Returning Player Titan Weapon Discussion

[Kodo]

I have a 50 +1 TW/Bio Scrapper and I returned to find that it's nerfed. I don't have any special enhancements on it so I'm not one of those that reached godlike status on TW. I've been back for about a month and haven't seen 1 single TW lol.

Here's my thoughts on it though, because the official feedback thread in beta is closed.

 

The two biggest problems for me is:

1. Reduced Melee Range with Whirlwind. From 15ft to 10ft. My favorite part about TW is the reach that is has over the other melee weapons. I honestly can't fully enjoy the other melee builds because it feels like I have to stand on enemies toes to hit them and that just throws me off. So without even reading the patch notes, I kept thinking "damn... did they nerf the reach?". It's more of a playstyle impact for me. 

 

2. Skills got slower... Even if, only by 0.1 second, the slowest animation set/playstyle in the game got slower... And you 100% can feel it. Again, It's more of a playstyle impact for me. It definitely feels slower.

 

I don't care if they'd nerfed damaged but to me, the most fun part about TW is the reach. & Slowing the swing time down even if only a little bit, is unfortunate and you can feel it's slower. Both of these nerfs affect the fun of the TW-playstyle. They should have just nerfed the damage imo. 

But definitely the craziest part is, I've been back for about a month and haven't seen 1 single TW lol...

 

 

Here's the official patch notes:

 

Powerset Revamp: Titan Weapons

Titan Weapons was released less than a year before the game shut down, and never had the opportunity for much follow-up work. The set suffers from two problems. Firstly, the mechanics of the set make the set difficult to get started with. Secondly, when fully built, Titan Weapons massively overperforms compared to other melee set in almost every metric.

 

We've gone ahead and removed the arbitrary bonus damage the set has (bringing it in line with the standard damage formulas) in order to reign in the maximum performance bar the set can hit, whilst also refining the Momentum mechanic and redraw animations in order to reduce the clunkiness of the set.

 

Set Changes

• Removed arbitrary bonus damage from all attacks (roughly 8-10%)
• Now has the same redraw rules as Katana, and will only play an interruptible draw animation under the following conditions:
  • Out of combat
  • Out of range from the target
  • Power still has not recharged
• Whilst Momentum is active, all Titan Weapons attacks will:
  • Recharge 25% faster, with proportional damage and endurance cost reduction per the standard damage formulas
  • Have an additional 25% endurance cost reduction
• Momentum is now granted even if the attack misses all targets

Power Changes

•  Titan Sweep
  • Fast version cast time increased from 1s to 1.1s
•  Follow Through
  • Cast time increased from 1s to 1.1s
  • No longer inflicts additional damage over time
•  Confront / Taunt
  • Cast time reduced from 1.96s to 1.67s
•  Whirling Smash
  • Radius lowered from 15ft to 10ft (however, it remains at 15ft for Tankers)
  • No longer inflicts additional damage over time
•  Arc of Destruction
  • Recharge reduced from 20s to 16s
  • Damage decreased accordingly (per the standard damage formulas)
  • Fast version cast time shortened from 1.5s to 1.37s

 

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

They honestly should have stopped after doing this:

•  Removed arbitrary bonus damage from all attacks (roughly 8-10%)

 

But This is over-nerfing in the wrong direction because it affects fun-playability:

 

•  Titan Sweep
  • Fast version cast time increased from 1s to 1.1s
•  Follow Through
  • Cast time increased from 1s to 1.1s
  • No longer inflicts additional damage over time
•  Whirling Smash
  • Radius lowered from 15ft to 10ft (however, it remains at 15ft for Tankers)
  • No longer inflicts additional damage over time

 

 

This along with the other green text^ = okay, you wanted to nerf it, that's a nerf.

•  Arc of Destruction
  • Recharge reduced from 20s to 16s
  • Damage decreased accordingly (per the standard damage formulas)
  • Fast version cast time shortened from 1.5s to 1.37s

 

 

This is useless to scrappers (imo). It's as if, they're saying "we nerfed this class but we need to create a +buff to balance the nerfs"

 

•  Confront / Taunt
  • Cast time reduced from 1.96s to 1.67s

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

So conclusion. They definitely nerfed the hello out of the damage. It's very noticeable & I understand that I guess.

But the Red Highlights should be reverted. I honestly would have taken this mentality "we nerfed this class but we need to create a +buff to balance the nerfs" and did this instead:
 

•  Titan Sweep
  • Fast version cast time Decreased from 1s to 0.9s
•  Follow Through
  • Cast time Decreased from 1s to 0.9s

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

It's hard to say if it's unplayable... but again, I've been back for about a month and haven't seen 1 single TW lol...

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by MasThoven17

[Neiska]

I prefer the last version of TW personally. It was a bit over tuned, no argument there. But IMO I think they over corrected it. I mean, if I want ST damage, I can take something like Energy Melee, if I want AoE I can take something else. TW used to be a solid middle of the road (for damage type) while being consistently good at both, now? It's kind of lackluster, at least to me. I mean, why would I put up with TW clunkiness now if it's not even the top damage do-er anymore?

 

I also suspect that how good TW is/was, really depended a lot on what sort of AT you were - Scrapper, Brute, Tanker, so on. But yes, I too have noticed a huge dip in TW since the change, to the point I rarely see one now. I see more psi melee and staff fighting now than TW. Well, if they wanted to entice players to play other things, I guess they succeeded. Still think they over corrected it, the refigured mechanic feels even more unwieldy and awkward without the satisfying CRUNCH payout.

 

Just my two cents.

[Bopper]

15 minutes ago, MasThoven17 said:

1. Reduced Melee Range with Whirlwind. From 15ft to 10ft. My favorite part about TW is the reach that is has over the other melee weapons. I honestly can't fully enjoy the other melee builds because it feels like I have to stand on enemies toes to hit them and that just throws me off. So without even reading the patch notes, I kept thinking "damn... did they nerf the reach?". It's more of a playstyle impact for me. 

 

2. Skills got slower... Even if, only by 0.1 second, the slowest animation in the game got slower... And you 100% can feel it. Again, It's more of a playstyle impact for me. It definitely feels slower

 

In regards to 1)

Most PBAoEs are 8 ft radius. So you still have 25% more reach than what most sets get.

 

In regards to 2)

Titan Sweep (fast) and Follow Through got 0.1s slower while Arc of Destruction (fast) got 0.13s faster. I'm not sure what you meant by the slowest animation in the game got slower, though. 

[Redletter]

Wait... theyre NERFING Titan Weapons damage?

 

Why? That's like... the ONE upside about it. Why would I play TW when it's infinitely more ponderous, both in it's special mechanic and in it's basic animations than ANY other set besides like, Kinetic Melee?

 

This is like... "Ok, so, Scrappers can CRIT? That seems unfair, it means they do MORE damage than other classes? So we're taking away crits, makes NO sense why they need them".

[InvaderStych]

3 minutes ago, Redletter said:

Wait... theyre NERFING Titan Weapons damage?

 

Nope. Breathe. 😛

 

OP is referring to the change that happened in November of 2020, Issue 27, Page 1.

 

They've been away for a while.

 

Before the revamp TW was above and beyond ludicrous.

 

 

[SomeGuy]

I agree with everything you wrote up. I've said everything there, just never once as succinctly. The set ABSOLUTELY needed to be toned down in damage, but the mechanics were changed? Da f...., why? The set still does good damage, but that requires a LOT of skill to pull off. Just like sub 1 minute times with it did before (and these were an exception and NOT the norm).  The way the set is now, it's not worth getting THAT good with the set just to have middling performance whereas other sets aren't a fraction as complex yet do much better numbers.

 

So before the nerf I found myself not wanting to play the set because it created the feeling of WHY BOTHER WITH ANYTHING ELSE. Now? It's because it's just not worth the investment. You still have to invest SO MUCH IO wise to get OK performance and THEN you have to be REALLY good at playing the game and getting the most out of the set. Where you could just do a different set and get better performance for a fraction of the skill demand involved.

 

The set definitely needed it's damage toned down. No argument about the radius change for Whirlwind. But the rest of the mechanics changes? Jeez. The attack rotation was massively simplified but also put right in that bubble of not being good. I've played the set since it was released before shutdown. Little things make a HUGE difference. There are a lot of little things that make this set a ghost of what it was.

[Without_Pause]

While the PBAoE change sucks, it is understandable in terms of the Tank changes with their radius increase versus other melee ATs. Now, why a Tank can magically reach 50% farther than other ATs including Brutes, well, that's an odd way to do game balance, IMO.

 

P.S. It is quite remarkable just how bad game balance is in this game for how much I like the game itself. 

[SomeGuy]

56 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

While the PBAoE change sucks, it is understandable in terms of the Tank changes with their radius increase versus other melee ATs. Now, why a Tank can magically reach 50% farther than other ATs including Brutes, well, that's an odd way to do game balance, IMO.

 

P.S. It is quite remarkable just how bad game balance is in this game for how much I like the game itself. 

 

I know the answer to that question in your first paragraph.

 

As to your question in your P.S.? It's a game about being a Super Hero/Villain. I never understood some things trying to bring this to the City of Everquest playstyle. I'm not disagreeing by any means, I just find it funny. I think I'm just typing as I think. I smell toast...

[Kodo]

On 3/27/2022 at 10:27 PM, Bopper said:

 

In regards to 1)

Most PBAoEs are 8 ft radius. So you still have 25% more reach than what most sets get.

So I'm playing TW anyways because I've tried the other melees and for me TW is just the most fun, I love it. 

I can say though, there's something off with  Whirling Smash. It seems like I have to be on top of the mobs for it to hit. If the other attacks are 10ft, this one doesn't feel like 10ft at all. Maybe it's suspicious paranoia, idk, but I've trained myself to scoot up closer to the mobs when using this power now.