Movement Suppression

[Glacier Peak]

31 minutes ago, biostem said:

Obviously the reason for travel suppression is to force people into hover and combat jumping...

No joke, Hover can get fast if the player puts in the work on their build. 

[Naraka]

You all deserve movement suppression because you're cheating.

 

Not only do most of you have unlimited endurance to run multiple travel powers almost all the time, you can even pick up those movement powers as early as lvl 4 (IIRC) AND without having to pick up a prerequisite. 

 

But realistically, this is the appeal of building characters for run speed/jump speed. Those quick-fix powers have to have some drawback while the directed build focus needs to have some perks. 

[srmalloy]

On 3/11/2022 at 7:47 PM, ForeverLaxx said:

In any event, movement suppression is something that allows the PvE in this game to even begin to pose a threat to a player by forcing you to move slower and risk retaliation for engaging a mob.

Oh, there's no 'risk' involved. I've done experiments with my AR/EM Blaster, flying toward spawns in short steps until a noncombat Snipe, with Boost Range active and a tier-4 Cardiac alpha (20% range increase), activates. The Snipe goes off... and I get return fire. There's no 'risk' -- if you can shoot at a mob, you will get shot back at, no matter how long the base range of your power is, and what range increase modifiers you have active. I thought this was an outlier the first time I took fire from a Malta Gunslinger for one-shotting the Sapper next to him back on Live, but then I noticed that I was pretty consistently taking fire from mobs at ranges where I needed Boost Range to hit them.

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, srmalloy said:

Oh, there's no 'risk' involved. I've done experiments with my AR/EM Blaster, flying toward spawns in short steps until a noncombat Snipe, with Boost Range active and a tier-4 Cardiac alpha (20% range increase), activates. The Snipe goes off... and I get return fire. There's no 'risk' -- if you can shoot at a mob, you will get shot back at, no matter how long the base range of your power is, and what range increase modifiers you have active. I thought this was an outlier the first time I took fire from a Malta Gunslinger for one-shotting the Sapper next to him back on Live, but then I noticed that I was pretty consistently taking fire from mobs at ranges where I needed Boost Range to hit them.

You can also just run the Mender arc (Ramiel I think?) with the Freem incarnate powers on that max everything out to test range. 

[aethereal]

9 hours ago, srmalloy said:

Oh, there's no 'risk' involved. I've done experiments with my AR/EM Blaster, flying toward spawns in short steps until a noncombat Snipe, with Boost Range active and a tier-4 Cardiac alpha (20% range increase), activates. The Snipe goes off... and I get return fire. There's no 'risk' -- if you can shoot at a mob, you will get shot back at, no matter how long the base range of your power is, and what range increase modifiers you have active. I thought this was an outlier the first time I took fire from a Malta Gunslinger for one-shotting the Sapper next to him back on Live, but then I noticed that I was pretty consistently taking fire from mobs at ranges where I needed Boost Range to hit them.

This sounds wrong to me, and I just hopped onto a flying Blaster to check.  I didn't test a ton, but I went around and took shots at a few different mobs in Croatoa, they ran around without counterattacking for the most part.  Eventually I did get attacked, and when I went and checked, it turned out that enemy was 71 feet away from me when he used his range attack.

 

It seems deeply unlikely to me that enemies can ignore range.  Their powers have listed ranges (80', usually -- including all Malta Gunslinger powers).  Both in my testing now and just anecdotally in years of experience, I see range respected.  I don't know how the code would work for that -- we know they can't use melee attacks at 100' of range, are we suggesting that there's an exception to the range code for only some powers?

[ForeverLaxx]

On 3/12/2022 at 9:19 AM, A Cat said:

All enemies having ranged attacks already guarantees retaliation though

And most of the time, if you engage a mob quickly or while they "aren't looking" in the direction you came from, you can alpha strike the toughest mob before any of the others queue up their own attack.

 

Movement Suppression is supposed to force you to remain "in range" for those delayed follow-up attacks that constantly happen by the nature of the AI taking a full second to realize you're there, at least for the first time you've aggo'd them. After that, they're much more responsive.

 

That wasn't even really my point anyway. My point was that people blame PvP for it when it's proven, time and again, that the devs wanted something to discourage the use of travel powers while in combat since before PvP even existed. Before suppression, you had to deal with a large -ToHit penalty. You should really be glad that's not still how it works, in my opinion.

Edited March 14, 2022 by ForeverLaxx

[Deadlymantis]

2 hours ago, ForeverLaxx said:

Before suppression, you had to deal with a large -ToHit penalty. You should really be glad that's not still how it works, in my opinion.

 

Large enough that anyone with Superspeed also essentially had toggled Super Reflexes.  It was very broken.

 

Line-of-Sight blocking is probably the best way to get off free attacks without reprisal.  It's something that's always been in the game and quite a useful tactic.

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Deadlymantis

[tidge]

On 3/11/2022 at 3:06 PM, PeregrineFalcon said:

Some of the PvPers want to continue the practice from the retail forums of defending PvP by insisting "the devs only ever nerfed ONE power because of PvP." But, unless they're psychic, or they were actually on the dev team, they can't possibly know that. Maybe Mac's right, or maybe the retail devs nerfed a ton of powers because of PvP. We'll never know. And they'll never know either, but they continue to insist that they do know.

 

It always felt to me that Energy Melee was toned down because of PvP, especially the Stun aspect. I couldn't tell you when I started to get this feeling, but I have vague memories of early issue 7... such as taking my Day 1 Inv/EM tank int Recluse's Victory and getting dog-piled, but surviving partially because I had done "silly" things like slotting attacks for the stun component (and also taking Stun)... There were so many tweaks relative to this combo (Unyielding, stunned enemies zipping off at hypersonic speeds) you will have to forgive my possibly faulty memory.

[battlewraith]

4 hours ago, tidge said:

 

It always felt to me that Energy Melee was toned down because of PvP, especially the Stun aspect. I couldn't tell you when I started to get this feeling, but I have vague memories of early issue 7... such as taking my Day 1 Inv/EM tank int Recluse's Victory and getting dog-piled, but surviving partially because I had done "silly" things like slotting attacks for the stun component (and also taking Stun)... There were so many tweaks relative to this combo (Unyielding, stunned enemies zipping off at hypersonic speeds) you will have to forgive my possibly faulty memory.

 

I think that's just a weird feeling you have. I used to duo with my friend's Inv/Em tank in zones back then. The thing that made EM a good choice for pvp was burst damage, not stun. Slotting for stun would've been counterproductive.