Regen and an epic'ed out build

[Troo]

10 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Ok, I tried. I can see, based on that fire/regen brute's performance, how on a scrapper, cycling between IH, Rune, MoG, Shadow Meld and Hybrid Melee, you could make a pretty damn tough nut to crack. Or get similar performance from another armor without the need of Rune and Shadow Meld and go with Hybrid Assault for more damage. My overall opinion of regen remains unchanged.

 

at least you are dependably consistent.

 

it is troo that high level regen tactics could be used on other sets just as easily on other sets as well as other ATs to some degree. don't forget demon aura.

[Bill Z Bubba]

10 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

at least you are dependably consistent.

 

it is troo that high level regen tactics could be used on other sets just as easily on other sets as well as other ATs to some degree. don't forget demon aura.

 

Diabolical Aura would be an awesome armor.

 

T1: Avernus - Toggle SL Resist and Defense

T2: Dis - Passive +Recovery and +HP

T3: Minaruos - Toggle Knock/Immobilize Protection Negative Nrg Resist and Defense

T4: Phlegethos - Toggle Hold/Fear Protection Fire Resist and Defense

T5: Stygia - Toggle Sleep/Disorient Protection and Cold Resist and Defense

T6: Malbolge - Passive +Regen and +Recharge

T7: Maladomini - Toggle Damage Aura Fire/Lethal/NegNrg

T8: Cania - Click Slow/Confuse Melee AoE

T9: Nessus - Click +Damage, +Resist (All) and +Defense (All,) permable with high up front end cost

 

Wait, did you mean Fiery Aura? Honestly, while I was in that ITF, I was reminded of how it went for my fire/nrg tank. Same basic ride, debuffs are death.

 

[Troo]

22 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Wait, did you mean Fiery Aura?

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

 

Oh yea. Up 1min down 9min and unaffected by global recharge, right?

[Troo]

7 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Oh yea. Up 1min down 9min and unaffected by global recharge, right?

 

Yep.

An additional oh shit button to bridge the Instant Healing gap. Very handy when the recharge debuffs are piled high and the usual selection may be unavailable.

[Blackjoy]

On 7/2/2022 at 12:48 AM, Troo said:

It’s not me saying this but

it appeared that Super Reflexes can be the worst too..

Now isn't that interesting.  I had to deal with a small gang of trolls when I tried to bring attention to /SR as an underperforming set.    But essentially nobody could understand the difference between what /SR can do and what off-AT mitigation can do.  I pointed out, based on observation, that /SR was probably in the bottom three of scrapper secondaries, and I was told I was I was clueless.  And while this post of yours doesn't prove it, it certainly lends credence to my assessment of the situation and exposes a lack of observational skills in others.

 

On 7/2/2022 at 5:12 AM, Haijinx said:

ulz SR with only SO's 

 

Why would you play that way?

Right...because everyone starts their /SR with 100m on an alt they just transfer over, or they  broadcast on /LFG "Available as a sitter!"   I couldn't even afford SO's leveling up.  I ran DO"s or had to get lucky getting cheap IO's. 

 

On 7/2/2022 at 4:50 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

Now they need to run the exact same test with Tough. Then again with Weave. Etc, etc.

The outcome is fairly obvious.  Any +DEF powers will stack /SR's +DEF and when the build reaches softcap, It'll have 95% mitigation from +DEF.   We know how 95% defense performs because of other sets can do it.   Tough will marginally improve /SR's performance, but if /SR's +DEF isn't capped, Tough isn't really going to to do much.  Go visit  that IDF 4x8 without Tough and you won't notice a difference with it.

 

On 7/2/2022 at 12:48 AM, Troo said:

Lastly, Super Reflexes even with 30% def to all positions would often just need a few hits to be taken down.

The reason why more people don't realize how bad this set performs is because of the "I win" equation.   /SR only has to last long enough to reach the crossover point, that being when you've killed enough of the spawn that the incoming dps is low enough your chance of defeat drops precipitously.  This also why /SR sucks agains AVs and EBs because the crossover point doesn't occur until you defeat the encounter i.e. You never lower the incoming dps until the AV is dead. 

 

 

 

[Stormwalker]

49 minutes ago, Blackjoy said:

Now isn't that interesting.  I had to deal with a small gang of trolls when I tried to bring attention to /SR as an underperforming set.    But essentially nobody could understand the difference between what /SR can do and what off-AT mitigation can do.  I pointed out, based on observation, that /SR was probably in the bottom three of scrapper secondaries, and I was told I was I was clueless.  And while this post of yours doesn't prove it, it certainly lends credence to my assessment of the situation and exposes a lack of observational skills in others.

 

 

I'm just going to point out here that you are calling those of us who disagreed with you "a gang of trolls" when you were the one throwing out insults at someone who wasn't even part of the discussion, and leave it at that.  Oh, yes, and then insisted you were justified in doing so when you were called out on it.  To the point that the thread had to be locked.

 

Well, no, I'm not going to leave it at that, because there's one more thing I need to say.  The fact that you call us "a gang of trolls" because we have the temerity to disagree with you says a whole lot about your attitude.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Stormwalker

[Blackjoy]

You were actually the one person attempted to be have an actual discussion and I fully appreciated that, so no, I wasn't including you in that group. 

 

And no, I didn't "throw out" insults, and no, it had nothing to do with "disagreeing" with me, you are resorting to hyperbole and adding in ad hominem.   When the first response to a detail post on why /SR needs to be examined is someone saying they are "shitcanning" the OP because they got the power orders wrong, I would call that text book trolling.   Sorry that offends you.  But go reread that thread and look at all the pages of asinine responses people posted before the last topic even came up.  Most of them didn't even understanding the issue, you and Bill were the only two to concede anything.   Apologies to anyone who posted in good faith and I forgot to acknowledge.

 

I'm in this thread to talk about scrapper secondaries.  How they work and how they are perceived and how people react to them.   The misinformation and misconceptions that surround sets is, for me, part of that discussion.  My focus in this thread is primarily /Regen, but that invariably involves comparing it to other sets and how they are perceived.   

Edited July 4, 2022 by Blackjoy

[Stormwalker]

3 hours ago, Blackjoy said:

You were actually the one person attempted to be have an actual discussion and I fully appreciated that, so no, I wasn't including you in that group. 

 

 

Well, I appreciate you saying that, but I do think there were others in that discussion who were legitimately trying to engage on the topic besides just me.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that branding a bunch of people as trolls doesn't really help in creating constructive discussion.

 

At any rate, I've already said everything I have to say on the subject of /SR, and at this point I've pretty much made all the suggestions I have with regard to /Regen, too, so at this point I'm just monitoring the thread to see if anyone else has any suggestions that I think merit further discussion.

[Bill Z Bubba]

7 hours ago, Blackjoy said:

This also why /SR sucks agains AVs and EBs because the crossover point doesn't occur until you defeat the encounter i.e. You never lower the incoming dps until the AV is dead. 

 

More proof you have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about.

[Stormwalker]

17 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

More proof you have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about.

 

I didn't even notice that statement.

 

Yeah, I never had any particular problems soloing AV's on my Claws/SR on live (haven't done it yet on Homecoming, but that's because I still haven't quite finished her build yet.  Though I'm quite sure I could do it as she is now,; she's probably already stronger now than she was on Live)

[Blackjoy]

5 hours ago, Stormwalker said:

Well, I appreciate you saying that, but I do think there were others in that discussion who were legitimately trying to engage on the topic besides just me.

 

9 hours ago, Blackjoy said:

Apologies to anyone who posted in good faith and I forgot to acknowledge.

 

 

3 hours ago, Stormwalker said:

Yeah, I never had any particular problems soloing AV's on my Claws/SR on live (haven't done it yet on Homecoming, but that's because I still haven't quite finished her build yet.  Though I'm quite sure I could do it as she is now,; she's probably already stronger now than she was on Live)

So as I have said many times, there's a fundamental difference between what you're doing as a result of /SR and what you're doing as result of an individual build.  This is essentially the same argument that Kopok is making for why he thinks /Regen should be improved.   Reread what Troo posted.   /SR comes in dead least at survival time.   If you are beating AVs, it's not because of /SR, it's because of all the off-AT mitigation that is adding nearly an order of magnitude more survivability.    Let's look at some simple math.

 

Defense is Schedule B, that means you're capped at 60% benefit from enhancements.   At theoretical max, that's 31.2% from Toggle and Passives, which equals 62.4% mitigation.  If you have 100 hit points, that's changing your "effective health" (looks at Kopok) to about 266 hit points.  But if you can use power pools, set bonuses, or +DEF from a primary attack, to get to cap, you have an effective health of 2000 hps.  Any scrapper build that can get to 95% mitigation on +DEF is getting the exact same benefit, on top top of their inherent forms of mitigation. 

 

But the cap for an AV is not 95%.  Mob type and level raise it's accuracy.   IIRC, when I fought a +0 AV, they still had a 7.xxx% to hit.  Lowering the cap from .95 to .925 drops that 2000 hp scrapper down to 1333.  Dropping 2.5% defense at the cap takes away 1/3 of your health.   Now let's take that a theoretical /regen build that had +25% defense (50% mitigation) and faced that same  AV?   They lose 5% of their effective health vs the 33% of the capped /SR.  

 

At lvl 50, if a scrapper has around 1800 hps, .95 mitigation raises the EH to 36,000 hp.   Dropping that mitigation 2% lowers the capped build's EH down to 25700.   How long does it take an AV to punch through 25k in hp?  How many HP's do AV's have?  How long does it take you to beat the AV's effective health? 

 

That extra accuracy of AVs is devastating to /SRs or any build that strictly relies on +DEF.   And at the AV damage levels, the passives resistances are doing almost nothing.   So if you're claws/SR is having no trouble soloing AVs....which I would love to see, if you are on Excelsior, then it's because your damage output is tremendous (massive +recharge allowing you to cycle your T9 primary), or  you've got lots of other forms of mitigation (heal procs, +RES, primary heals, substantial set IO +Regen).   And to be clear, I can solo some +2 AVs as well, so this is isn't about whether you can do it with /SR, it's that you're not doing it because of /SR.  

 

I'm going to repeat what I've said several times before.   /SR does well in the eyes of player (Translation: lvl 50 content)  because it's the easiest set to get to the 95% defense cap at lvl 50.   The build is easy to make.  It's super easy to stack on almost 15% +DEF from Weave, Maneuvers, and Combat Jumping.   Contrast that with /Regen which is relatively hard to get to the +DEF cap.  And as others have pointed out, the power pools don't have a bunch of +Regen in them.   Certainly not half as much as +Regen as /SR can get +DEF.   Same is true for +RES.  Outside of S/L, it's comparatively hard to find enough +RES to even get to 75% resistance across all damage types.

 

But yeah, if you're on Excelsior, I'd love to see you solo some AVs.

 

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

23 minutes ago, Blackjoy said:

But yeah, if you're on Excelsior, I'd love to see you solo some AVs.

 

24 minutes ago, Blackjoy said:

And to be clear, I can solo some +2 AVs as well, so this is isn't about whether you can do it with /SR, it's that you're not doing it because of /SR.  

 

What's the point in showing you? You'll state it's just everything that's NOT part of super reflexes that's making it possible.

[Stormwalker]

1 hour ago, Blackjoy said:

 

But yeah, if you're on Excelsior, I'd love to see you solo some AVs.

 

 

 

First, I'm not, so that's moot.

 

Second, I'm not interested in examining a powerset in a vacuum, because that isn't how the game is played.  I've said that before.  What I am interested is the performance that can be attained with a particular powerset while making use of all the resources that are available to me, within the scope of my character concept.  And when you examine /SR in that light - which is the only light that matters to me, because it's the only one that actually impacts my gameplay experience - /SR performs very well.

 

Every high-end character build makes use of pool powers and IO's.  This is the way the game is designed to work!  You aren't supposed to be running around with just your primary and secondary powers.  You can't even actually do that!  You have to take some pool powers, because your primary and secondary only have 9 powers and you get 24 power picks!  Taking pool powers is mandatory.  When you try to look at just a primary and secondary powerset, you are working with a hypothetical situation that cannot actually exist in the game.

 

A build is the sum total of everything that goes into it.  The armor set provides the foundation of your survival, and then you build upon that armor set with pool powers and IO's to enrich it.  How an armor set synergizes with pool powers and IO's to enable a successful build is a characteristic off the armor set and not something that can be divorced from the armor set., which is something you are repeatedly trying to do.

 

The quality of an armor set isn't determined purely by the powers in the armor set, but by the sum total of what you can achieve using that armor set and the other resources at your command.  With /SR, you can achieve a hell of a lot.  Not quite as much as you can with /Energy Aura or /Shield Defense, but nonetheless quite a lot.

 

If you go back and read my posts about /Regen, you will notice that I have two complaints about /Regen.

• Fragility - /Regen's lack of debuff resistance makes it excessively prone to debuff-induced collapse of the set.  This prevents the set from every consistently achieving the kind of performance that the raw math suggests it ought to be able to, because nearly every enemy type in the high level game throws some kind of debuff at you, and /Regen is vulnerable to them all, on top of its unique vulnerability to spike damage - a vulnerability no other set has, because every other set is built around mitigating a large portion of incoming damage rather than simply taking most of it and then healing it as /Regen does.
• Lack of build flexibility - the fact that Regen pushes you into taking powers like Shadow Meld and Rune of Protection inhibits your ability to make a truly custom build, and can be severely limiting to the ultimate potential of character concepts that don't allow for those two powers.  Note that these are powers I specifically take on a /Regen in addition to the usual Fighting Pool, Combat Jumping, etc. that I take on every scrapper because the Regenner won't be successful at the high end without them.  Now, you may be wondering:  if I say that the only thing that interests me is the "performance that can be attained with a particular powerset while making use of all the resources available to me, within the scope of my character concept", then why am I bothered that /Regen pushes me into those particular power picks?  That would be because of the "within the scope of my character concept" part of that statement. I'm never going to play a Scrapper who can't take Tough or Weave.  Those powers represent skills that can be obtained via practice, and are open to pretty much anyone - and certainly open to anyone who is a melee combatant by trade.  Shadow Meld and Rune of Protection are much harder to fit into a concept.  This means that some of my /Regen characters, like my mutant Broadsword/Regen Praetorian whose powers revolve around a highly accelerated metabolism, will never be able to perform at as high a level as I would like, because she can't take the powers needed to perform at that level.  This is never a problem for me with /SR, where all I need to succeed is Tough, Weave, and either Combat Jumping or Hover, plus a decent IO build.  EDIT: Actually, I just remembered, I don't even necessarily need that much.  Someone posted a suggested build recently for Claws/SR that softcaps all positions without Weave.  I don't do it that way, but I could.

Note that neither of these complaints claim that Regen can't perform at a high level.  I know it can because I've done it.  I also know you have to invest more resources and more effort into accomplishing that than with any other scrapper armor set, and yet in practice Regen is still not the strongest, at least in solo play (even if the numbers say it should be, once you have put in all that effort) because of the set's fragility (as defined above).  Having to put in more work than any other set, and not getting the best possible performance in return for that work, is a strike against /Regen.  Does it make the set unplayable?  Not fo rme; I have several /Regens and I enjoy them.  But /Regen could and should be better than it is for the amount of effort and resources you have to put into it to make it work.

 

What I don't understand is why you seem to think it's a problem that /SR needs to add mitigation from outside the powerset, and yet you don't seem to think it's a problem that /Regen needs to add much more mitigation from outside the powerset than /SR does?!  This, confuses me greatly.

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Stormwalker

[kelika2]

i went ahead and did this and accidentally 200% rech with hasten

 

its ok

[Blackjoy]

On 7/4/2022 at 1:10 PM, Stormwalker said:

I'm not interested in examining a powerset in a vacuum, because that isn't how the game is played.

At no point did I suggest you fight an AV naked.  

 

On 7/4/2022 at 1:10 PM, Stormwalker said:

What I am interested is the performance that can be attained with a particular powerset while making use of all the resources that are available to me

First, the devs aren't going to balance the sets based on all the resources you have available to you.  Second, the more off-AT mitigation you add when you start talking about "performance" the less you are talking about the AT and the more you are talking about the resources.  It's like balancing a set, any set, based on all the inspirations you can take at any one time.   Sure, that's a metric, but it's essentially useless in terms of understanding the problems or issues with a set.

 

On 7/4/2022 at 1:10 PM, Stormwalker said:

Taking pool powers is mandatory.  When you try to look at just a primary and secondary powerset, you are working with a hypothetical situation that cannot actually exist in the game.

You are conflating the fact that you have to take power pools, with the fact that you have to choose the powers that offer direct mitigation.  The first is a fact, the second is not.  One of the very specific things the HC developers said is that they want to preserve "choice."    You, in this very post, are complaining that /Regen doesn't have sufficient choice in achieving extreme performance.   Bt the same thing can be said for any AT.  How many scrappers feel they can reach the higher levels skipping the Fighting Pool, skipping RoP, Shadowmeld?  So you are essentially arguing about subjective degrees of freedom in build choice.  Not really actionable.

 

But you know what is actionable?  Seeing naked /SR come in dead last in survival time against other naked sets.  Fixing that problem opens up build choice.

 

At level 42, my Savage/Regen is using zero power pool mitigation and fighting +3s.  I can absolutely be a lvl 50 scrapper with zero set bonuses, accolades, and power pool mitigation.  So please stop resorting to hyperbole. 

 

 

On 7/4/2022 at 1:10 PM, Stormwalker said:

How an armor set synergizes with pool powers and IO's to enable a successful build is a characteristic off the armor set and not something that can be divorced from the armor set., which is something you are repeatedly trying to do.

That's actually 100% wrong.   You cannot identify synergies if you do not know the baseline.  If you don't know that /SR goes from dead last naked to top 3 with power pools, then you'll have zero understanding of what the power pools are doing.  If you can't see that /Regen goes from #2 to dead last, you won't see how unbalanced the power pools are for certain sets.  If you are trying to improve the balance of the game, you have to break it down in to its constituent parts.  Something you seem to repeatedly not understand.

 

On 7/4/2022 at 1:10 PM, Stormwalker said:

• Fragility - /Regen's lack of debuff resistance makes it excessively prone to debuff-induced collapse of the set.  This prevents the set from every consistently achieving the kind of performance that the raw math suggests it ought to be able to, because nearly every enemy type in the high level game throws some kind of debuff at you, and /Regen is vulnerable to them all, on top of its unique vulnerability to spike damage - a vulnerability no other set has, because every other set is built around mitigating a large portion of incoming damage rather than simply taking most of it and then healing it as /Regen does.

 

This is an assertion, not a fact, and one I think is inaccurate  I'll try my own assertion:  /Regen underperforms because it's one of the only set where the majority of the performance is active.  /Regen, unlike a set lke /SR or /WP, relies upon the player's ability to understand the game.  In fact, I'm not the only who sees it that way.  From GM Coldspark:

 

Quote

Regen has always been an option I look at when I want a slightly different playstyle. So many of our sets work around avoiding or mitigating damage altogether which more often than lot allows players to focus on the offensive powerset wheraes with regen you've arguably got to be more on the ball, choosing when to deploy your big "hitting" heals. 

 

Emphasis mine.   /Regen will always underperform because it relies on a human to be effective.   And as you move to the extreme end of the bell curve, the limitations of human reaction time and information process become more of a factor.   Sure, there are other ways to compensate, give it more mitigation in whatever form.  Remove all the things it is suppose to be weak against.  

 

The problem isn't that /Regen is "fragile," far from it.  The problem is that power pool and set IO mitigation heavily favors +DEF.  And any set that can get close to the cap gets exponentially more benefit.   Set the +DEF cap at 75% (which is still 15% above what SR can achieve naked)  and let's see how many people are lauding /SR...lol.

On 7/4/2022 at 1:10 PM, Stormwalker said:

What I don't understand is why you seem to think it's a problem that /SR needs to add mitigation from outside the powerset, and yet you don't seem to think it's a problem that /Regen needs to add much more mitigation from outside the powerset than /SR does?!  This, confuses me greatly.

1.  At no point did I say it's a "problem"  You are still not fundamentally understanding the issue.

 

2.  Level 50 is not the end-all be-all of what the devs should be focused on.   If a player abandons their /SR or /DA or whatever at lvl 26 because it's a slog, then it doesn't matter what happens at lvl 50.   Back when the devs nerfed and then rebalanced /Regen in i4, one of the arguments they rejected was that /regen being god at high level was balanced considering it was god-awful at low level.  No.  The sets should, as much as possible, be consistent.   The fact that /SR is arguably overpowered at lvl 50 because of the bias of +DEF is no more correct than it being painful at lvl 30. 

 

3.  One dev outright stated they want to examine the effect the power pools are having.  It should take them all of 2 hours to figure out there is way too much +DEF in the game.  It's one reason why /Shield is considered Overpowered, it can both cap +DEF and get darn close on +RES.    I'm guessing /WP can do the same.   If they lower the +DEF cap to like 75%, then let's see how great you think /SR is.  So if your opinion of /SR changes when no changes were actually made to the set, it says you aren't actually understanding the set at all.  

 

IMO, there is nothing wrong with /Regen.  The issue arises because:

 

1)  Player expectations of where the set needs to be balanced (4x8 solo) are unrealistic with the game's design.  Lower player expectation and the human reaction limit on /regen will be less of a factor.

 

2) The +DEF cap is too high for scrappers (and probably everyone).  The easier any set can reach the DEF cap, the more resources it can devote to layered mitigation.  I'd lower scrappers and Tanks to 75% and everyone else to 60%.  Then raise it a bit if you have to. 

 

3) Make the soft cap a hard cap.   Right now, doing Incarnate content at 4x8, you absolutely benefit from exceeding the softcap.  Remove that and +DEF won't rule mitigation choices.

 

And that leads me to ask, why was the DEF cap set so high?  Was it so Force field buffs would feel more substantial?  Sonic wasn't around at launch.   Was it for Ice Tankers?

Edited July 5, 2022 by Blackjoy

[Brutal Justice]

45 minutes ago, Blackjoy said:

2) The +DEF cap is too high for scrappers (and probably everyone).

I crunched all the numbers a long time ago.  40% defense hard cap is the magic you’re looking for.

[Stormwalker]

1 hour ago, Blackjoy said:

<actual quote snipped for brevity, since I don't have time to address each point individually> 

 

I'm going to be blunt, and... well, not really brief because I am not good at that.  But brief by my standards at least.

 

You and I fundamentally disagree.  On basically every one of your points.  We aren't going to find agreement, because not only are our viewpoints different, our objectives are different.

 

You want to dramatically change the game.  Don't even try to claim that you don't, because when you start talking about altering the defense cap, you are talking about dramatically changing the game.

 

I don't.  I like the game the way it is.  I'm quite satisfied with it in its current state.  Am I saying that it's perfect?  Certainly not.  A perfect multiplayer game has never existed and never will.  Certainly there are some small things that I would like to see changed.  But large, sweeping changes to the game such as changing the defense cap will completely blow up the balance equation, at which point we will have to start all over again from square 1, and by the time it's reasonably balanced again (remembering that we have a volunteer dev team who are not getting paid for this!) I will be old and grey (I'm already not young, and neither is anyone else who's been playing since the early days of Live!) and probably not playing MMO's anymore.  Hell, Star Citizen might be out before that happens!  I'll pass on big changes, thanks.

 

Rearranging the power order of scrapper SR so the AoE defense comes earlier?  I'm down with that.  Think it's a great idea.

Throw some debuff resistance at Regen to make it a little less punishing to play?  All for it.

Changing the defense cap?  Hell to the no!

 

Given that we want completely different things, and we aren't going to come to any kind of agreement, there's no point in going back and forth over it any further.  I have already said everything that I have to say on the subject, and I am way too busy with work this week (major project with a serious time crunch, and on a short week, no less) to be playing forum warrior (something I should strive to do less of, anyway).  I stand by everything I've said so far, and I don't think there's anything for me to gain by rehashing it all again.  I'm going to spend what precious little free time I have this week actually playing the game instead of arguing about it.

[Gobbledygook]

I have never taken RoP or Shadow meld on any toon. They are not required.

Unless you're a squishy.

Like regen.

[Troo]

9 minutes ago, Gobbledygook said:

I have never taken RoP or Shadow meld on any toon. They are not required.

Unless you're a squishy.

Like regen.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, Gobbledygook said:

I have never taken RoP or Shadow meld on any toon. They are not required.

Unless you're a squishy.

Like regen.

 

But would RoP give ol' BZB scrap enough of an edge to finally take down my nemesis, Mr. +4 Aeon in the MLTF? Hmmmmmmm. Meh, still not worth it.

[Blackjoy]

6 hours ago, Stormwalker said:

You want to dramatically change the game.

No, I don't.   I want the devs to run the numbers on /SR, see that it's dead last in the mid-game, and make it so that the difference in survival time between it and the #1 set isn't like a factor of 4.  I also think it needs some QoL improvements.

 

But when you stop and recognize what happens to /SR when you lower the  DEF cap, without changing /SR one iota, it's suddenly obvious how poorly the set is designed.    Lowering the DEF cap is really the only safe way to make /Regen look better without actually doing anything to /Regen, because capping +DEF wouldn't be nearly as effective as it is now.  

 

I don't really give a rat's ass about what happens at lvl 50 because they aren't going to balance the game there. 

 

But I am still wondering why the +DEF cap is so high.

 

EDIT: But I would not be opposed to seeing a way to stop lvl 50's from exemping down and just totally overpowering content.  Maybe something you could choose for missions, like the Difficulty settings.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Blackjoy

[Blackjoy]

4 hours ago, Gobbledygook said:

I have never taken RoP or Shadow meld on any toon. They are not required.

Unless you're a squishy.

Like regen.

That's how I feel about Tough and Weave.  In fact, I'm of the opinion that when the game was launched, the Fighting Pool wasn't even intended for scrappers, but specifically for squishes who wanted to have a concept squishy that could melee to some degree. It would be interesting to see the Fighting Pool off-limits to scrappers, stalkers, brutes,  and tanks. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Blackjoy

[Blackjoy]

7 hours ago, Brutal Justice said:

I crunched all the numbers a long time ago.  40% defense hard cap is the magic you’re looking for.

I can't imagine they'd ever lower the caps, but 40% seems pretty low.  Why happens at that number?  Wold you leave +RES at 75 for scrappers?  Seems like you'd have to lower both.   And then a /Regen would rule the world.

[Brutal Justice]

8 hours ago, Blackjoy said:

I can't imagine they'd ever lower the caps, but 40% seems pretty low.  Why happens at that number?  Wold you leave +RES at 75 for scrappers?  Seems like you'd have to lower both.   And then a /Regen would rule the world.

It only seems like you would have to lower both because the current situation is that far in favor of defense over resistance at the 75% resistance cap.  40% defense brings defense down to STILL just slightly better than 75% resistance.  

 

45% defense is exactly in line with 90% resistance.  You can’t be “equal” with 90% and not be grossly out of balance with 75%.  

 

This cap would address the gap in performance that exists in the IO world without hampering the balance goals in the SO world.