would be Ion for the hold. I am thinking stacking holds ,when possible.

Degenerative for the hp debuff proc.. less hp to deal with.

Ageless for endurance and recharge and recovery.

Lore would be of course Longbow for the  Cataphract and the -500 regen debuff.

Hybrid - Bit torn.. 

 

So I see it doable.. But I need to understand how to determine DPS much better. 

 

 

 

[Voltak]

Glad I could be of help and still I am willing to help. 

Keep in mind that during the time your Longbow T4 pets are out, the 500% regen PLUS the debuff from longbow nullifier means your own character's dmg just needs to be there. 

The only issue you have to worry about is the DPS when Lore pets are gone.  Then you determine what you need by knowing what debuffs will be actually applied to the target. 

Figure that out first, because your DPS needs will vary according to that. 

[plainguy]

9 minutes ago, Voltak said:

Glad I could be of help and still I am willing to help. 

Keep in mind that during the time your Longbow T4 pets are out, the 500% regen PLUS the debuff from longbow nullifier means your own character's dmg just needs to be there. 

The only issue you have to worry about is the DPS when Lore pets are gone.  Then you determine what you need by knowing what debuffs will be actually applied to the target. 

Figure that out first, because your DPS needs will vary according to that. 

Looking at your video I can see you where holding him.. That is big.. Every time he is held, he is not putting out DPS.. 

 

Working on other builds now.. I am thinking Necro Trick Arrow. 
I did see you brought out your pet at one point as well. 

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by plainguy

[Voltak]

7 minutes ago, plainguy said:

Looking at your video I can see you where holding him.. That is big.. Every time he is held, he is not putting out DPS.. 

 

Working on other builds now.. I am thinking Dark Trick Arrow. 
I did see you brought out your pet at one point as well. 

 

Trick arrow has perhaps the best debuff in the game when going one vs one with an ArchVillain. 

You hear how AVs have resistances to your debuffs?

Well, Trick Arrow is the ONLY power set in the game that debuffs those resistances that AVs have to the debuffs you apply to them ; that power is called Acid Arrow.  

ON top of that, Trick Arrow has some very SICK debuffs

Therefore, IMO, Trick Arrow is the strongest debuffing power set vs an AV.  

Edited October 31, 2021 by Voltak

[DarknessEternal]

On 10/31/2021 at 4:42 PM, Voltak said:

Trick arrow has perhaps the best debuff in the game when going one vs one with an ArchVillain.

Acid Arrow debuffs Defense, Endurance, ToHit, Regeneration, Recovery, RechargeTime, and EnduranceDiscount.

Which of those things debuffs debuff resisstance?

[Uun]

17 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

Acid Arrow debuffs Defense, Endurance, ToHit, Regeneration, Recovery, RechargeTime, and EnduranceDiscount.

 

Which of those things debuffs debuff resisstance?

It only debuffs defense. It debuffs resistance to all the others and adds resistance to healing. See below for CoD (these are defender numbers).

 

-25% Base Defense (all affected targets) for 45s
-40% Resistance (Endurance, ToHit, Regeneration, Recovery, RechargeTime, EnduranceDiscount) (all affected targets) for 45s
+40% Resistance (Heal Dmg) (all affected targets) for 45s

 

Ice Arrow also debuffs the strength of the foe's secondary power effects (and ignores resistance):
-67.05% Heal Dmg, Absorb, Endurance, RunningSpeed, FlyingSpeed, Confused, Terrorized, Held, Immobilized, Stunned, Sleep Strength (all affected targets) for 60s

-67.05% Ranged, Melee, Area, Smashing, Lethal, Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative Energy, Psionic, Toxic, Base Defense, ToHit Strength (all affected targets) for 60s

[DarknessEternal]

Yes, you quoted what I quoted.  My question still stands.  It was claimed Acid Arrow debuffed debuff resistance and nothing on City of Data backs that up.

 

@Voltak "Well, Trick Arrow is the ONLY power set in the game that debuffs those resistances that AVs have to the debuffs you apply to them ; "

Edited December 11, 2021 by DarknessEternal

[Uun]

3 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

Yes, you quoted what I quoted.  My question still stands.  It was claimed Acid Arrow debuffed debuff resistance and nothing on City of Data backs that up.

 

@Voltak "Well, Trick Arrow is the ONLY power set in the game that debuffs those resistances that AVs have to the debuffs you apply to them ; "

AV debuff resistance is coded like this:

+85% Resistance (Ranged, Melee, Area, Smashing, Lethal, Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative Energy, Psionic, Toxic, Base Defense, Endurance, ToHit, RunningSpeed, PerceptionRadius, Regeneration, Recovery, Accuracy, RechargeTime) (self only) on activate until caster defeated

 

Acid Arrow provides this: 

 -40% Resistance (Endurance, ToHit, Regeneration, Recovery, RechargeTime, EnduranceDiscount) (all affected targets) for 45s

 

It reduces the debuff resistance from 85% to 45% for the six bolded attributes.

[DarknessEternal]

I feel like we're talking about apples and oranges here.

[Doomguide2005]

On 12/11/2021 at 9:07 PM, DarknessEternal said:

I feel like we're talking about apples and oranges here. 

They are talking about the Resistances the AV (or any target for that matter) has to your debuffs.  Normally if a lvl 50 Rad defender uses Lingering Radiation on a lvl 50 AV the AV resists that debuff of 500% by 85% leaving it at a 75% debuff.  If however they are hit by Acid Arrow first it's resisted by 45% leaving the debuff at 275% on the AVs regeneration.

     My question at that point is if the Acid Arrow's resist debuff is  itself resisted.  

[Pzn]

14 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

They are talking about the Resistances the AV (or any target for that matter) has to your debuffs.  Normally if a lvl 50 Rad defender uses Lingering Radiation on a lvl 50 AV the AV resists that debuff of 500% by 85% leaving it at a 75% debuff.  If however they are hit by Acid Arrow first it's resisted by 45% leaving the debuff at 275% on the AVs regeneration.

     My question at that point is if the Acid Arrow's resist debuff is  itself resisted.  

I think the only thing that would reduce acid arrow's effectiveness would be level difference.  It's reducing their debuff resistance directly, not really a "debuff".

[Doomguide2005]

4 hours ago, Pzn said:

I think the only thing that would reduce acid arrow's effectiveness would be level difference.  It's reducing their debuff resistance directly, not really a "debuff".

Seems likely to be the case, just wondered as nothing indicates the - resist (special) is unresistable ... other than the question of what would resist it.  So for Relentless Aeon dreaming 2 to 3 TA (Acid Arrow), 2 Dark Affinity (Fade - now everyone has DDR) ... Go!