Azrael Tank Ratings.

[Golden Azrael]

4 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

 

No - but you are also missing my point that the set bonuses also add up - and the extra regen factor with capped HP also contribute to a finely tuned balanced build.

 

If you are all set in every other aspect. Why not? that is my point. My build has softcapped typed, softcapped melee and over 80 res on everything including psi and toxic with 3 stacks of MotT - with 1 stack its over 70.  S/l is of course 90. Why wouldnt you add the other to the list at that point because the bases are covered.

 

On point.  Sometimes I've six slotted Regen' ('Regen' as in Dull Pain or any given Tanking Regen semantic...) and it's been mandatory for the bigger picture.  Sometimes, three of those slots could have maybe been spent elsewhere.  Slotting can get real tight on Tanks when I'm haggling about 1-3 slots and how best to spend them.

 

And I think that 'hollistic' balance is something I'm even now, still grappling with.  

 

As I've said, many of my 1st Tanking builds which I thought were the best ever look a bit...'What was I thinking?' when I go back to them.  'oh.  I'm not Captain America after all.'

 

But my current builds are more robust, the design more often reflects my intentions.  But squeezing out eg. My Fire Defence number on Shield (eg. 15%) is an area I can still better balance.

 

And it comes down to choices.  I love Som's Invul'EM build.  But I couldn't live without Taunt and Bone Smasher on my Tank.  So I'd have to find a way to squeeze those in.  Maybe cope without Energy Punch.  Don't use it 'That Much.'

 

I'll go back and fix my 'proc' based Invul' / EM as a case in point.  My intention at the time was proc damage.  But I traded defence.  Resistance.

 

Now?  I want him to be a hard az.  Which he is against Council.  But now I want MoAR.  So I'll throw out the procs (maybe keep a minimum of them if I can.  If not, I'll live.  It's not like EM doesn't hit like a truck anyhow.)  And that's the beauty of the debate here.

 

Can you do it?  Can you make it better?  Get that 'balance.'

 

Azrael.

[Mezmera]

Any heal I take on an armor character I look to 6 slot it with Preventative Medicine too.  The set bonuses are real good and play into constructing a better armor character plus its a good way to slot that absorb proc if you're looking for a place to slot it.  I also occasionally will slot a full set of Numina for that ranged defense bonus but I like Preventative Medicine bonuses a bit better.  

 

As far as True Grit goes I 3 slot it with Numinas so I can make use of that unique and get high enhancement values for more hp then I slot the rest with resistance IOs.  

 

Healing back the damage that was just done to you thus doubling the amount of damage it takes to kill you is totally another form of damage mitigation.  

[Golden Azrael]

1 hour ago, Mezmera said:

Any heal I take on an armor character I look to 6 slot it with Preventative Medicine too.  The set bonuses are real good and play into constructing a better armor character plus its a good way to slot that absorb proc if you're looking for a place to slot it.  I also occasionally will slot a full set of Numina for that ranged defense bonus but I like Preventative Medicine bonuses a bit better.  

 

As far as True Grit goes I 3 slot it with Numinas so I can make use of that unique and get high enhancement values for more hp then I slot the rest with resistance IOs.  

 

Healing back the damage that was just done to you thus doubling the amount of damage it takes to kill you is totally another form of damage mitigation.  

 

Spot on.

 

I find it funny when a mob gradually grinds me down to the last quarter of my HPs...and then I hit Dull Pain (or an Absorb button) then they have to grind through all of that again.  That's what?  3000-3500 of HPs to get through.  Twice.  7000 points of HPs.  It's monumental and soul destroying to your Nemesis.  'Good luck, Mob.'  Cause if I'm rad, fire or energy melee, you're in deep trouble.

 

I like 6 slotted Preventative Medicine.  It's good value for it.  Big nice dollop of recharge.  A sound Absorb unique.  (I like things like this.  Especially on my squishies as it acts like a 'Hand brake' on getting Alpha'd.  Giving you time to react.)  Ofc.  It works great on a Tank with a big VAT of HPs or one with a lower HP stack.

 

Your True Grit slotting is noted.

 

Azrael.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

Update.  RE: the 801 'Tanking Challenge' for 'advanced' Tankers.  I've rolled a Rad/Rad Tank (currently Level 12 in the Hollows) which 'begins' its journey.  I prioritised Smashing * L resistance and x3 slotted the Alpha shield straight away.  I always took the AoE attack and prioritised the damage slots for it.  Ofc, I'm emphasising the armour powers (only 3 attacks vs 5 armour powers) at the moment so I can Keep Myself Alive.  (Using Sands of Mu and Nemesis Staff to supplement the attack chain.)

Starting off with SOs.  -1x8 on the Wilcott mission arc.  (Tip.  Use the Luck inspires you can buy from him to limit incoming hits.)

 

Once I get a bit higher (or higher level enough) I'll fit strategic uniques as per the advice above from other posters.

 

I do have a Rad/BS Tank (very impressive.)  Don't have a Rad/Rad.  The 'build' from the 801 thread really impressed me.  Something to aim for.

 

Impressed with the breadth of resistance Radiation has so far.  Just got the Heal for me and some -Regen on Mobs and a sprinkle of DoT which stacks with the melee rad cone.

 

Update: L27 and counting.  0x8 Council Mobs in Talos.  IO (SOs that don't fade) fitted.  'Only' two uniques fitted into Tough.  Global Defences x2.  Gladiator and Steadfast.

 

Azrael.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

I would add to my Tank list.  Something really different.

 

Some may consider it blasphemy.  ('He dares???!')

 

But if you want to be 'tank' like but do it with blasts?

 

I recommend?  A Sentinel.  Sonic.  Rad.

 

I'm very impressed with it's toughness.  The way it shreds mobs.  I have plenty of damage.  And can take many punches to the chin and a stick of wood to the back of the head.

 

You can tank in the mob.  Aka.  At the front.

 

Or you can even get 'behind' a Time/Seismic Defender and Tank from behind.  No really.  (That's where the blasts and AOEs really come in to play.)

 

I have plenty of AOES to rinse mobs.  The only thing I don't have is a taunt from a Tertiary Power pool...

 

Azrael. 

[drgantz]

This is an awesome post.  It is very helpful.  Thank you.

[drgantz]

Posts like this are always helpful

[drgantz]

This list is very helpful and the comments are helpful as well.  Thank you.

[Troo]

Triple bump for the win!

[drgantz]

This is an excellent guide and is well written

[azanimefan]

any tier list for tankers rating Rad lower then no.3 isn't a valid list.

 

I know this is old, but i've played every tanker AT, and rad is hands down the best one of the lot.  I can see people liking others... stone, invulnerability... maybe bio or willpower... but they all fall away the higher the incarnate challenge.  

 

This is the lone powerset it's possible to get to 90% res in all res types... though i wouldn't suggest you bork your build doing that.  settling for 90 in all but 2 or 3 in their 80s is fine.  toss a healing attack set like rad or dark on it and it's legit invincible.  Build it with modest defenses through ios... say 20-30% defense and you'll never even notice mobs even at the incarnate level.  

 

some caveats though ~ this is button pushy set, if you like to set it and forget it i suggest willpower~ 

 

It feels weaker if you don't grab a healing attack set.  it's built in heals while strong are slow on the recharge, and if you're up against anything that hurts you'll feel the lack of def, but with a healing attack set (rad/dark for example) you'll just curbstomp everything, easily.  without help needed.  

 

one last caviat, almost nothing needs a peak tanking set to clear.  you can easily clear all content with a mediocre tanking set like fire if you know what you're doing.  Peak tanking sets are only needed for like 2 or 3 incarnate trials at max level, or for simple/easy clearing of master-of TFs, top tier tankers are also only needed if the team is dogshit construct/low level, whatever.  basically it can make a bad pug easy.  a good team has almost no need for a tanker excepting in some rare incarnate trials.  

 

 

[Sovera]

2 hours ago, azanimefan said:

any tier list for tankers rating Rad lower then no.3 isn't a valid list.

 

I know this is old, but i've played every tanker AT, and rad is hands down the best one of the lot.  I can see people liking others... stone, invulnerability... maybe bio or willpower... but they all fall away the higher the incarnate challenge.  

 

This is the lone powerset it's possible to get to 90% res in all res types... though i wouldn't suggest you bork your build doing that.  settling for 90 in all but 2 or 3 in their 80s is fine.  toss a healing attack set like rad or dark on it and it's legit invincible.  Build it with modest defenses through ios... say 20-30% defense and you'll never even notice mobs even at the incarnate level.  

 

some caveats though ~ this is button pushy set, if you like to set it and forget it i suggest willpower~ 

 

It feels weaker if you don't grab a healing attack set.  it's built in heals while strong are slow on the recharge, and if you're up against anything that hurts you'll feel the lack of def, but with a healing attack set (rad/dark for example) you'll just curbstomp everything, easily.  without help needed.  

 

one last caviat, almost nothing needs a peak tanking set to clear.  you can easily clear all content with a mediocre tanking set like fire if you know what you're doing.  Peak tanking sets are only needed for like 2 or 3 incarnate trials at max level, or for simple/easy clearing of master-of TFs, top tier tankers are also only needed if the team is dogshit construct/low level, whatever.  basically it can make a bad pug easy.  a good team has almost no need for a tanker excepting in some rare incarnate trials.  

 

 

 

Most resistance armors on a Tanker will reach 90% (unless it's specifically their weakness like Cold is for Rad) and even those who are defense can get resistance pretty high, like Stone who walks around with 70% to most with one stack of the ATO, 76% with two, and 81% if just using Barrier on CD (not specifically advised as it should be a panic button).

 

Rad's strength lays more on the absorb shield since it is rarer to find from support classes. It really depends on what is done though. Most level 50 normal content doesn't require peak gaming, as you've pointed out, and anything organized we then start entering chained Barriers.

[Warshades]

10 hours ago, azanimefan said:

This is the lone powerset it's possible to get to 90% res in all res types

 

That's just flat out untrue. Several other sets are capable of capping all resists at 90%.

 

10 hours ago, azanimefan said:

any tier list for tankers rating Rad lower then no.3 isn't a valid list.

 

Personally I wouldn't put radiation in top 3 for survivability and it's likely outside the top 3 for offense as well after the recent Radiation Therapy nerf (at minimum, I currently have bio, shield, and fiery as providing higher offensive buffs than radiation). Defensive sets, especially those that are able to supplement that defense with high resists, are much better for survivability. While there are niche situations that having an absorb shield is useful, several armor sets are sturdier for survivability than radiation.

 

Invuln can hit 90% resists to all dmg types while also reaching 45% soft cap def to all typed dmg other than psi/tox, that also with with some decent DDR and 1 foe in range of invincibility. The def will scale higher with saturated invincibility.

 

Stone is able to easily soft cap/hard cap everything but psi with Granite, and even then, stacking psi resist bonuses and unique IOs from aegis/impervius would allow it to hard cap psi resist. Like invuln, stone gets good DDR as well.

 

Shield is also extremely tough with easy positional soft cap, provides team support, and offensive buffs. With a focus on resist bonus, you can easily hit 90% s/l and ~70% to the other damage types. Combined with high DDR, shield is significantly more durable than radiation even with the lack of a heal.

 

SR, due to the scaling resist buffs it gets from its passives, can hit 90% resist across everything but psi. With a focus on resist bonuses, it can do so at ~40% HP left at which point your health bar will practically not move with the capped 95% DDR and huge positional defense soft cap buffer.

 

Energy, while being typed defense with a psi/toxic hole, does get higher starting resist from the passive buffs, a reliable heal/regen, and higher max HP than SR. It's an excellent set for survivability when IO'd out, but definitely a late bloomer.

 

Bio provides more offensive buffs compared to radiation and also gets higher absorb shield values. This is more of a mixed set relying on absorbs, regen, resists, and defense.

 

While I do like radiation armor, I don't believe it's in the top 3 of the available armor sets. Others have much higher advantages, either for survivability, damage, or in some cases both. Having said all that, any rating/opinion will have bias and you're certainly able to continue enjoying rad armor. All armor sets can work for all the content in the game, some just have higher ceilings that they can reach.

 

My personal rating would be something like this in general (including incarnate content):

1. Invuln
2. Stone or Shield (relatively equal, depends on preference and secondary pairing).
3. Energy or SR (relatively equal...)
4. Bio
5. Dark or Psi (relatively equal...)
6. Regen
7. Ice
8. Radiation
9. Fiery
10. Electric
11. Willpower

This is mostly a survival rating, although offense also factors in (ex. fiery being higher than electric because of the superior offensive buffs it provides for my list). For specific situations, these can change. As an example, for 4 star content where a team cycles T4 barriers, resist/defense becomes irrelevant and heals/absorbs/offensive buffs would get much higher value.

[Captain Citadel]

23 hours ago, Warshades said:

Invuln can hit 90% resists to all dmg types while also reaching 45% soft cap def to all typed dmg other than psi/tox, that also with with some decent DDR and 1 foe in range of invincibility. The def will scale higher with saturated invincibility.

Can I ask how you do this without triple-stacking the Superior Might of the Tanker proc? I can pretty reliably keep 100% uptime on one stack with my Invuln/SS build, but 3 stacks only lasts a short time. With one stack of the +ResAll proc, my resistances are still pretty gnarly, with overcapped 90% on S/L and Psionic, but everything else ranges from 70-71%. At zero stacks, everything ranges from 63.41% to 84.53%, though if I toggled Tough on instead of only using it as an Impervium mule and a bridge to other Fighting powers, S/L would shoot up to 98% overcapped with zero SMotT +ResAll procs.

If it'd be possible to have permanent 90% resistance on a Tanker with flight and no ranged attacks, I'd love to look at that build.

If Hurl interacted with Hover/Fly the same way Foot Stomp already does, I'd make that my ranged attack, but everything else available through Epic Power Pools would directly violate my character concept.

Edited Monday at 08:57 PM by Captain Citadel

[Warshades]

54 minutes ago, Captain Citadel said:

Can I ask how you do this without triple-stacking the Superior Might of the Tanker proc? I can pretty reliably keep 100% uptime on one stack with my Invuln/SS build, but 3 stacks only lasts a short time. With one stack of the +ResAll proc, my resistances are still pretty gnarly, with overcapped 90% on S/L and Psionic, but everything else ranges from 70-71%. At zero stacks, everything ranges from 63.41% to 84.53%, though if I toggled Tough on instead of only using it as an Impervium mule and a bridge to other Fighting powers, S/L would shoot up to 98% overcapped with zero SMotT +ResAll procs.

 

I'll link a sample build, be sure to set invincibility to 0 foes and then back to 1 in mid's to get accurate defense numbers since mid's still doesn't load in invuln builds with proper defense values when invincibility is toggled on. The values in the screenshot are with 1 foe in range of invincibility and 1 stack of SMoT proc. Add in T4 barrier which at minimum always applies 5% def/res and you're hitting 50%+ def to everything but psi/tox and 90% resist to all but psi on a permanent basis with just 1 SMoT stack still. A second stack of SMoT would then cap off psi resist. Alternatively, you can move a slot into a resist power (either a power transfer +heal or performance shifter +end procs) to put in another Impervium Armor +psi resist unique and you'd cap psi resist with just 1 stack of SMoT and T4 barrier as well. 

 

Invuln can be built to have no resist holes, a lot of other pure resist based armor sets can similarly be built to reach 90% to everything or nearly everything as well with careful planning. 

 

 

54 minutes ago, Captain Citadel said:

If it'd be possible to have permanent 90% resistance on a Tanker with flight and no ranged attacks, I'd love to look at that build.

If Hurl interacted with Hover/Fly the same way Foot Stomp already does, I'd make that my ranged attack, but everything else available through Epic Power Pools would directly violate my character concept.

 

In theory, it may be possible. Hover and Fly can be directly swapped with CJ and Super Jump as I have them in my build (though your fly speed using Hover might be low with no other buffs to it). Bigger issue is finding a diverse secondary attack set that can take appropriate IO sets to soft cap typed defenses. You could technically still take Hurl and slot it just for the set bonuses, but theme tends to conflict with trying to reach certain defensive/resist benchmarks as you're limiting what powers you can pick and indirectly limiting what IO set types can be slotted as a result. Super Strength in particular is more limiting since outside of 1 AoE attack in Foot Stomp and 1 ranged attack in Hurl (which you can't use with flight), everything else is single target attacks. That places some limits on what sets and bonuses you can get. 

 

Hurl can be slotted with Superior Winter's Bite (same defensive bonuses as Superior Entomb, I went for the entomb set because of the absorb proc in it), but you'd be unable to slot a 3 piece eradication set to get the e/n defense. If you do so in Foot Stomp, you miss out on the psi/tox resist from Armageddon. A quick solution would be taking Cross Punch to have an additional cone that can take PBAoE sets. 

Tanker (Invulnerability - Dark Melee)7.mbd

Edited Monday at 09:49 PM by Warshades

[Captain Citadel]

This is what I have:



Not sure if this can be further optimized without breaking concept. I'm actually not opposed to removing Rage, I hate the crash. It's cool to be able to get a decent window of double-stacked Rage without taking Hasten, as it means I can set Rage as my sole auto-cast power. But the 10-second window of zero damage is excruciating.

I'd rather not use Barrier though. It seems a lot of people are already using it, so I get more mileage out of something like Ageless because it completely refills my team's endurance and in the radio teams I run with, a lack of +Recovery buffs seems to be a consistent problem.

Captain Citadel v2.3.5.mbd

[Warshades]

This is a quick alteration based on the slotting I use for invuln with some sets and powers moved around. It does use resilient core alpha instead of agility to reach higher resists. A single SMoT proc puts you at 80%+ resist to everything, stacking it twice will get you to resist caps for everything but psionic. Laser Beam Eyes would be a better fit as a usable attack instead of Hurl if it wouldn't break your theme. 

 

Captain Citadel v3.mbd