Regen and an epic'ed out build

[kelika2]

I never went full blown maximum +rech on a regen before.  To anyone who has done it, is it worth it?

[Thrax]

No, it’s not. Not on a scrapper. Not on a brute. Not on a sentinel. 

[kelika2]

fug

[SomeGuy]

5 hours ago, Thrax said:

No, it’s not. Not on a scrapper. Not on a brute. Not on a sentinel. 

 

This.

[Troo]

7 hours ago, kelika2 said:

fug

 

just not necessary to go overboard. dp will not need much. we just need enough for our chosen attack chains.

[Koopak]

Stacking more recharge on Regen is always good, but not to the point of neglecting other stats. You can never fully close the vulnerability window and you will get closer to achieving that with pool powers than recharge past perma dull pain

[Bill Z Bubba]

Still seems like the best course of action, and one I see the regeners that dig it lean on, are the big buff powers. Eye of the Magus/Demonic, Rune of Protection, Unrelenting and the like. You know... crutches like blasters use.

 

<grin>

[Linea]

and/or Katana and Broadsword.

 

Here's a very old alpha build I tested for the initial i25.

It works, but is very difficult to drive, and in general you'll get more out of and be easier to drive /Bio or /WP for less input in both cost and player resources.

Kat Regen - Linea DefRes 2b - [i25].mxd

[Infinitum]

On 4/30/2022 at 11:57 PM, kelika2 said:

I never went full blown maximum +rech on a regen before.  To anyone who has done it, is it worth it?

Nope

 

An analogy:

 

Willpower is driving Elenore in Gone in 60 seconds

 

Regen is Al Bundy crashing his car in his garage then coming inside to an empty fridge.

 

Pick Willpower if you want useful Regen.

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Infinitum said:

Spoiler

Nope

 

An analogy:

 

Willpower is driving Elenore in Gone in 60 seconds

 

Regen is Al Bundy crashing his car in his garage then coming inside to an empty fridge.

 

Pick Willpower if you want useful Regen.

 

 

Wow I must make Al Bundy look like a Formula One driver. At least until he runs into a -regen debuff. (regen on a stalker is superior to willpower)

 

Willpower is that dependable-ish vehicle with a 3 speed automatic.

 

Note: Top Formula One driver is currently riding a Honda. (Honda has 2 out of the top 4 and 3 out of the top 10)

[Infinitum]

27 minutes ago, Troo said:

Wow I must make Al Bundy look like a Formula One driver. At least until he runs into a -regen debuff. (regen on a stalker is superior to willpower)

Al Bundy cant afford inspirations.  lol

 

28 minutes ago, Troo said:

Willpower is that dependable-ish vehicle with a 3 speed automatic.

RTTC is the reason stalker regen is better than stalker WP because it isn't present.

 

But that's like saying the honda with a worn out engine is better than the honda with no engine.  It really isn't a comparison because RTTC willpower cant run.

[Troo]

fair enough..

 

3 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Al Bundy cant afford inspirations.  lol

 

Don't use inspirations.

I do spam MoG as needed backed up by RoP, Demonic and such when running regens.

[kelika2]

19 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Pick Willpower if you want useful Regen.

I get what you are saying because I have roughly 15 willpower characters, but after 3 years and over 100 alts you kinda sometimes wanna experiment

[Infinitum]

39 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

I get what you are saying because I have roughly 15 willpower characters, but after 3 years and over 100 alts you kinda sometimes wanna experiment

I was in the same boat about 2 years ago and thought i could make regen work (never had played regen - even on live) to my liking.  I had heard it was bad but in my head i can make anything overperform in survivability terms.  In the end IMO i was unsuccessful - i mean i developed a build that could do "ok" but jupiter would have to be in retrograde and you had to be almost perfect in your timing.  There are just better less annoying options that fit the theme.

 

So i went back to willpower and pretended it was regen.  lol

[Infinitum]

2 things are needed IMO to bring regen back to the table - DDR and Regen/Recharge Debuff Resistance.  Until that happens its just an odd duck that you can make work but it ends up not being fun IMO.

[Koopak]

 

35 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

2 things are needed IMO to bring regen back to the table - DDR and Regen/Recharge Debuff Resistance.  Until that happens its just an odd duck that you can make work but it ends up not being fun IMO.

I find Regen very fun but i mean that should be obvious since iv spent so much time optimizing it. I really agree with this buff take though and its refreshing to see someone else who seems to understand where Regen's weaknesses are rather than the repeated attempts to just slap more stats on it.

When playing regeneration you have two core weaknesses you must maintain awareness of at all times, debuffs is the biggest one and the hardest to compensate for, its why i tell every regen player Ageless Radial is basically mandatory. The other one is effective health, due to low resist and defense numbers being just, part of Regen life when you don't have support, the set suffers from the lowest effective health of any armor, resulting in it taking an alpha and crumbling, or getting put down by a lucky hit or two from a high end AV. Numerically, if you could survive those damage spikes, regen actually is above average durability, with the potential to be the best when supported.

Compensating for alpha is relatively easy, pop MoG, or Shadow Meld if you have it, before pulling, easy peasy. Compensating for AVs is a lot harder requiring understanding of their attacks, which ones are a threat, and mentally counting out their recharge so you can make sure you are full health and pop a survival before the blow lands. I enjoy these aspects as they make the set proactive vs reactive, it feels like im taking action to counter my opponent rather than letting the armor just do it for me because numbers.

Compensating for Debuffs however? A pipe dream. Defense capping is difficult to impossible and without DDR, the second -defense is in the mix that cap will crumble and fast. As long as the debuffs aren't -def though you can use MoG and Shadow Meld to compensate.

-End/-Recovery can be offset some with Quick Recovery which is otherwise skippable.

-to-hit can be offset with Tactics, Accuracy slotting, and Focused Accuracy if you are paranoid.

-Regen is hopeless since it is either so small it will only barely hurt you or so big it near shuts down Instant Healing, seriously the 25.95% -regen resistance in Fast Healing is pathetic vs the -1000% regen Malta titans spit out. Reconstruction spam and Unrelenting are your only counters since they are heals rather than regeneration

-Recharge can be slotted for but its expensive and takes away from other slotting options

All of the above is why Ageless is so damnd core to any regen build in my opinion.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Koopak

[Infinitum]

32 minutes ago, Koopak said:

 

I find Regen very fun but i mean that should be obvious since iv spent so much time optimizing it. I really agree with this buff take though and its refreshing to see someone else who seems to understand where Regen's weaknesses are rather than the repeated attempts to just slap more stats on it.

When playing regeneration you have two core weaknesses you must maintain awareness of at all times, debuffs is the biggest one and the hardest to compensate for, its why i tell every regen player Ageless Radial is basically mandatory. The other one is effective health, due to low resist and defense numbers being just, part of Regen life when you don't have support, the set suffers from the lowest effective health of any armor, resulting in it taking an alpha and crumbling, or getting put down by a lucky hit or two from a high end AV. Numerically, if you could survive those damage spikes, regen actually is above average durability, with the potential to be the best when supported.

Compensating for alpha is relatively easy, pop MoG, or Shadow Meld if you have it, before pulling, easy peasy. Compensating for AVs is a lot harder requiring understanding of their attacks, which ones are a threat, and mentally counting out their recharge so you can make sure you are full health and pop a survival before the blow lands. I enjoy these aspects as they make the set proactive vs reactive, it feels like im taking action to counter my opponent rather than letting the armor just do it for me because numbers.

Compensating for Debuffs however? A pipe dream. Defense capping is difficult to impossible and without DDR, the second -defense is in the mix that cap will crumble and fast. As long as the debuffs aren't -def though you can use MoG and Shadow Meld to compensate.

-End/-Recovery can be offset some with Quick Recovery which is otherwise skippable.

-to-hit can be offset with Tactics, Accuracy slotting, and Focused Accuracy if you are paranoid.

-Regen is hopeless since it is either so small it will only barely hurt you or so big it near shuts down Instant Healing, seriously the 25.95% -regen resistance in Fast Healing is pathetic vs the -1000% regen Malta titans spit out. Reconstruction spam and Unrelenting are your only counters since they are heals rather than regeneration

-Recharge can be slotted for but its expensive and takes away from other slotting options

All of the above is why Ageless is so damnd core to any regen build in my opinion.

That is pretty close to my take on it also, surviving the alpha wasn't usually an issue - it was after whatever alpha absorber used ran out and you were in a sustained +4/8 fight with lots of debuffs ~10 seconds later you are dropped.  

 

I tried ageless and barrier and honestly rotating barrier and MOG gained more survivability time than using ageless as a prop.  Kill speed comes in to play here also, better clean your plate if you end up with a gap in protection.  My secondary support stat i went with was softcapped melee and aoe defense and that at least buys you some more time when absorbing the alpha then rotating MOG and Barrier.

 

Like i said earlier you could literally pull it off with regen most of the time - but you are having to use tactics that you literally do not need to in any other armor set out there just to stay upright and that is a problem IMO.

[Marshal_General]

I have a ice/regen brute at max level can do 4/8 with little problem. Occasionally I might have to use my big heals depending on what mobs I am facing. I had about 80% resist vs -recharge.

 

Though I have only played it on test, fully IO'd out at 50 so I have no idea how it would be leveling it.

[arcane]

It’s plenty worth it under one condition: you don’t have a hardline arbitrary aversion to using occasional inspirations earned in combat. No email chaining or purchasing, just occasional regular drops will cut it.

 

If using a single small inspiration every few minutes as a stopgap in +4x8 content is a serious dealbreaker for you, yeah, stay away. 
 

Otherwise don’t listen to the naysayers, you’ll be fine.

 

Literally only time my Ice/Regen Brute’s current build has died in +4x8 content was when people on the forum ordered me to use no inspirations for testing purposes. It has over 100% +recharge, no extra defense/resistance bonuses outside of those you normally get from slotting purple sets and ATO sets, and I find it very effective and fun.

 

In general, beyond Regeneration, this is a rule with many players on the forum. When they say something is bad, they’re saying it is bad if you share their aversion to basic occasional inspiration use. Best to keep that in mind and figure out where you yourself stand.

Edited May 20, 2022 by arcane

[InvaderStych]

On 5/5/2022 at 2:06 PM, Troo said:

Note: Top Formula One driver is currently riding a Honda. (Honda has 2 out of the top 4 and 3 out of the top 10)

 

Ok, admittedly off topic, but wtf are you on about? 

 

Honda isn't running an F1 team this year, and unless they're suddenly providing engines for Ferrari and at least two other teams those numbers aren't even possible. 😄 (2 drivers per team)

 

MotoGP, maybe?  Except those numbers aren't right for that sport either. 😄

[VJT]

On 5/20/2022 at 10:51 AM, InvaderStych said:

 

Ok, admittedly off topic, but wtf are you on about? 

 

Honda isn't running an F1 team this year, and unless they're suddenly providing engines for Ferrari and at least two other teams those numbers aren't even possible. 😄 (2 drivers per team)

 

MotoGP, maybe?  Except those numbers aren't right for that sport either. 😄

I think they are supplying engines for Red Bull and Alpha

[Zepp]

I use a fairly high recharge approach with my Spines/Regen scrapper. The toon originated before Willpower, so that's why it is not a Spines/WP... That being said, it is fun to run and I usually don't need my security blankets (Instant Healing, Moment of Glory, and Shadow Meld). However, in a pinch it is good to have Instant healing and 45s of insanity-level protection...

 

02 Spyqe.mxd

[Stormwalker]

On 5/27/2022 at 7:32 PM, VJT said:

I think they are supplying engines for Red Bull and Alpha

Not any more.  Honda pulled out and sold their F1 program to Red Bull.  Red Bull and Alpha Tauri engines are now provided by "Red Bull Power Trains".

 

It's definitely derived from the Honda engine they were running previously, though.

[VJT]

On 5/31/2022 at 7:14 PM, Stormwalker said:

Not any more.  Honda pulled out and sold their F1 program to Red Bull.  Red Bull and Alpha Tauri engines are now provided by "Red Bull Power Trains".

 

It's definitely derived from the Honda engine they were running previously, though.

Not true

honda engineers are “on staff” for Red Bull. This was going to be last year for the union but Honda has commited till 2024 season with aiding for power

[Stormwalker]

2 minutes ago, VJT said:

Not true

honda engineers are “on staff” for Red Bull. This was going to be last year for the union but Honda has commited till 2024 season with aiding for power

 

Officially, the engines are produced by Red Bull Power Trains.  What involvement Honda might still have, I don't follow it closely enough to say.