To all the Original CoH players

[RyderOnTheStorm]

What a hero! I salute him for his research.

[_NOPE_]

lolPvP

 

 

 

 

 

...sorry, had to say it. This game was always a PvE game, with PvP just duct taped to the side of it. I suspect it will always be a side show, unless some PvP loving coders do the work to revamp and balance the entire system.

[TerraSecundus]

On the other paw, the Loyola administration REALLY should be embarrassed.

 

Seriously. Like I tried to mention before, were his actions not a violation of ethical standards within academia? I don't think he asked his participants for informed consent.

 

Loyola has guidelines on this here: https://www.luc.edu/sociology/irb_tips.shtml

 

It's also been a while since I read his paper, and I don't know if he addressed those concerns somehow within the paper itself, or if he got permission from Cryptic/Paragon Studios to perform the study. To simply say after the fact that it was all for research is not sufficient and is an abuse of his position.

 

From what it looks like to me, he did the thing that, when I was in graduate school, was drilled into me NOT to do when performing a study: troll people with wanton abandon with a paper-thin veneer of academic legitimacy.

[barrier]

lolPvP

 

 

 

 

 

...sorry, had to say it. This game was always a PvE game, with PvP just duct taped to the side of it. I suspect it will always be a side show, unless some PvP loving coders do the work to revamp and balance the entire system.

 

You keep saying that but have zero info to back it.

 

Let's just put it this way: if you try to draw a zebra and end up with an elephant, yet you continue to call it an elephant, who is the idiot?

 

PVP in CoH, pre-i13 was a work of art. A work of art done by a room full of monkeys typing on keyboards, but nonetheless a work of art.

 

lolPVP under the narrative of "Devs never intended it to be blah blah blah" is just a moronic stance. Nobody cares was Castle intended. It's just irrelevant and has always been irrelevant.

[srmalloy]

You keep saying that but have zero info to back it.

 

Given that PvP wasn't part of CoH until issue 4, and was then restricted to the Arenas, and that the devs entered into an ongoing process of reworking the way powers worked (with the claim that "we won't make PvE changes for PvP reasons", which soon became "we'll try not to make PvE changes for PvP reasons" and then disappeared completely as more and more changes were made to PvE abilities to fix balance issues in PvP -- remember movement suppression?), I think it's pretty clear that CoH was designed from the ground up as a PvE game -- and, in fact, one of the things that attracted me to it in the first place was that it didn't have PvP -- that had PvP plastered to the side as an afterthought.

[_NOPE_]

You keep saying that but have zero info to back it.

 

Given that PvP wasn't part of CoH until issue 4, and was then restricted to the Arenas, and that the devs entered into an ongoing process of reworking the way powers worked (with the claim that "we won't make PvE changes for PvP reasons", which soon became "we'll try not to make PvE changes for PvP reasons" and then disappeared completely as more and more changes were made to PvE abilities to fix balance issues in PvP -- remember movement suppression?), I think it's pretty clear that CoH was designed from the ground up as a PvE game -- and, in fact, one of the things that attracted me to it in the first place was that it didn't have PvP -- that had PvP plastered to the side as an afterthought.

[Obsidius]

As a guy who started on Issue 0, love or hate PvP, you don't have to be smarmy about it.

#jussayin

[barrier]

You keep saying that but have zero info to back it.

 

Given that PvP wasn't part of CoH until issue 4, and was then restricted to the Arenas, and that the devs entered into an ongoing process of reworking the way powers worked (with the claim that "we won't make PvE changes for PvP reasons", which soon became "we'll try not to make PvE changes for PvP reasons" and then disappeared completely as more and more changes were made to PvE abilities to fix balance issues in PvP -- remember movement suppression?), I think it's pretty clear that CoH was designed from the ground up as a PvE game -- and, in fact, one of the things that attracted me to it in the first place was that it didn't have PvP -- that had PvP plastered to the side as an afterthought.

 

Bullshit. There's a video of Posi talking about PVP prior to game launch. It also doesn't take away from the fact that a bunch of monkeys will sooner or later paint the mona lisa if given enough time, paint and brushes.

[Piledriver]

I believe he was an unremarkable troll who was simply ignored and never mentioned by anyone else. He left a mark on the internet only via the time spent trying to spread his own legend, like so many other internet frauds looking to create controversy where it doesn't exist for the sake of a narrative.

 

 

[Yumi Nakama]

He was talking on Twitter just recently about CoH community elites and remembering the lesson of Twixt, I believe.

 

I wonder if he'll show up here, no doubt in some cunning disguise.

[THEDarkTyger]

Bullshit. There's a video of Posi talking about PVP prior to game launch. It also doesn't take away from the fact that a bunch of monkeys will sooner or later paint the mona lisa if given enough time, paint and brushes.

 

Happen to have a link to this interview? Because I recall Jack saying he didn't like the idea of heroes fighting each other. And at that time, Jack was the head honcho.

[_NOPE_]

He was talking on Twitter just recently about CoH community elites and remembering the lesson of Twixt, I believe.

 

I wonder if he'll show up here, no doubt in some cunning disguise.

Nemesis was a Twixt plot.

[barrier]

 

Nemesis was a Twixt plot.

 

You're so annoying. No wonder RO kicked you out.

[Misguidance]

 

Nemesis was a Twixt plot.

 

You're so annoying. No wonder RO kicked you out.

 

That was uncalled for.  You have the ability to scroll past posts, maybe you should try that.

[_NOPE_]

 

Nemesis was a Twixt plot.

 

You're so annoying. No wonder RO kicked you out.

 

That was uncalled for.  You have the ability to scroll past posts, maybe you should try that.

 

Yeah but, to be fair to him, the ability to Ignore people on this forum appears to be missing or well hidden, so I feel his pain.

[Paladin]

I remember him. He liked to say he was doing social experiments, but I think he just got upset when he was KOed in PVP. Talked with him a few times back when and he seemed like an OK guy outside of that.

[tolrick]

I absolutely remember Twixt.  He's part of the reason I stopped going into places like Siren's Call.    He was a troll and griefer, plain and simple.

Social experiments are well and good, I suppose.  Someone has to do it...  But how much of an experiment is it, really, if the observer (Twixt) has his finger on the scale the entire time?  The idea of this stuff is to observe interactions, not manufacture them.

I call his entire so-called paper on the topic a pile of BS.

[WarScribe]

 

Nemesis was a Twixt plot.

 

You're so annoying. No wonder RO kicked you out.

 

 

That was uncalled for.  You have the ability to scroll past posts, maybe you should try that.

 

Yeah but, to be fair to him, the ability to Ignore people on this forum appears to be missing or well hidden, so I feel his pain.

 

Nah, you are pretty annoying. I’m pretty tired of the whole “lolpvp” crap. If you don’t like it, fine. No one needs this passive aggressive bs.

 

Do we know each other Barrier? I feel like I PvPd with you on test/freedom/champion

 

[barrier]

 

Nemesis was a Twixt plot.

 

You're so annoying. No wonder RO kicked you out.

 

 

That was uncalled for.  You have the ability to scroll past posts, maybe you should try that.

 

Yeah but, to be fair to him, the ability to Ignore people on this forum appears to be missing or well hidden, so I feel his pain.

 

Nah, you are pretty annoying. I’m pretty tired of the whole “lolpvp” crap. If you don’t like it, fine. No one needs this passive aggressive bs.

 

Do we know each other Barrier? I feel like I PvPd with you on test/freedom/champion

 

Yessir. You, me and Philly in the Freedom League. I distinctly remember you as one of my favorite people to call targets with.

[WarScribe]

Yessir. You, me and Philly in the Freedom League. I distinctly remember you as one of my favorite people to call targets with.

 

My guy! I thought that was you, but all these years have gone by and I’m old now, so my memory is all “LOL”

 

Hit me up in game @EN3MY 0F M4N

[Victoria Victrix]

So he's still a professor?  Interesting considering that to do this study he violated every single ethics rule there is in psychological research.

 

1. He did not inform the IP owners of the game that he was conducting a study on their players, nor did he get their consent to perform this "study."

2. He did not inform the players that they were participating in a psychological study.

3. He did not bother to find out if any of the players he was bullying were minors.

4. He did not get player consent to participate in the "study."

5. He did not get the consent of minor players' parents to allow them to participate in the "study."

6. He did not offer psychiatric counseling to players who were traumatized by his "study."

 

By all rights he should have lost his job.  He, and Loyola, could have been sued by the company, the players, and the minor players' parents. 

 

The only reason he escaped what would have been an appropriate firing is because he was employed by the mathematics department.  The people in his department are not psychiatric professionals and thus "technically" do not have to abide by the ethics of psychiatric professionals. 

 

Which is a little like someone employed by the mathematics department torturing puppies "for a study", then claiming that they don't have to abide by the ethics of the biology department.  Technically, they don't.  But that doesn't make torturing puppies right.

 

Yes, he got dragged up in front of the Ethics board.  He also lost a book deal.

 

I know this, because I was the one that contacted the Dean and pointed out how the University could have been sued by the players and parents of the minor players.  I contacted the book company and pointed out they could be sued too.  The book company dropped him like a hot rock.  The University wimped out after slapping him on the wrist.

[InvaderStych]

Edited September 6, 2023 by InvaderStych

[High_Beam]

Because why not!

[JasperStone]

He ignored all research protocols, no IRB, and I don't think he contacted anyone of the CoH staff about what he was doing.

 

His "experiment" was one-sided and as has been stated done without consent.

 

I teach at the university level* (meh) You would be surprised by the lengths that you have to go through to get a research project approved.

Especially when it involves people. 

 

Every university has an Institutional Review Board, or IRBs. They review research studies to ensure that they comply with applicable regulations, meet commonly accepted ethical standards, follow institutional policies, and adequately protect research participants. Color me very surprised if he had one. **

 

He screwed with people because there is no rule against it. You don't need an "experiment" to find out that people would be upset. 

@barrier brings up valid points. Twixt played the game one way and because of that invalidates any "results" he felt were achieved.

 

 

But look where games are now. I played Tarkov ... and had my a$$ handed to me. I played the game as intended, others did not... now what?

 

Twixts actions were no different than what these players are currently doing.

 

 

 

*Teaching full-time at a university level doesn't make me smart or better. Just acquired the credentials to do so.

**Depending on his status(tenure protects a lot), they may have let it slide with a Mea culpa/ slap on the wrist.

*** Edited out my harsher criticism

 

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by JasperStone
Edit out criticism

[Spaghetti Betty]