Kat/EnA vs Kat/Bio questions and feedback.

[Obsinious]

Hey all, I'm looking for feedback on a Kat/EnA vs a Kat/Bio scrapper.  I'm expecting the /en version will be more survivable and the /bio version will do more damage.  My question is how big the difference will be both ways.  Also I'm curious on conventional wisdom for Critical Strikes slotting on Katana. 

 

I also have a build for both that I'm seeking feedback on, if you see any improvements please let me know.  The requirements are Mystic Flight for the travel power, and either Ball Lightning or Fireball out of the Epic Pool.

 

Here's the Kat/EnA first.  This is heavily based off of a Brute build by Linea from before the RoP changes, but I kept it since i was already in sorcery and it was a decent mule.

 

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Next here's the Kat/Bio.  I don't remember where I got it, but it was probably these forums.  So if it looks like yours, thanks.

 

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[StriderIV]

I’ve long debated which of these 2 secondaries paired better with Katana/Claws myself. Looking forward to seeing the discussion.

[Nemu]

8 hours ago, Obsinious said:

/bio version will do more damage. 

You should qualify that statement. Why do you think /bio will do more damage in the real world on a build that skipped flashing steel and where you have to spam divine avalanche, ablative carapace, dNA siphon, and parasitic aura to stay alive? Builds that invest heavily into survival means that they invest less in procs.

 

Linea's build is for extreme survival, do you really need that level of survival? Energy aura is very easy to softcap which means you can invest in more damage procs if your mindset is "I don't need to run 801s to prove myself or have fun."

 

In that context, proc light bio that has to spam DA and all sorts of other tools to stay alive vs proc heavy EA that doesn't need DA and has more damage procs in attacks, which one would do more damage?

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Katana
Secondary Power Set: Energy Aura
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Weapon Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Sting of the Wasp -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(5), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Hct-Acc/Rchg(7), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(11)
Level 1: Kinetic Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(3), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(3), LucoftheG-Def(5), Rct-ResDam%(13), Ksm-ToHit+(49)
Level 2: Flashing Steel -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(13), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(17)
Level 4: Mystic Flight -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 6: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), RctRtc-ToHit/Rchg(19), RctRtc-Pcptn(19)
Level 8: Power Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(9), LucoftheG-Def(9), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(11), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(40)
Level 10: Entropic Aura -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Dampening Field -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(23), Ags-ResDam(25), Ags-Psi/Status(27)
Level 14: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Energy Protection -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(27), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 18: The Lotus Drops -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Arm-Acc/Rchg(39), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 20: Energy Cloak -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(21), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), LucoftheG-Def(23)
Level 22: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(34), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34), UnbGrd-Max HP%(36)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 26: Soaring Dragon -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(36), Hct-Dam%(37), HO:Nucle(37), Dmg-I(37), TchofLadG-%Dam(39)
Level 28: Energize -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(29), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(29), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(33), Pnc-Heal(33)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(31), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), LucoftheG-Def(31)
Level 32: Golden Dragonfly -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(33), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(43), HO:Nucle(45), Dmg-I(45), Arm-Dam%(45)
Level 35: Caltrops -- PstBls-Dam%(A), JvlVll-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(46), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(46), ImpSwf-Dam%(46)
Level 38: Energy Drain -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), SynSck-EndMod(42), SynSck-Dam/Rech(42), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(42), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(43), SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(43)
Level 41: Targeting Drone -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Spirit Ward -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 47: Exploding Shuriken -- Ann-ResDeb%(A), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(47), PstBls-Dam%(47), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(48), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Rune of Protection -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit 
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(36)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
------------

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[InvaderStych]

2 hours ago, Nemu said:

Energy aura is very easy to softcap which means you can invest in more damage procs

 

I'm a bit confused here, so bear with me.  Proc rates on SD/GC really aren't all that great so I am surprised by this slotting.  At the very least I'd expect to see the +50% ATO piece in SD in order to setup GC and avoid reducing the firing rate with GC's area factor.  I am just going from memory, which I probably shouldn't and should dig up the PPM calc lying around.

 

They both look to be slotted at around 33%acc and 75%dmg - EDIT: Corection - ~37%/88% - that seems like a fair amount of lost base/crit dmg for the sake of a chance of (admittedly exotic) dmg types that won't crit, not to mention lost +acc, which maybe is less of an issue with Kat with it's higher base acc?

 

So, ignoring set bonuses because I agree with your core point and am reviewing some of my older builds with such things in mind, this is actually more effective offense than slotting both to max stats with 5 pieces and reserving a higher PPM, VR %dmg for each?

Edited November 22, 2021 by InvaderStych

[Nemu]

I chose the +crit proc in GD because it has a longer animation time and longer recharge, you can try it in SD and see if that works any better. Neither are great candidates for procs but I rather have these procs in ST attacks that I will use often than area attacks that don't get used all that much for harder targets.

 

The low ACC in both SD and GD is offset by kismet and the +acc bonuses from purples and the 4 slot LOTG. Even without targeting drone I sit at 95% hit chance against +4s with both SD and GD. The lost recharge enhancement in these powers is offset by the recharge bonuses from purples +LOTG/Hasten/FF proc. There is a method to my madness here.

 

While 88% damage enhancement is not at the ED cap, taking the damage proc away and replacing it with a damage enhancement results in even lower numbers especially when you factor musculature in at endgame, and I left musculature turned off intentionally in the export.

 

Just to round out the thought process, there's also the -res proc in exploding shuriken which is also procced to do a bit more damage, and caltrops provides another layer of mitigation to buy you some time when things get really heated. Targeting drone provides additional to hit and debuff resistance. These are the reasons I chose weapons mastery rather than mu.

 

As good as EA is, the heal is really more an endurance sustain that you'd put on autofire and energy drain really doesn't add all that much to your overall mitigation, and katana doesn't have any AoE soft control options available. I could go soul mastery for shadowmeld and a snipe and lose out on more AoE options, I could go mu for a snipe and a decent AoE but at the cost of additional mitigation tools, or I can go weapons master and get a mix of tools that help both damage and survival.

[SomeGuy]

Don't discount Kat/Inv. Inv has really really good resists, debuff protection, and can softcap s/l pretty easy. I've done kat/bio, kat/ena, kat/inv. All three are really good combos. Bio is easily the most damage and a lot squishier than the other two. The squish and the damage are noticeable. What you value more is up to you.

 

If that kat/ena is based off a Linea build, he chose ENA for a reason (he made the ROP thing pretty famous). Without RoP, ENA/INV are still both easily more survivable than Bio. I have a LOT of experience with bio. So, that statement is definitely not false. Although I'd like to see his opinion about ENA now without having access to RoP as perma.

 

But I prefer Kat/Inv over Kat/ENA for aesthetics (I can't see my costume all the time as ENA...I know, petty). They are also really close in survivability. But Inv is ridiculously well balanced and can easily hit HP cap when Dull Pain is active.

 

As for ATO2 slotting? Soaring Dragon. SD-GD-GC-SD-SNIPE-GC repeat. That was the chain that got me the best results.

 

Pop in to the Pylon thread. There is a reason why it is all x/bio scrappers in the top 10 melee DPS. Kat/Bio being one of them (using that chain).

 

Current Kat/Inv/Zapp:

 

 

 



 
 

 

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Edited November 22, 2021 by SomeGuy

[Obsinious]

7 hours ago, Nemu said:

Why do you think /bio will do more damage in the real world on a build that skipped flashing steel and where you have to spam divine avalanche, ablative carapace, dNA siphon, and parasitic aura to stay alive?

I had forgotten the build skipped FS and I hadn't fixed it yet.  Though I'm not sure it's fair to say the bio build needs to spam all 4 of those skills to stay alive in most situations. 

 

I do get your point that EA has the flexibility to bring in more damage, though I hadn't really seen examples of people heavily proc slotting on a Katana build.  EA likely fits my theme a little better, so in light of the aforementioned flexibility it does seem like the better choice.  I agree that weapon mastery also offers more flexibility, but it does not fit the theme I'm going for, only Mu or Blaze will work.

 

 

Quote

Don't discount Kat/Inv.

 

I had originally discounted Inv because it doesn't offer any endurance fixing, and I don't intend to take Physical Perfection in this build.  I suppose that it can be fixed at 50 with Ageless, but it seems like it would be sucking wind while leveling and exemp.

[SomeGuy]

56 minutes ago, Obsinious said:

I had originally discounted Inv because it doesn't offer any endurance fixing, and I don't intend to take Physical Perfection in this build.  I suppose that it can be fixed at 50 with Ageless, but it seems like it would be sucking wind while leveling and exemp.

 

I have zero issues. There are also Recover Serums from the P2W that are ridiculously cheap. I have been playing well before Fitness was inherent though. I consider End a non-issue now. But honestly, if you're that worried about End, you should really consider Kat/Rad.

Edited November 22, 2021 by SomeGuy

[Elia87]

20 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

 

I have zero issues. There are also Recover Serums from the P2W that are ridiculously cheap. I have been playing well before Fitness was inherent though. I consider End a non-issue now. But honestly, if you're that worried about End, you should really consider Kat/Rad.

You got a build for a katana/rad scrapper?

[Without_Pause]

I have one level 50 Bio character. I can't think of a desire to make another one, but that might be more due to wanting to try other things out versus me thinking it is bad. It is absolutely using damage to offset being squishier. In the right situations, it can destroy so much. Note, it is a Rad/bio Brute.

 

On the flip side, I believe I have four /ea builds and would blindly roll another if needed. I have thought about rolling a Kat/ea a couple of times.

[Krazie Ivan]

On 11/22/2021 at 8:08 AM, Nemu said:

I chose the +crit proc in GD because it has a longer animation time and longer recharge

^

On 11/22/2021 at 12:09 PM, SomeGuy said:

As for ATO2 slotting? Soaring Dragon.

i didn't always disagree on that.

other reasons to put the +crit Proc in GD:
-- GD already has increased Crit chance.
-- GD is a slower animation, which eats into the Proc's crit window. SD is decently faster, but importantly, enough to allow for up to 3 crit attacks within the window.
-- SD's KU can put targets above GD's reach, resulting in a pause in attack (even with a short pre-hop to help mitigate), or, completely above Lotus if you're looking to boost AoE dmg.
...this last point wouldn't turn up while dicing away at a pylon, but is noticeable with enough hours of regular content.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Krazie Ivan
grammarring is hard!

[SomeGuy]

7 hours ago, Krazie Ivan said:

^

i didn't always disagree on that.

other reasons to put the +crit Proc in GD:
-- GD already has increased Crit chance.
-- GD is a slower animation, which eats into the Proc's crit window. SD is decently faster, but importantly, enough to allow for up to 3 crit attacks within the window.
-- SD's KU can put targets above GD's reach, resulting in a pause in attack (even with a short pre-hop to help mitigate), or, completely above Lotus if you're looking to boost AoE dmg.
...this last point wouldn't turn up while dicing away at a pylon, but is noticeable with enough hours of regular content.

 

Oh, I'm just saying what I do and what works well for me. I don't live on pylons, I only use them as a metric. I have a LOT of time playing Kat. The KU from SD has never been an issue for me. When I fall into an AOE situation I prefer SD over GD because of the ani. time anyways. My chain is SD-GD-GC-SD-Snipe-GC for ST situations. I'd be very curious to see if anyone is getting times with a Kat/Bio similar/better than mine with the proc in GD.  Or a time with any kat/x scrapper with the proc there. I've done enough testing to see how certain armors contribute.