Mandalorian Season 3

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

So, penultimate Mando ep:

Spoiler

• Blade Runnery backstreet again - dark alleys for dark deeds. Just needs a couple of Skuls...
• Ah, Imperial Probe Droid doing some probing. Nice touch.
• Favreauloni just love a good hallway, don't they?
• And that's what they need the clone specialist for. Stormtroopers v2.0.
• I'll always be Rebel Scum, but that does mean knowing the Imp rulebook. 
  Rule #21: never, ever question the current Supreme Leader - be they black-clad badass, mostly-dead Sith, Andy Serkis, or a Smurf. Hubris never down goes well. But I suspect that's for next episode. (Rule #22: always take a tray before joining the canteen queue.)
• Infighting and passive-aggressiveness. Typical Nazis. Oh, and they like traps. Hux doesn't suit the beard though.
• Speaking of which... a difficult family reunion, and Evilly Handsome A-Hole being a pain in the backside already. In a small way. Is he (or one of Bo's former sidekicks) going to go full HYDRA later?
• IG-11 is now a Grogu-sized ride. This should be fun. If chaotic. BAD BABY...
• And he said his first word! 💕 They grow up so fast...
• Tension moment #2: recruiting not going well, but someone always has to be first. Not sure I'd want Evil Handsome Dude along for the ride unless someone's watching him, and watching my back.
• Madmaxalorians?
• Bo-Katan admitting something very dangerous at this point.
• The Armourer claims Death Watch isn't around any more. I'm not sure she's right.
• Pep talk, and Big Life Lesson. Y'don't need the Magic Feather, at least not for some people.
  (Trust me. Those are the people you want to stick with, especially if they're brave enough to say that to you straight.)
• HYDRA being HYDRA... or is he Death Watch?
• Grogu is a lot more mature than he looks. Maybe he just hasn't been able to communicate it. That's quite a big thing for kids.
• Uh-oh... did the Gauntlet's screens just flicker... like they're being jammed? Tension tension tension...
• ...but that was not what I was expecting. Big damn Rancorry thing!
• Ah, so that's where the fragments of Beskar on Gideon's shuttle came from. Upgrades. Neat.
• Wait, don't run into the... trap. And a recycled your fleet is lost... surrender now speech. Don't mess with a classic.
• Badass Paz gets an honourable death.
• Is HYDRA guy going to come through for the good guys or the bad guys? Y'hope he's going to surprise you...

So, next week... a rescue setup, a Big Damn Battle, and the final exit of at least one major character. I have a feeling I know who. 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Mr. Vee]

On 4/8/2023 at 3:19 PM, Techwright said:

They did mention that episode 7 was "probably the best episode of The Mandalorian ever, at least this season".  Something to look forward to.

 

Having now watched it I'd say it was exactly the type of ep I'd expect folks crowded in to watch at a con to say that about. Fan service abounded but mostly predictable and facepalmy happenings.

Spoiler

The council of hammy holograms suggestion that Brainy Smurf's not actually even around is the exception. There's nothing in his character that'd make one think he'd be trying to revamp the empire. He's honor-bound to Palpatine, not the empire or its remnants. But the idea that one of them would be using him as a figurehead to keep themselves in the game makes perfect sense.

 

[Techwright]

7 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

So, penultimate Mando ep:  (Orange responses)

  Hide contents

• Blade Runnery backstreet again - dark alleys for dark deeds. Just needs a couple of Skuls...
• Ah, Imperial Probe Droid doing some probing. Nice touch.
• Favreauloni just love a good hallway, don't they?
• And that's what they need the clone specialist for. Stormtroopers v2.0.  To be honest, I saw these guys lined up in that walk to the conference scene and thought they were more of Gar Saxon's Imperial Mandalorians.  But this makes sense, too.  After all, the Empire has had access to a lot of no longer used beskar.
• I'll always be Rebel Scum, but that does mean knowing the Imp rulebook.  "To defeat an enemy, you must know them" - Grand Admiral Thrawn, the Sun Tzu of the Star Wars galaxy
  Rule #21: never, ever question the current Supreme Leader - be they black-clad badass, mostly-dead Sith, Andy Serkis, or a Smurf. Hubris never down goes well. But I suspect that's for next episode. (Rule #22: always take a tray before joining the canteen queue.)  😁  It's pretty obvious that Moff Gideon is making a power play to be the top dog in the reforming empire, though if he's aware of Project Necromancer, which I assume is to bring Palpatine back, he wouldn't be any higher than Grand Moff Tarkin.  I'm curious to know why Thrawn hasn't revealed himself to the Shadow Council yet.  Perhaps he's trying to allow the would-be opposition, like Gideon, to reveal themselves?
• Infighting and passive-aggressiveness. Typical Nazis. Oh, and they like traps. Hux doesn't suit the beard though.  Glad you pointed out Hux.  I didn't pick up on that. And oh look! It's Domhnall's brother playing him.  Nice touch.
• Speaking of which... a difficult family reunion, and Evilly Handsome A-Hole being a pain in the backside already. In a small way. Is he (or one of Bo's former sidekicks) going to go full HYDRA later?  He'll either have a heart-change moment or Sasha will be forced to drop him.
• IG-11 is now a Grogu-sized ride. This should be fun. If chaotic. BAD BABY...  I'm surprised Greef called it "IG-12".  IG-12 would have actually been a production line number been the two bounty hunter droids IG-11 and IG-88.  This should have been more like IG-11b.  That said, I like how they've used the IG-11 to provide a replacement, at least at times where walking is better, for Grogu's perambulator.  Oh, and they need to get him a jetpack for the IG-12.
• And he said his first word! 💕 They grow up so fast...  I love how they dodged using his actually vocal chords, while still advancing the character.  I wonder how many times Taika had to record "Yes" and "No".  😄
• Tension moment #2: recruiting not going well, but someone always has to be first. Not sure I'd want Evil Handsome Dude along for the ride unless someone's watching him, and watching my back.
• Madmaxalorians?
• Bo-Katan admitting something very dangerous at this point.  Truth and honesty are necessary flux if the blade of Mandalorian society is to be reforged.
• The Armourer claims Death Watch isn't around any more. I'm not sure she's right.  Not exactly what she's saying.  A cohesive organization called Death Watch is gone.  She admitted to a lot of fractional descendant groups, just like her Children of the Watch.
• Pep talk, and Big Life Lesson. Y'don't need the Magic Feather, at least not for some people.
  (Trust me. Those are the people you want to stick with, especially if they're brave enough to say that to you straight.)
• HYDRA being HYDRA... or is he Death Watch?  You suspect he's secretly part of another faction?
• Grogu is a lot more mature than he looks. Maybe he just hasn't been able to communicate it. That's quite a big thing for kids.  Right. This whole IG-12 thing turbo-charges what they've been showing for a while:  Grogu was in developmental regression after Order 66. Child PTSD.  He's been slowing coming out of his PTSD regression for 3 seasons now.  Luke himself told Ahsoka that it didn't feel like he was training Grogu, but that the little guy was remembering what he'd already been trained.  The IG-12 seems to have supercharged that process, giving him a confidence we've never seen.  I mean, not only his "speech" function, but look at his reactions, such as nodding his head when told to keep up.  They look more like a 6-year old mute human, rather than an infant.
• Uh-oh... did the Gauntlet's screens just flicker... like they're being jammed? Tension tension tension...  If they take out the Armorer, a lot of fans are going to be angry.  I don't think they will, though.  She's the only armorer in their whole combined group, and she's the only remaining focus member of the CotW besides Din, who's too much of a wanderer to be the sole voice on the show for his people.  Besides, we've never seen the armorer do space combat.  Could be fun.  (Can you destroy a TIE fighter with a forge hammer?) They really do need to create a few more recognizable adults within the CotW, though.
• ...but that was not what I was expecting. Big damn Rancorry thing!  I've no idea what that was.  It certainly wasn't a mythosaur.  when it first burst from the ground the head looked like a Zillo Beast, which made little sense.                                                                                                                                                                                                                         No wonder the CotW settled on a planet with multiple giant monsters.  It must have felt like home.
• Ah, so that's where the fragments of Beskar on Gideon's shuttle came from. Upgrades. Neat.  I kind of got that right.  It was one of my two guesses, though the stronger guess was that Axe Woves' mercenaries did it.  Guess that doesn't make sense, though, as they'd know and hate Gideon.
• Wait, don't run into the... trap. And a recycled your fleet is lost... surrender now speech. Don't mess with a classic.  To be fair, the idea of an Imp base on Mandalore would not be an easy guess.  I'm puzzled, though, as to how Gideon is repeatedly underestimating Bo-Katan of late.  He's an expert at information and interpretation.  But then, he's misgauged the reality of Thrawn as well.  I guess his ego is getting in the way.  Did he actually give a "that's impossible" line when hearing the Mando clans were merging?  That's a violation of Evil Overlord List #24.  Actually, he violated a lot of numbers from that list this episode.  I might have to compile them.
• Badass Paz gets an honourable death.  Yep, and unlike a certain character in a current Star Wars animation, we see a body.  Still, we see a body left unattended.  That's a violation of Evil Overlord List #13.  I wonder what this will mean for Ragnar Viszla?  We never actually heard if he was a single-parent child or if he has a Viszla mother. We've not even heard if he was a foundling or a blood relative to Paz.
• Is HYDRA guy going to come through for the good guys or the bad guys? Y'hope he's going to surprise you...  Depends on whether "Woves" is a corruption of "wolves" or not.  If it is, he'll turn out good.  Filoni won't have a wolf turn evil. 

So, next week... a rescue setup, a Big Damn Battle, and the final exit of at least one major character. I have a feeling I know who.   I suspect something of the Mando fleet must survive.  The bulk of both clans is aboard that fleet, as is their only known armorer.  Beyond them would be the small group with Bo on the surface, and the ones who presumably remained behind on Nevarro to watch the children.  It would be a bold writing move to destroy the fleet entirely.  That said, we did have the information drop by the Armorer that multiple factions of Death Watch exist, so perhaps this heralds their introduction into the story.  Otherwise, Bo-Katan's leadership is over a ragtag bunch that will take generations to restore to any fighting strength.  I suspect Bo-Katan will head for the Mines of Mandalore and what's in their waters.

 

 

This episode should be called "THIS is the way!"  We're back on track with great storytelling and pacing.

 

Additional thoughts:

Spoiler

• We finally get to see Captain Gilad Pellaeon.  He was sadly absent from Star Wars: Rebels, except for a very brief audio cameo at the end.  From what I remember from the book Heir to the Empire, Pellaeon functioned sort of like a Dr. Watson to Thrawn's evil Sherlock Holmes.  I'm reasonably sure we'll see a fair amount of Pellaeon in the upcoming Ahsoka, unless his duties as a front for Thrawn's cloaked presence need to continue.
• I've no idea what that surface monster was. Knowing the producers, though, there's a good chance it is something from Legends material, and a reactor with more knowledge than I probably knows what it is.  I am a tad disturbed that no thought was taken to slow or reverse the land ship when it was first sighted.  Bravado is no substitute for common sense.
• I'm glad physical actor Tait Fletcher is getting credit for playing Paz Viszla.  I'm not sure I've ever seen him credited before.  People have gotten to think of Jon Favreau doing the entire character, and he's only voicing him.  Jon might have been able to play Paz physically back during his The Replacements days, but that's been over two decades.
• I recognized actor Charles Parnell who played the Mando captain of the planet survivors.  He played one of my favorite characters, level-headed CMC Jeter, back on The Last Ship.
• Beskar-wearing Moff Gideon makes a lot of sense.  I'm just surprised he wasn't wearing it in season 2.
• Very surprised Gideon didn't rip the helmet off of Din Djarin.  Gideon would have understood the significance of that.  Hauling Din to interrogation is a violation of Evil Overlord List #10. (see below)
• I like how the set design of the cave base gives the impression of TIE Interceptor wing tips looking like stalactites:
• Paz Viszla gets an epic sendoff as a hero, rather than an antagonist.  That said, I would have wished for him to at least injure one of the Praetorian Guards, if not outright kill one with his last blow.  Salute to a great character.  You notice they left his helmet in place after he fell.
• We get the name of the Shadow Council and a confirmation that the warlords are not disorganized but acting in harmony (more or less) towards a common goal.  The disorder is an act before the New Republic.  Sun Tzu would be pleased. You notice they're not using the name "The First Order" in private, but "Empire".  Apparently "The First Order" is part of the act, while simultaneously acting as the initiation of Palpatine's plans.  I'm curious who the unnamed members of the Shadow Council are. 
• We also receive word that there are still a host of people who want to follow the Empire.  This suggests a "patch" by Filoni and Favreau to a weakness in The Rise of Skywalker: how a vast host of Empire ships could be manned.  Now we have an explanation that there's still a recruitable base of population to pull from.
• Project Necromancer - we get this term for the first time (I think).  While not defined, the obvious answer might be the summation of the effort needed to revive the fallen Emperor and replace his damaged body.  However, might it be something else?  We hear Moff Gideons plans finally revealed: to create a 4th generation of Death Troopers by combining the science of several groups, including Mandalorian armor and something involving the Jedi.  Looking at Grogu, the implication is genetic in nature.  Take Dr. Pershing's gene splicing technology and merge force-sensitive DNA with other DNA, possibly clone DNA.  That could reach back nearly 30 years to embrace the work of Dr. Hemlock and Nala Se.  So many possibilities beyond just the Emperor.  One crazy possibility sprang to mind, and it ties into the past: Why keep the bodies of the Jedi in amber at the Inquisitorium (Obi-Wan Kenobi)? Were they just trophies? If so, why was the Jedi hung in Mos Eisley, rather than being taken back to HQ? Was their DNA being tapped? Or does a name like "Project Necromancer" have a more sinister implication for these long-fallen Jedi?

Violation this episode by Moff Gideon of the Evil Overlord List:

• #1: My Legions of Terror will have helmets with clear plexiglass visors, not face-concealing ones.
• #6: I will not gloat over my enemies' predicament before killing them.
• #10: I will not interrogate my enemies in the inner sanctum -- a small hotel well outside my borders will work just as well.  (This one's going to bite him, I think.)
• #13: All slain enemies will be cremated, or at least have several rounds of ammunition emptied into them, not left for dead at the bottom of the cliff.
• #24: I will maintain a realistic assessment of my strengths and weaknesses. Even though this takes some of the fun out of the job, at least I will never utter the line "No, this cannot be! I AM INVINCIBLE!!!" (In this episode, declaring that information of Mando clan merges is "impossible".)
• #29: I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion.
• #38: If an enemy I have just killed has a younger sibling or offspring anywhere, I will find them and have them killed immediately, instead of waiting for them to grow up harboring feelings of vengeance towards me in my old age. (Well, to be fair, he's just started.  This may yet happen.)
• #42: When I capture the hero, I will make sure I also get his dog, monkey, ferret, or whatever sickeningly cute little animal capable of untying ropes and filching keys happens to follow him around. (In this case, Grogu.)

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Techwright

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Spoiler

1 hour ago, Techwright said:

Evil Overlord List #24

...ah, a student of the classics, I see. Definitely #171 if you're facing an enemy who have jetpacks. Even if you have them too.

Mind you, the Mandos are breaking #33 all the time.

 

1 hour ago, Techwright said:

I like how the set design of the cave base gives the impression of TIE Interceptor wing tips looking like stalactites:

I was thinking bats. Either way, suitably creepy and threatening. I approve.

 

Oh, and I don't think the Armourer is going to buy it. I think it's Din, possibly taking Gideon with him. 

They foreshadowed it by having a loving father sacrifice himself for the tribe, and the Big Damn Loyalty Speech.

And Favreauloni love killing their darlings, as you well know.

 

I have a feeling that beyond the TIEs, the idea was that they hold the fleet and wait for other warlords to move in and clean up if there's an issue.

I suspect, after what he said about Brainy Smurf, that train ain't coming. Hubris, boy. 

 

As far as the "patch" goes: this is also an unfortunate reflection of real life. Freedom is disorganised... and unprofitable. But much more sustainable.

 

[Techwright]

11 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

  Hide contents

...ah, a student of the classics, I see. Definitely #171 if you're facing an enemy who have jetpacks. Even if you have them too.

Mind you, the Mandos are breaking #33 all the time.

Oh, yes, I completely forgot to look at the extended lists. #171 does indeed fit the bill in this case.  As to Mandos breaking #33, well, are they really the evil overlords? 😉

I was thinking bats. Either way, suitably creepy and threatening. I approve.

Yes, I can see that now, and I think that's a better explanation.

Oh, and I don't think the Armourer is going to buy it. I think it's Din, possibly taking Gideon with him. 

They foreshadowed it by having a loving father sacrifice himself for the tribe, and the Big Damn Loyalty Speech.

And Favreauloni love killing their darlings, as you well know.

First, I like that you wrote "Armourer" to our American English "Armorer".  As a bit of an Anglophile, I love that the parent and child countries have certain differences in spelling and terminology.  It keeps things interesting.  I'll have to toss the rest of my comment into a spoiler box as it references a few important details in the episode:

Spoiler

Since posting previously, I've done a lot of reading.  People elsewhere have been seeing the episode title, and making the assumption that the Armorer/Armourer is secretly a spy for Moff Gideon.  Many cite that she, of all the Mandos, would want to reach the Great Forge, but she turned back and headed for the fleet. Could she be the spy? Yes, sure, but I find that bad writing if so.  Gideon was genuinely surprised that the pirates on Nevarro encountered resistence, and visibly shocked that the two Mando tribes were working together.  I don't know why so many forget that when it opened the show.  Had anyone from Din's camp been a spy, Gideon would have known the details of all that some time back, and may have even thwarted it.  I may end up eating my words, but I don't think the Armorer will betray the Mandos.  Why she left for the ships I see as a writers choice to move her into peril, while also showing she has compassion, willing to sacrifice her immediate interests for the needs of others.   As stated before, while she certainly could die, and the entire fleet be wiped out, I suspect the story will be different.

I have a feeling that beyond the TIEs, the idea was that they hold the fleet and wait for other warlords to move in and clean up if there's an issue.

I suspect, after what he said about Brainy Smurf, that train ain't coming. Hubris, boy.   I wonder what his art is like?

 

As far as the "patch" goes: this is also an unfortunate reflection of real life. Freedom is disorganised... and unprofitable. But much more sustainable.

 

 

I'd like to address something web chatter is fixated upon at the moment:  the episode title "The Spies".  The one who opened the episode is obvious, but the web chatter is crazy trying to determine who the spies are, supposedly, within the ranks of the Mandalorians.  I mentioned one theory in the spoiler box above and argued against it.  I could think of another Mando whom it might be, one that is currently by their lonesome, but I've doubts about that, too (see spoiler box below).  There's a hardly-discussed theory I like best, though it also makes the title an odd one, because it would be an obscure reference to many people.  Relayed was an idea by a Reddit user that "The Spies" is a reference to the Hebrew spies Joshua sent out from the 12 tribes to survey the land of Canaan, eventually called "Israel", their ancestral homeland that they were about to retake.  This fits a major theme of the episode, and makes even more sense when...

Spoiler

...you re-watch the scene where Bo-Katan is calling for volunteers to be the first to scout the planet.  She refers to the two factions as "tribes". 

 

Oh, and as to an actual second spy, I was referring to Axe Woves.  Gideon somehow knew the Dark Saber was back in Bo-Katan's possession, but unless it was discussed around a campfire, only Axe's faction knew of the transfer.  The Children of the Watch were not informed onscreen.  Axe has the biggest, ahem, axe to grind with Bo-Katan, and he has a mercenary heart.  In his favor, though, he seemed genuinely disturbed to see the Great Forge in its current state.

 

I've also had a new questions arise:

Spoiler

The double-nuking of the planet has left it in a state where communication from the planet are not possible.  However, Moff Gideon has a holo-transmission with Coruscant that's perfectly fine, and he is in his fortress of semi-solitude on the planet of Mandalore.  So...how's that done?  Does he have some sort of powerful transmitter that can mimic a radiated planet's atmospheric interference?  Does he have floating boosters that carry the signal through the atmosphere?

 

Also, does Moff Gideon's base on Mandalore with its mysterious vats provide a possible suggestion for the origin of the bizarre cyborg that captured Din a few episodes back?

 

Lastly, as someone elsewhere suggested: Gideon's reference to himself being the best part of the new beskar armor led to speculation that he's not referring to his physical person standing before them, but to his off-the-books cloning experiments that the rest of the Shadow Council don't really know much about.  Is Gideon cloning himself to be Death Troopers mark IV?  The idea has been done before:  Stargate SG-1, and the Goa'uld Ba'al.  Within the Star Wars universe, however, he'd have to greatly advance the cloning process.  Accelerated clones within the Clone Wars era still took 10 years to reach maturity and training.

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Techwright

[Mr. Vee]

Is there some reason they're not counting Elia Kane as the second spy, seeing as she had a scene in the episode?

 

[Techwright]

1 hour ago, Mr. Vee said:

Is there some reason they're not counting Elia Kane as the second spy, seeing as she had a scene in the episode?

 

Most see her as the first spy, since she shows up first.  They're trying to identify the second, if there is one.

[TygerDarkstorm]

Wow, what a whammy of an episode!

Spoiler

I don't think I have too much to say about it, you all covered a lot of it rather nicely. About shed a tear when Paz Vizsla went down for the team and sacrificed himself.

 

I will say, I am surprised that neither Din's nor Paz's helmets were removed, even if it would just be to insult them.

 

I do enjoy that The Mandalorian is providing us with some much needed insight as to how The First Order came to be from the fall of the Empire.

 

Grogu in his IG-12 suit had me in stitches, and I love the jump in growth we see as he is able to finally achieve at least a basic form of communication.

 

As to the second spy, I feel like Axe Woves is almost too obvious of a choice, like the writers have set him up so that you'll think he's the second spy. And while I'm not sure there's enough there for it to be true, something weird hit me about the Armorer being the possible spy when she's flying the Gauntlet back to the fleet. Or I wonder if like, a tracking chip or bug or something got attached to someone like Grogu or Din and that's how the Imps are keeping tabs on things.

 

I was totally not expecting Moff Gideon to have his little base setup on the planet of Mandalore though, which explains his interest in their desire to take it back. Makes sense though, who would have thought of Mandalore as being somewhere to house a base like that? I also wouldn't be surprised if he's the reason that comms normally can't pass through (hence why his stuff works and outsiders' don't--it keeps people at bay and thinking the planet is toxic and such).

 

[biostem]

A few of my thoughts:

 

Spoiler

It's like people forget they have lightsabers;  As soon as they're trapped between the 2 blast doors, imagine Gideon's reaction of Bo immediately went to the rear door and cut their way out right then and there.

 

Grogu could apparently levitate the mudhorn to save Din, but just stands by while he's being ganged up on by like 5 supercommandos?

 

Paz Vizsla was doing pretty well until he had to ditch his heavy repeating blaster.  I guess he didn't notice all those other blasters around him once his overheated?  I mean, I get that the Praetorian guards would have beaten him either way, but I think he would have held out longer if he took the other blasters.

 

How was Gideon able to get a transmission offworld, if they said there was no way to do so, due to the atmospheric disturbances.  I also don't get why they wouldn't take all the survivors from that weird landship up to the fleet, then return with a full wing to the site of the great forge.

 

Did they address how the TIEs were able to get to Bo's fortress?  Was she literally just on Mandlore's moon, Concordia, because I got the impression she was on an entirely different planet in-system.

 

Was the rundown base and Stormtroopers in shabby armor just a front for Gideon the whole time?

 

Lastly, (and I suppose it's a running joke at this point), but are radar and early-warning systems just not a thing in Star Wars?  I mean, Greef basically needed his droid to visually see the Mandalorian fleet in order to advise of its approach, and anyone can apparently get anything onto or off of any planet at any time, including Coruscant...

 

[Techwright]

7 hours ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

Wow, what a whammy of an episode!   (I'll answer hidden content in orange)

  Hide contents

I don't think I have too much to say about it, you all covered a lot of it rather nicely. About shed a tear when Paz Vizsla went down for the team and sacrificed himself.

He died with hoards dead at his feet and with his fist literally around the enemy's throat.  I suspect he'd have had his teeth in it if he was permitted to remove his helmet.  No finer warriors death.

 

I will say, I am surprised that neither Din's nor Paz's helmets were removed, even if it would just be to insult them.

I agree.  Paz's absolutely, but maybe the writers were sparing us some outrage.  Din's...well, hate to say it, but he just got moved to debriefing, so... Fortunately, the waters are close by.

 

I do enjoy that The Mandalorian is providing us with some much needed insight as to how The First Order came to be from the fall of the Empire.

I've re-watched portions a few times now.  Did you notice that Gideon was miffed that Thrawn's forces were constantly requisitioning more, and not so much for the rest of the Shadow Council?  This has left me wondering if Gideon and the Shadow Council represent the First Order, but Thrawn is secretly in charge of the Final Order, a huge operation by comparison.

 

Grogu in his IG-12 suit had me in stitches, and I love the jump in growth we see as he is able to finally achieve at least a basic form of communication.

Good to see another recognizes growth this episode.  I just got done watching a fairly prominent reviewer pouting because "they can't figure out what to do with Grogu". Clearly not focused beyond the "cute".

 

As to the second spy, I feel like Axe Woves is almost too obvious of a choice, like the writers have set him up so that you'll think he's the second spy. And while I'm not sure there's enough there for it to be true, something weird hit me about the Armorer being the possible spy when she's flying the Gauntlet back to the fleet. Or I wonder if like, a tracking chip or bug or something got attached to someone like Grogu or Din and that's how the Imps are keeping tabs on things.

This is a question I've been puzzling all day (I've time on my hands).  And my thoughts shift back and forth.  Axe is the one I've considered a second spy, but I'm constantly going back to those odd, held-on shots of the Gauntlet ferrying the Armorer and the injured.  I'm still not convinced the Armorer is a spy, at least not willingly.  I don't know about trackers.  But I'm working forward from the moment Gideon learns of the Mandalorian merger, which clearly shocks him, implying there's no spy in either tribe.  He'd plot forward from that point.  That leaves only one group: the survivor tribe.  While I'm not sure why those with Bo-Katan didn't turn and attack her during the ambush, I can see the "injured" as being infiltrators in a Trojan Horse maneuver.  The Armorer is no fool, so either these guys were actually injured to complete their cover story, or the Armorer is in on it.  I prefer to think she isn't, which is going to spell big trouble for the infiltrators if she finds out.   As to why Mandalorians would do this, Gideon possibly had them and their families enslaved, beaten, underfed, and anything else to break them.  Then he may have threatened their families with death if they didn't follow his orders to be his spies.  There's weaknesses in the argument, and as I said, this is just speculation. I've speculated at least two other possibilities.  If nothing else, the title was genius, getting folks on edge all episode and into next week.

 

I was totally not expecting Moff Gideon to have his little base setup on the planet of Mandalore though, which explains his interest in their desire to take it back. Makes sense though, who would have thought of Mandalore as being somewhere to house a base like that? I also wouldn't be surprised if he's the reason that comms normally can't pass through (hence why his stuff works and outsiders' don't--it keeps people at bay and thinking the planet is toxic and such).

Agreed, and yeah, I saw everything and totally missed the clues regarding the hidden base.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Techwright

[TygerDarkstorm]

Thank you, I totally forgot to mention...

Spoiler

That the land ship Mandalorians might be some sort of spies for Moff Gideon. I briefly thought about it during the episode and then forgot in my write up, lol.

 

Axe Woves just seems like that obvious, we're setting this guy up to be the bad guy, but really, he's actually a good guy and we're gonna drop a plot twist on you kinda thing.

 

[Techwright]

4 minutes ago, biostem said:

A few of my thoughts:

(orange responses)

  Hide contents

It's like people forget they have lightsabers;  As soon as they're trapped between the 2 blast doors, imagine Gideon's reaction of Bo immediately went to the rear door and cut their way out right then and there.  I wasn't so disturbed on that (she was distracted by her people being trapped beyond the front door, but I see your point.  I was more irritated that they kept shooting the windows in the front door.  It is clearly Clearsteel, or whatever they call it in Star Wars.  Shooting it repeatedly doesn't even scratch it, so why continue?

 

Grogu could apparently levitate the mudhorn to save Din, but just stands by while he's being ganged up on by like 5 supercommandos?

Thought something similar (scary).  Probably just the writers's failure, yes. Grogu had demonstrated force choke before.  The door doesn't stop the Force, though perhaps a kid doesn't realize that.  I kept hoping he'd rip off jetpacks and push people over the edge.  Silly Jedi, teaching him peacekeeping moves.

 

Paz Vizsla was doing pretty well until he had to ditch his heavy repeating blaster.  I guess he didn't notice all those other blasters around him once his overheated?  I mean, I get that the Praetorian guards would have beaten him either way, but I think he would have held out longer if he took the other blasters. 

Nice catch.  I kept wondering why he didn't pulse the gun to keep it cool.  It was clear while the "standard" forces were attacking that his beskar was holding out very well. He could have taken a few more hits to keep the gun in the fight, I speculate.

 

How was Gideon able to get a transmission offworld, if they said there was no way to do so, due to the atmospheric disturbances.  I also don't get why they wouldn't take all the survivors from that weird landship up to the fleet, then return with a full wing to the site of the great forge. 

You've arrived at a key thought that a few of us have had.  Gideon either has a way to punch through the interference, or he's got technology creating it.

 

Did they address how the TIEs were able to get to Bo's fortress?  Was she literally just on Mandlore's moon, Concordia, because I got the impression she was on an entirely different planet in-system. 

You are correct, it is another planet, Kalevala, in a close orbit to Mandalore's own. Remember how fast R5 was able to get Grogu to Bo's castle from Mandalore? Star Wars ships move pretty fast, even back in the Prequel era.  This episode silently demonstrates that the bombers came from Moff Gideons base.

 

Was the rundown base and Stormtroopers in shabby armor just a front for Gideon the whole time? Probably.  As the Shadow Council noted, one of their strategies was to make the New Republic believe they are a weak, ragtag, disorganized bunch of warlords.  Sun Tzu tactics 101.

 

Lastly, (and I suppose it's a running joke at this point), but are radar and early-warning systems just not a thing in Star Wars?  I mean, Greef basically needed his droid to visually see the Mandalorian fleet in order to advise of its approach, and anyone can apparently get anything onto or off of any planet at any time, including Coruscant...

While I don't discount the running joke, especially where that deliberately annoying droid is involved, we see from the first shot of Nevarro that the city is still largely being cleared of rubble, and reconstruction scaffolding is up.  It's probably reasonable to assume any advanced warning system was destroyed and will need rebuilding.  As to Coruscant, that one's easy.  Moff Gideon has already demonstrated the ability to place spies in strategic places on Coruscant, We've also seen that the New Republic already suffers from ridiculous levels of beaurocratic ineptitude.  It's highly probably that the spy droid was smuggled onto the planet, either by direct agents of Gideon, or by the unscrupulous looking for a quick, full purse of credits.

 

 

[Mr. Vee]

Spoiler

My traitor money is on Axe's second in command. She was a little too quick to volunteer. I thought Axe confirmed as traitor when he was the one who ran off to warn the fleet until Gideon sent the TIEs after the fleet. That'd hardly be necessary if his confederate would be the one in charge of it.

I'm discounting the armourer since she's obviously a force ghost of Satine Kryze, who'll reveal herself and Obi-Wan as Bo's real parents in the finale 😛

 

[Techwright]

Just realized something and I've seen no reaction comments anywhere concerning it:

 

Spoiler

It's easy to overlook in the chaos, but Din was just stripped of his final unusual weapon.  He's now lost the beskar spear, the dark saber, and the whistling birds.  I'm not sure he can recover the last one.  They stripped the arm piece off and tossed it away, then hauled him to some other part of the base.  Working from the reasonable assumption that he'll survive, he'll still have the standard Mandalorian weapons going forward (the blaster is easy to replace), but I'm wondering if the writers are prepping to give him another unusual weapon.  Can't say for certain, but one of those Praetorian Guard energy polearms might be nice.

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Spoiler

4 hours ago, Techwright said:

It's easy to overlook in the chaos, but Din was just stripped of his final unusual weapon.

Does a Force-sensitive toddler in a tricked-out assassin droid count as an unusual weapon?

 

Current betting on who "The Spies" from the episode title are:

 

- Evil HYDRA dude - Evens (yes, him still: obvious, but sometimes the simpler writing is better, especially when there's a lot going on in these last two)

- Bo Katan's sidekicks (all three) - 5/2: some people like the pirate life and settling down under anyone's command is a step down

- The Armo(u)rer: - 7/1 - many, many conspiracy theories about her being a cult leader and whatnot. Still not quite buying it. Think her arc is more a blaze-of-glory ending thing.

- None Of The Above  - 20/1. Possible reasons:

-- It refers to Gideon's/Brainy Smurf's network of informants and inflitrators throughout the New Republic

-- Filoni was just screwing with all of you

-- The title just sounded good

 

Also: interview with Brendan Wayne (aka Mando's body actor for a large number of the shots) teasing that the finale is a finale, will be "heartbreaking", and other such things. Filoni similarly teasing that this is an ending, though will leave audience cheering, and leads into a number of other things happening across the SW universe.

 

So I don't think this is a second doom of Mandalore, but I suspect Din and/or Bo's sacrifice will lead to their becoming a legend that facilitates their planet's rebirth.

 

And that this is the end of the Mandalorian as a series. It's been a huge draw for D+ and made Pedro a global superstar. But even with the innovations ILM have made with The Volume/StageCraft, it's still relatively expensive to do at this quality (and Bob Iger is cutting back on the D+ budget), Favreauloni have a tonne of other jobs on now, and there are new stories to tell: Ahsoka, Skeleton Crew, the Acolyte, and more.

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Techwright]

8 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

  Hide contents

Does a Force-sensitive toddler in a tricked-out assassin droid count as an unusual weapon?

 

Current betting on who "The Spies" from the episode title are:

 

- Evil HYDRA dude - Evens (yes, him still: obvious, but sometimes the simpler writing is better, especially when there's a lot going on in these last two)

- Bo Katan's sidekicks (all three) - 5/2: some people like the pirate life and settling down under anyone's command is a step down

- The Armo(u)rer: - 7/1 - many, many conspiracy theories about her being a cult leader and whatnot. Still not quite buying it. Think her arc is more a blaze-of-glory ending thing.

- None Of The Above  - 20/1. Possible reasons:

-- It refers to Gideon's/Brainy Smurf's network of informants and inflitrators throughout the New Republic

-- Filoni was just screwing with all of you

-- The title just sounded good

 

Also: interview with Brendan Wayne (aka Mando's body actor for a large number of the shots) teasing that the finale is a finale, will be "heartbreaking", and other such things. Filoni similarly teasing that this is an ending, though will leave audience cheering, and leads into a number of other things happening across the SW universe.

 

So I don't think this is a second doom of Mandalore, but I suspect Din and/or Bo's sacrifice will lead to their becoming a legend that facilitates their planet's rebirth.

 

And that this is the end of the Mandalorian as a series. It's been a huge draw for D+ and made Pedro a global superstar. But even with the innovations ILM have made with The Volume/StageCraft, it's still relatively expensive to do at this quality (and Bob Iger is cutting back on the D+ budget), Favreauloni have a tonne of other jobs on now, and there are new stories to tell: Ahsoka, Skeleton Crew, the Acolyte, and more.

 

 

Ohhh, boy.  One almost needs a roll of a 20-sided die to guess what the title of "The Spies" actually means.

 

As to the rest of that hidden content:

Spoiler

 They need to be very, very (did I mention "very"?) careful about ending this story.  Most fans see The Mandalorian as a "last hope", the revival of Star Wars, and if they end the series here, on a tragedy, well..."blood in the water" doesn't begin to suggest what will happen.  It would have significant implications for the reputations of Favreau, Filoni, and Famuyiwa, and may horribly damage the franchise, including new tentpoles Andor and Tales of the Jedi, and presumed tentpole Ahsoka.

 

But I suspect the series will not end here.  There will be a great tragedy, yes, Wayne confirms that, but not an end.  First, Favreau and Filoni have both been on record saying they will create for this series as long as possible and they don't have an intended endpoint in site.  Second, citing Radio Times, Favreau has confirmed he's working on season 4 of The Mandalorian and that Filoni's work on Ahsoka is "very much informing the writing".  In other words, they're cooperative, and not pulling a Kevin Feige leaving Agents of SHIELD in the dark about the MCU "blip".  (*Ahem* Sorry. Still sore about that.) 

 

What I can say is that this is likely going to be the show's "Empire Strikes Back" moment.  That implies that it is going to be brutal, and there's probably not a carbonite Deus Ex Machina involved.  (The idea of Din with a droid hand does have a certain appeal, though. I mean, the guy hating droids becoming part droid.  It practically writes itself.) With Wayne's revelation, this is the first time I've realized that the show title "The Mandalorian" might not not refer to Din Djarin, but to Grogu, the only other one who has been there from the beginning (not counting Greef Karga, for which the title makes no sense).  In such a case, the title represents Grogu's development and rise to Mandalorian status.  It's just a thought.  I've seen some saying that they think Din will be killed and the show will continue under Bo-Katan.  Not really sure that maintains the integrity of the title "The Mandalorian" if the show has to be about two of them. (Short of a actor dying or wanting off.  Admittedly, the technique worked for the old western Maverick.  There were, what, 3 or 4 of the Maverick clan that took turns wearing the title?)  I'd accept it if the title was "The Mandalorians".  But the title can work in the singular if it was meant for Grogu.

 

With Wayne's revelation, if I was to theorize, the Armorer will perish heroically.  Bo-Katan might perish heroically.  The sighting of the mythosaur might not be prophecy but a misinterpretation by well-intentioned individuals.  On the other hand, Bo-Katan might go out in a blaze of glory riding the mythosaur to the destruction of the Imperial base.  The Mandalorians, both tribes might be extinguished, though I suspect a remnant will survive.  Why?  Because they've got three cold drake chicks waiting for them back at their home.  That would be a terrible violation of Chekov's gun if that never comes back into the story.  Those drakes need to grow up, saddle up Mandalorians, and start terrorizing enemies.

 

Hypothesis then:  The landship Mandalorians are compromised, either by threat to what they hold dear or by allegiance.  The "sick" are a Trojan Horse maneuver to compromise the fleet before a TIE fighter attack, and possibly to secure the light cruiser.  The ones on the ground don't fit a good profile admittedly, as they should have turned on Bo-Katan's forces as soon as the base doors opened and the beskar-wearing troopers attacked.  The armorer will be true to her people but will go out in a blaze of glory. The fleet will be destroyed or scattered.  Worst case scenario, Moff Gideon's forces recapture the light cruiser.  Bo-Katan will move to the mines and somehow bring the mythosaur into the conflict.  Either Bo or Din perish, with the survivor caring for Grogu.  The Mandalorian forces will be decimated.  With the bid to recolonize Mandalore failed, Gideon will turn his attention to Nevarro to stamp out the last remnants of the Children of the Watch and to destroy Nevarro in retaliation for their destruction of his secret base on the planet.  Mandalorian season 4 will be about survival and rebuilding for any scattered remnants. It will also be about Moff Gideons new beskar-wearing, clone Death Troopers. Possibly clones of himself. It's possible, depending on the scale of the loss, that Grogu returns to Luke for sanctuary and additional training, more focused this time.  I do think Grogu will survive.  Why?  Other than the fact that fans would riot in the streets if he perished (and probably annihilate Disney sales for all time to come), he's got two smoking Chekov guns: the beskar mail and the beskar rondelle.  Neither of these have seen meaningful use yet.  It may come to that this next episode, but they suggest survival.

 

I've been noticing subtle placings of Grogu near Bo recently.  He was sitting in her lap while she was piloting this past episode.  Not sure where they're going with that, unless its to make fans uneasily believe that Din has become dispensable.

 

[Glacier Peak]

Hope this isn't a spoiler because I don't have the function while on mobile, but were those purple lightsabers in the last part of the episode??

[Glacier Peak]

And one more thing, why are they referring to a historical entity like a Praetorian Guard? I thought this was a long time ago and far away?

[Mr. Vee]

I thought they were those electrostaffs from Revenge of the Sith rather than lightsabery things. 

And as to the latter, the same reason Boba Fett keeps talking about his daimyo I guess?

[Techwright]

5 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Hope this isn't a spoiler because I don't have the function while on mobile, but were those purple lightsabers in the last part of the episode??

Not lightsabers, but a polearm weapon of some sort.  I'm not certain they've been seen in Star Wars before.  The closest comparison I've found, so far, is a weapon with the Praetorian Guard in The Last Jedi.  That weapon is called a vibro-voulge, and though very similar in nature, it has a distinctively different design.

 

What I was puzzled about is that three Praetorian Guards all carry the same weapon.  When The Last Jedi came out, the talk was that Praetorian Guards all carried different weapons, and that they were picked in part for their highly specialized skills with their weapon of choice.

EDIT: see my major corrections to my comments in posting lower in the thread.

 

5 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

And one more thing, why are they referring to a historical entity like a Praetorian Guard? I thought this was a long time ago and far away?

 

For the same reason that the heroes of Star Wars are named "Luke" and "Ben" despite being from a different time and galaxy.  George Lucas, in keeping with the serial sci-fi of the 1930s to 1950s on which he based Star Wars, made a design choice to often incorporate names and concepts from the real world.  This has the added benefit of connecting the viewer to that fantasy world.

Edited April 16, 2023 by Techwright

[biostem]

Can someone just clarify something for me - is it that some Mandalorians have Beskar armor, and are able to tank blaster shots like they were nothing, while others have pieces made from other materials, or is it just a plot contrivance that one blaster shot may knock a Mandalorian on their butts, while another sparks harmlessly and they carry on completely unfazed.  I have to assume it's the former, as Din originally only had the helmet.  Along the same lines...

 

Spoiler

It seems some blaster shots took out the Supercommandos in 1 shot, while others took multiple shots.  Maybe some were between the plates or something?

 

[Mr. Vee]

54 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Not lightsabers, but a polearm weapon of some sort.  I'm not certain they've been seen in Star Wars before.  The closest comparison I've found, so far, is a weapon with the Praetorian Guard in The Last Jedi.  That weapon is called a vibro-voulge, and though very similar in nature, it has a distinctively different design.

 

 

Were they not this https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Electrostaff ? 

[Techwright]

2 hours ago, Mr. Vee said:

 

Were they not this https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Electrostaff ? 

 

I don't believe so, but I thank you for the challenge as it has made me review the situation with greater care and with new pictures, leading to a completely different understanding. You'll find with this corrected understanding, that you got one part of it right.  I on the other hand, got...one part of it right.

 

 Electrostaffs (staves?) were a combination of blunt weapon and electricity.  Any time you see someone punched with one of those, it could have a stun effect from the electricity, and if enough is applied it could electrocute, but it didn't pierce, at least none that I saw, and I've seen them many times, mostly with General Grievous' guards.   Most seen in Star Wars are double-ended in their electrical use.  There is a version of electrostaff used by the Emperor's Guard, but they are a different group considered a class higher than the Praetorian Guard, and not present in this fight.  I'm also unclear if that version is single or double ended. 

 

I'm going to need to put the rest into a spoiler box:

Spoiler

Now, the first thing I need to do is a correction.  These are NOT all the same weapon.  (Bad Techwright! No cookie for you!)  They are 3 different weapons and all 3 appeared in Snoke's throne room in The Last Jedi.  I've watched video of that scene, slowed down to confirm.  They're in still shots as well. Here's one, with the weapons noted by blue arrows:

And here they are in The Mandalorian:

1. the vibro-voulge is in the center.  It may be a little hard to determine due to the angle, but I've seen it at several pauses of the video now.

2. the segmented one to your right is a Bilari electro-chain whip.  In The Last Jedi it is unleashed in its whip form, but here it is used only in its saber form.    To me, in this form, it actually resembles the training sabers used by Jedi in Star Wars: The Old Republic.

3. The weapon to your left, partially obscured in the shot is a vibro-arbir blade.  It can be used in this staff form, or disconnected into two identical hand weapons.  Curiously, the wielder is not wearing his leader's helmet, the one seen in the The Last Jedi shot.

 

#2 & #3 are definitely bladed. #1 I'm not certain of, in part because the point of it has changed between the appearance in The Last Jedi and that here in The Mandalorian. If you look at the shot up top in the throne room, you'll see the whip has a long sharp point.  In this episode it has a short point that appears blunted. This may have been done as a safety measure for the stunt work as this weapon is seen punching Paz a couple of times.

 

 

These weapons are electrified, so in that sense, you are correct.  Here's a shot where the vibro-voulge hits home, with both blade and electrical discharge:

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Techwright

[Techwright]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

Can someone just clarify something for me - is it that some Mandalorians have Beskar armor, and are able to tank blaster shots like they were nothing, while others have pieces made from other materials, or is it just a plot contrivance that one blaster shot may knock a Mandalorian on their butts, while another sparks harmlessly and they carry on completely unfazed.  I have to assume it's the former, as Din originally only had the helmet.  Along the same lines...

 

  Hide contents

It seems some blaster shots took out the Supercommandos in 1 shot, while others took multiple shots.  Maybe some were between the plates or something?

 

Exactly on both counts.  If a Child of the Watch has full beskar armor, it is because they earned it.  Otherwise it is an amalgam of armor types.  I'm not certain whether the Nite Owls all had complete beskar armor, but if they're like Sabine Wren of Rebels, the beskar is passed down for generations within the family and can be reforged to the current owners' needs.  This is probably the case with Paz Viszla, who descended from a noble house, but as many of the CotW were foundlings, they have to earn their beskar.  Din got a lucky break when he turned Grogu in for a beskar reward that pretty much completed his armor. 

Spoiler

Right.  If you know your enemy is wearing beskar, the target points are where he's not wearing beskar.  It actually has precedent in real warfare.  Medieval combatants targeted the joints and any other gaps in knights armor.  Paz's mini-gun was dropping so many enemy because it was shooting all over them.

 

I really don't understand why beskar armor is made for the ribcage, but not for the gut.  I understand the need for flexibility, but that's a really soft target.

 

[biostem]

And if those wrist mini-shields are as good as they appear to be, or at least we have the precedent of the Gungan handheld shields, why aren't they employed more often.  I get that they can't really be on 24/7, but c'mon!  It's also odd that female mandalorians appear to lack thigh armor...

 

 vs