SD/SS Tanker fun as it sounds?

Malinkadink · July 24, 2022

Now upon doing some research I realize that rage crash means defenses exposed which is bad with a defense primary but I think theres a build that actually has enough melee def to still be above 45% even with the crash.

Reason I'm considering this pairing is that idea of shield charge to initiate and then footstomp sounds like a heck of a fun opener, lots of FF procs that can be slotted as well as cross punch in fighting tree. Thoughts?

Mezmera · July 24, 2022

Shield is a blast to play on tank and it can be built into a top tier lead tank. If you want to main tank though Rage is such a bad power to build around. You won't want to self handicap yourself when there's better builds to be had especially when you can get more out of the Gaussian proc in a Build Up power which imo is a better power to have than Rage. Foot Stomp is great sure but you can do better overall with other powerset pairings.

Shield Charge is a jewel of a power which will pair well with any of the tanker aoes in their assaults. I do real well with the enlarged Spinning Strike from Street Justice and the Mighty Judgment. Of course if you wanted to just build a proc tank instead of a main unkillable tank that changes things a little but Shield is for sure versatile enough to get what you want out of it.

Hyperstrike · July 24, 2022

Some ideas.

Especially for avoidance of the -Def on the Rage crash.

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Boot To The Head (NA NA!): Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(3), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(3), UnbGrd-Max HP%(5), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(5), GldArm-3defTpProc(7)
Level 1: Jab -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(9), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mk'Bit-Dam%(11)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(15), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(17), Rct-ResDam%(17)
Level 4: Haymaker -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(19), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(23)
Level 6: True Grit -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(23), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 8: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 12: Against All Odds -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 14: Phalanx Fighting -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(27)
Level 16: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 18: Grant Cover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(27)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(29), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(31), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(31)
Level 22: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(33), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(33), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(34)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(34), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(36)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(37)
Level 32: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 35: Hurl -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(39), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(40), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(40)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(40), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(43)
Level 41: Char -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold(A), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg(43), SprEnt-End/Rchg(43), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End(45), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg(45), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(45)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Apc-Acc/Rchg(46), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Apc-Dam%(48)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Bmbdmt-Dam(A), Bmbdmt-Acc/Rech/End(48), Bmbdmt-Dam/Rech(48), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(50), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech/End(50), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(50)
Level 49: Super Jump -- Lnch-+Special(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(13)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(15)
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
Level 50: Diamagnetic Core Flawless Interface
Level 49: Double Jump
------------

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Gobbledigook · July 24, 2022

If you don't take Rage i would not bother with SS at all. Shield/SS will work just fine. Tankers have enough defense/DDR and resistances in shield to be able to take a hit to defense for 10 seconds now and then. Rage buffs damage and +to hit. It is up to you if you stack Rage though. You will either get used to it or hate it. It doesn't bother me because i will make sure my heavy proc attacks are ready during that crash or use a buff/incarnate for example. Just need to manage and be prepared for that crash, even popping one defense inspiration will cover you.

Full Tank mode you may want to one or none stack only though. Shield charge will not be up nearly as often as foot stomp. Epic power pool can help with extra AoE also.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Gobbledegook

Spaghetti Betty · July 24, 2022

It is completely possible for your DEF to be fine during Rage Crash. You might not even have to worry about taking too many stray shots because of how well Shield can build RES.

That End bar, though? Yikes. I'm not a huge fan of builds that require Ageless.

Bastille Boy · July 24, 2022

I have a Shield / Super Strength tanker. It is great fun to play. With Foot Stomp, double Rage, and the damage bonus from Against All Odds, this toon can do serious AoE damage.

I've run a solo AE 801.2 with this toon at +3/8. I'm not sure yet whether it can do AE 801.2 at +4/8. My Shield/EM tanker can do it easily. So I'd say that my Shield / SS tanker is decently tough, good enough to handle 98% of the game with no problem. It wouldn't be my first choice for the most difficult missions on the most difficult modes.

Infinitum · July 25, 2022

19 hours ago, Malinkadink said:

Now upon doing some research I realize that rage crash means defenses exposed which is bad with a defense primary but I think theres a build that actually has enough melee def to still be above 45% even with the crash.

Reason I'm considering this pairing is that idea of shield charge to initiate and then footstomp sounds like a heck of a fun opener, lots of FF procs that can be slotted as well as cross punch in fighting tree. Thoughts?

It is awesome.

Eternal Patriot - Tanker (Shield Defense - Super Strength) (1).mxd

That is mine - rage crash is nothing to this build - plus footstomp and KO blow are procd so they still do decent damage even during a rage crash.

ironjoe · July 25, 2022

Of the 29 level 50 Iron Joe's I have my primary Iron Joe is still my SD/SS Iron Joe. Shield Defense and Super Strength complement each other offensively while making the crash not a huge deal. I consider it a more advanced tank pairing as you do have to plan for things but it is quite manageable for a veteran player and it is a ton of fun to play. Rage + AAO pair for some juicy damage. Foot stomp + Shield charge are a very satisfying pairing in large groups. When you get to Incarnates Mighty Radial just adds to the fun of that.

Hyperstrike · July 25, 2022

15 hours ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

It is completely possible for your DEF to be fine during Rage Crash. You might not even have to worry about taking too many stray shots because of how well Shield can build RES.

That End bar, though? Yikes. I'm not a huge fan of builds that require Ageless.

Which End bar?
The build I demo'ed as a resting End consumption under 1.

And the endurance bump isn't that serious.

Ageless isn't "required".
You don't even need to carry blue inspies.

Spaghetti Betty · July 25, 2022

9 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Which End bar?
The build I demo'ed as a resting End consumption under 1.

And the endurance bump isn't that serious.

Ageless isn't "required".
You don't even need to carry blue inspies.

I was skimming the thread on mobile when I commented. My experience with both SS and SD is that they can be taxing on the end bar in long fights.

Now that I've looked at your build, it's very safe. The resistance numbers are particularly impressive. I feel like having Fire Ball is a little redundant, but I would be putting Hand Clap there to push FF procs. There's a bit of recharge being left on the table, but that in turn would translate to a more End hungry toon. Personally I would be reaching for double stacked Rage and enough defense to compensate for that, somewhere in the mid-60s (Edit: which, after looking a bit more into it, is a pipedream).

Just my opinions. Everyone has different build philosophies which is what makes sharing so great.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Spaghetti Betty

Spaghetti Betty · July 25, 2022

I wanted to show my work, whether it measures up to what others posted or not. Please disregard if it's not your cup of tea. I didn't come here to debate or offend anyone.

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

dump truck: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- RedFrt-Def(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(7), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(9), UnbGrd-ResDam(11), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(11)
Level 1: Jab -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(9), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(15), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(46), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(13), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(13), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(15)
Level 4: Haymaker -- SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(23), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(23), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 6: Active Defense -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Taunt -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: True Grit -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(17), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Prv-Absorb%(19), Prv-Heal(21)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Phalanx Fighting -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 18: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(36), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(36)
Level 22: Hand Clap -- EndRdx-I(A), FrcFdb-Rechg%(27), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(27)
Level 24: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- ScrDrv-Dam%(A), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), ScrDrv-Acc/Rchg(45), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg(45), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(46)
Level 28: Rage -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(29), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(29), AdjTrg-Rchg(31), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(31), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(50)
Level 30: Grant Cover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(33), UnbGrd-Max HP%(33), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(33), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(34), GldArm-3defTpProc(48)
Level 35: Hurl -- Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(37), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Thn-Acc/Dmg(40)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Arm-Acc/Rchg(39), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(40), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40)
Level 41: Weave -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def/Rchg(42), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(42), Rct-Def/EndRdx(43), Rct-Def(43)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 47: Cross Punch -- Acc-I(A), FrcFdb-Rechg%(48)
Level 49: Gloom -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(5)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(A), SynSck-EndMod(3), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(3), PrfShf-End%(5)
Level 18: Double Jump
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
Level 50: Diamagnetic Core Flawless Interface
------------

I like to go hog-wild for damage. That translates into quite a few of my builds becoming s***-cannons. Hence why, at least in my experience, Ageless looks pretty tasty for something like this.

Spaghetti Betty · July 25, 2022

Extra post. My bad.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Spaghetti Betty
need coffee

Hyperstrike · July 25, 2022

2 hours ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

I was skimming the thread on mobile when I commented. My experience with both SS and SD is that they can be taxing on the end bar in long fights.

Now that I've looked at your build, it's very safe. The resistance numbers are particularly impressive. I feel like having Fire Ball is a little redundant, but I would be putting Hand Clap there to push FF procs. There's a bit of recharge being left on the table, but that in turn would translate to a more End hungry toon. Personally I would be reaching for double stacked Rage and enough defense to compensate for that, somewhere in the mid-60s (Edit: which, after looking a bit more into it, is a pipedream).

Just my opinions. Everyone has different build philosophies which is what makes sharing so great.

Yeah. I basically look at HC has a filler power.
Basically, if it isn't doing damage or sinking a status effect, it either shouldn't be taken or should immediately be removed from your trays.

Texman · July 25, 2022

20 hours ago, Infinitum said:

It is awesome.

Eternal Patriot - Tanker (Shield Defense - Super Strength) (1).mxd 5.14 kB · 4 downloads

That is mine - rage crash is nothing to this build - plus footstomp and KO blow are procd so they still do decent damage even during a rage crash.

I've been using your build on my shield/ss tanker and just wanted to say thanks, it's been great. I do have a question though. The res and def numbers I get in game are lower than what is showing in mids. Is this due to mids reflecting ATO res procs or phalanx saturation or mids just being off from in game values? Thanks!

Hyperstrike · July 25, 2022

14 minutes ago, Texman said:

I've been using your build on my shield/ss tanker and just wanted to say thanks, it's been great. I do have a question though. The res and def numbers I get in game are lower than what is showing in mids. Is this due to mids reflecting ATO res procs or phalanx saturation or mids just being off from in game values? Thanks!

First thing: The numbers in Mids are closest approximations. They're not PERFECTLY identical. We're usually talking micro-fractional percentages.

The main culprit is likely: Reactive Defenses: Scaling Damage Resist.

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Reactive_Defenses:_Scaling_Damage_Resistance

Infinitum · July 26, 2022

4 hours ago, Texman said:

I've been using your build on my shield/ss tanker and just wanted to say thanks, it's been great. I do have a question though. The res and def numbers I get in game are lower than what is showing in mids. Is this due to mids reflecting ATO res procs or phalanx saturation or mids just being off from in game values? Thanks!

3 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

First thing: The numbers in Mids are closest approximations. They're not PERFECTLY identical. We're usually talking micro-fractional percentages.

The main culprit is likely: Reactive Defenses: Scaling Damage Resist.

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Reactive_Defenses:_Scaling_Damage_Resistance

@Hyperstrike It isn't Reactive Defenses - never is - it always grants a base of 3% which is how Mids Calculates it in my build and how it calculates it in game. I just confirmed this and what I will say below in game also.

The issue falls to the ATO not having any stacks to boost resistance and Phalanx fighting not having an ally in range to boost defense - so gold star @Texman you nailed it. In this case Mids is perfectly identical to what the actual in game numbers are once you take this into consideration

I always calculate it with 1 stack and with 1 ally in range because it is realistic - and honestly wouldn't matter if you didn't because the build is still bulletproof :-)

Thank you for the shout out and the kind words @Texman It always makes me feel good when someone has found use from my builds!

Edited July 26, 2022 by Infinitum

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