Dual SMG Powerset, from Enforcers (Thugs)

[Shazbotacus]

Playing Thugs makes me jealous of Enforcers' paired machine pistol style. I'd absolutely love it if this could be a powerset for players; at least four attacks already exist with animations.

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, Shazbotacus said:

Playing Thugs makes me jealous of Enforcers' paired machine pistol style. I'd absolutely love it if this could be a powerset for players; at least four attacks already exist with animations.

I mean, they basically have 3 versions of "empty clips" - just shorter or longer animation times to reflect the lower or higher damage...

[Rudra]

Uhm... Dual Pistols... one of the weapon options is SMG....

[Shazbotacus]

Pretty much, there's a lot of variable animations cycled through each power we could make a whole powerset with them. If not, we have the regular Mastermind/Thugs pistols animations to fall on for some well-aimed single target shots or for special effect bullets that do like CC or explode something.

[Shazbotacus]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Uhm... Dual Pistols... one of the weapon options is SMG....

They're really far apart in animations and "rate of fire." They are not the same.

[Rudra]

You get to wield twin SMGs. You have a mix of single shot and twin weapon shot attacks. You even have CC. I don't get how they are not the same.

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, Shazbotacus said:

They're really far apart in animations and "rate of fire." They are not the same.

I agree, but how would you differentiate dual SMGs from dual pistols?  What would be this set's schtick?  Would it be all DoT-based?  Would there be some set-wide special effect for these attacks?  Can you sell me on the set?

[Shazbotacus]

2 minutes ago, biostem said:

I agree, but how would you differentiate dual SMGs from dual pistols?  What would be this set's schtick?  Would it be all DoT-based?  Would there be some set-wide special effect for these attacks?  Can you sell me on the set?

Beyond the full auto effects and not twirling like an idiot, not really. 
Highly cone-intensive AoE? Basically AR already.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Shazbotacus

[Rudra]

So ask for alternate animations for dual pistols that isn't a showman gunslinger performing at a circus.

[Shazbotacus]

I would also accept this. Unless we make a way for powers to "feel right" with some of those burst animations, we're looking at several powers using the "Pistols" animation.
Really much of the work is already done. I admit I don't have any special gimmick in my head for this, but City of Heroes features character concept as a key hook to playing. Katana is literally better Broadsword.
So is it really so bad to ask for something like this?

Edited January 28, 2022 by Shazbotacus

[Alchemystic]

I had a stab at this myself a while back. While there are only 4 dedicated Uzi powers (5 if you count Blast Clip), you can sorta pad out the powerset by adding in some of the animations from other dual-firearms powers common to other NPCs. Add in the traditional 'Aim' power and it helps reduce the amount of powers needed to shore up the numbers.

 

 

[Rudra]

Broadsword power set is a single-handed weapon. The only katana listed is in quotes, presumably because it is not a katana.

 

Katana power set is a two-handed weapon. Though there are weapon style overlaps with broadsword, it is also the only one of the two with katanas in it.

 

The difference here is you are using a one-handed or hand and a half weapon one handed as opposed to a hand and a half or two-handed weapon two-handed. The fighting styles are different.

 

Dual Pistols power set includes dual wielded SMGs as weapon models.

 

Dual SMGs power set would include... uhm... dual wielded SMGs as weapon models?

 

There is no differentiation between Dual Pistols and Dual SMGs as proposed except for a non-silly attack animation that can be requested for Dual Pistols. Come up with something that differentiates Dual SMGs from Dual Pistols other than less silly animations (which I'm sure some of us would like for Dual Pistols anyway).

[MTeague]

I'd like any powerset for handheld firearms that does NOT have Gun-Fu animations.

That said, i'm not holding my breath, and it's like priority #10,594, somewhere after "sort my socks", and "anything else I feel like today".

[Shazbotacus]

I mean, the only differentiation between Katana and Broadsword is activation time, damage, and recharge time and animations. Powers are otherwise the same but one can't use Shield Defense. Oh, and their parry attacks are statistically identical except the animation.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Shazbotacus

[Rudra]

So... the only difference is... uhm... everything? The only two things they have that are the same is whether each attack in the set is single target or not and the final mechanics of each power. As you said, everything else is different. Look, you want a dedicated Dual SMG power set? Fine, but differentiate it from what is already in the game that has dual SMGs, even if SMGs are just model options in the power set. What makes Dual SMGs unique or otherwise different as a set rather than a straight clone of an existing power set that uses different animations? If there is no difference, then there really isn't a point to asking for the set because it already exists. It just needs animations that are more sensible and less... uhm... neurotic....

[Shazbotacus]

Minor differences in attack speed versus damage is hardly "everything." There's a lot more to powers than that: damage type, secondary effect, range, etc, and in powersets between how many AoE powers versus single target, what if any CC availability, you know. I just wanted to say BS and Kat are identical except one is faster. That is really the only difference.
Both have a quick and slow hit. Both have parry. Both have a PBAoE and two melee cones and a single target melee knock up. In the same order.

As for a dual SMG power, that'd also boil down to what each of the powers does. I just kinda gave a prompt. I'll try to flesh out a set and come back with that later.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Shazbotacus

[Marbing]

Katana and BS are essentially the same set with a different look and feel, I've played both. 

That being said, the same could be done with an SMG powerset. Just take the dual pistols idea, change the look and feel. Make all the powers quick DoT instead of one hit (burst vs slug on AR for example) and boom you have a new set that's just like the old set but feels different. Now, how difficult this would be is a different discussion. The animations would almost certainly need to change for several powers if not all. And, there may not be an animation for every power. For example, what animation would you use for the nuke? I suppose you could use the spin from Dual Blades, except of course you are shooting SMGs in a circle around you. May need to slow the animation down a little. Just me thinking in text here at this point... carry on...

Edited January 29, 2022 by th0ughtGun

[arcane]

A new round of pistol animations would be cool. 

 

The proposed new powerset triggers my pet peeve of requesting hyper specific sets with slight variations. Not only are you asking for a ton of work over relatively nothing, but it would clutter up the game needlessly if there’s so little that’s unique about this. To give you an example, another thread I recall that triggered my pet peeve was something like “We have Fire Blast, but here’s a new set called Hellfire Blast.” <- wtf go home you’re drunk.

Edited January 29, 2022 by arcane

[Six-Six]

Or make one hand a gun, the other a blade. 😃

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Six-Six said:

Or make one hand a gun, the other a blade. 😃

*punts Six-Six back to the Swashbuckler thread* I love the gun/sword idea, but we already have a thread on that.

[Six-Six]

Ow. haha. I'll... be... baaaaaaaaackkkkk. 

=D

[merrypessimist]

On 1/29/2022 at 4:57 AM, th0ughtGun said:

Katana and BS are essentially the same set with a different look and feel, I've played both. 
 

 

For at least three months back in 2004 they were literally identical.  Katana's animations and Broadsword's were exactly the same aside from the sword rendered.