Best sets for Relentless Aeon and Invincible ITF

[FUBARczar]

I often am asked about what to build for the harder content.  So, just to put this out there and to welcome the contributions of others, here are my recommendations for buff/debuffs sets for Relentless Aeon and Invincible ITF:

 

1. It's good to have more then one of these as either a Corr or Defender so you can dress appropriately according to the needs of the team 

 

Depending on the team any one of these sets can be good, and fit in well.  But truth be told not all sets were created equal for Relentless and Invincible.

 

2. T1 Sets typically are looking to buff and debuff and heal.

Cold - absolutely fundamental +def for team along with great debuffs 

Dark - adds a little Def, resist, stealth, and AoE heal & Rez.  Also strong -Regen, -res, -acc, and -dmg

Kinetics - debuff enemy DMG and +DMG, +rech for the team and strong AoE heal that promoted the team staying a bit tighter.

Nature- very strong team buffs, adds absorb shield, Regen, resistance, tohit, DMG

Thermal - does everything, buff, debuff and heal.

 

T2 - does something really well while weaker in other areas.

Elec Affinity - sure it's strong but most players either fall into the buff too much/ not stacking enough trap (b/c of the flashiness?) Or the bus are poorly/never placed. But @Voltak you are welcome to bring yours 😛

Pain - like thermal but with limited debuffs and slightly better healing.

Poison - strong debuffs

Rad - solid and useful but not as much to offer survival as T1

Storm - Sone debuff and adds to Dmg

Time - great buffer, +Def, tohit, recharge, recovery.  Mediocre heal and debuffs 

Trick Arrow - strong debuffs

 

T3 - Limited more than T1&2 in either strength, utility or diversity 

Empathy - Awesome healer, no debuffs, usefulness is there but scope is narrow 

FF - strong +Def and that's it, narrow in scope 

Sonic - only resist shields, not even the best -resist debuffer

Traps - limited, slow (the force Fields should be a back pack) 

Edited September 6, 2022 by FUBARczar

[Bionic_Flea]

I'd rather have a great player on a T3 than a so-so player on a T1.

[Ruin Mage]

Traps is great, frick you.

[PLVRIZR]

51 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I'd rather have a great player on a T3 than a so-so player on a T1.

 

Invite FIREBLLR (Fire/Therm) to your Excelsior team and get both! 😁

[FUBARczar]

6 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I'd rather have a great player on a T3 than a so-so player on a T1.

I'd rather have a great player on a T1 😜 

[FUBARczar]

6 hours ago, Shadeknight said:

Traps is great, frick you.

This doesn't take away from traps, It just doesn't keep up on fast moving Relentless/Invincible teams.  It just doesn't have as much to offer in these narrow circumstances.

[Voltak]

Elec Affinity definitely belongs on T1. 

The only other set that comes close to the powerful buffing/healing of Elec Affinity is Nature. 

I read this post after I schooled @FUBARczar on the issue. I am sure he wrote this before discussion the issue with me

I play both, and, modesty a little to the side, I play both of them well. 

I have lots of experience with both. 

Now, in my best case scenario, I want a Nature and an Elec Affinity in the team, since Elec Affinity will buff Nature like no other set can buff a nature, namely because of AMP UP being permanently placed on him or her. 

The other possible combo mixesI have done personally is Elec Affinity with Empathy and Nature with Empathy. 

The regen auras play a huge role for survival and sustaining. 
Adrenaline Boost and Regen aura on any Brute or tanker and it is going to be extremely hard to kill him, and if you have a WP tanker, it's going to be nigh immortal. 

Incandescence is a key incarnate to have for any buffer/healer.  

_______________________________________________________________________
I want to help out Fubar here in explaining his thinking
The reason why the only debuffers in his list of T1 is Cold and Thermal is because Cold (or Thermal) has buffs and debuffs. 
Nature has some and Elec Affinity has some but certainly they are no where near the big boys of debuff categories.  Nature has some good resists debuffs, which can also multiply the damage debuffs. 
If I was making this list, I would 
Separate buffs and debuffs, some powers might make it on both lists. 

Debuffs only, I have to hand it to Trick Arrow, the king of all Debuffs sets and it's mainly because of the Acid Arrow power, a power unlike any other in all the debuffs sets.  
That's the one that lowers the resistances to all the debuffs resistances , thus amplifying w/e other debuffs are casts. 

Poison provides very strong resistances debuffs which also increase dmg 

The only SPECIFIC COMBO I would place on a T1 or T2 is Sonic/Sonic defender or Corruptor if it's an all Corruptor team. 
It has to be Sonic/Sonic combo and not Sonic/ something else. 
The reason is that Sonic resonance has a total of 60% resistance debuff but when combined with Sonic Blast, that amount is significantly higher, easily dishing out 100%+ resistance debuffs. 

Traps would also be among the contenders for strong debuffers. 

I would make two lists. 

One power set that I would place in its own category is Kinetics. 
It is simply way way too different at what it does as a whole. 
The fastest runs in 4 stars ITF runs is with kinetics and I don't think that will ever change. 
It is a must when you want to do something well and do it as fast as you can. 





______________________________________________________
 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Voltak

[Voltak]

9 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I'd rather have a great player on a T3 than a so-so player on a T1.

This comment is not fair at all. 
This post is not about quality player nor is it about player skills 

Having said that, I have to echo what Fubar said, I rather have a great player with power sets that contribute in the strongest ways. 
You are not going to have that is most PUGs, but it is w/e it is. 

The discussion about how good a player is can be taken to another thread but this is not the place. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Voltak

[Astralock]

Electrical Affinity is definitely a tier 1 set.  Honestly, I would put Darkness Affinity in tier 1 as well, and Dark Miasma in tier 2.  Fade and Soul Absorption are top notch.

[Bionic_Flea]

40 minutes ago, Voltak said:

This comment is not fair at all. 

I'm sorry.  I can't hear you.  Can you type louder?

[Voltak]

5 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I'm sorry.  I can't hear you.  Can you type louder?

Things not cool between us, Flea?  
 

[Bionic_Flea]

What makes you think they aren't?

 

You tell me my comment "isn't fair" and to take it somewhere else.

 

I made a joke about the font in your prior post.  Touche'

[FUBARczar]

7 hours ago, Voltak said:

Elec Affinity definitely belongs on T1. 

The only other set that comes close to the powerful buffing/healing of Elec Affinity is Nature. 

I read this post after I schooled @FUBARczar on the issue. I am sure he wrote this before discussion the issue with me

I play both, and, modesty a little to the side, I play both of them well. 

I have lots of experience with both. 

Now, in my best case scenario, I want a Nature and an Elec Affinity in the team, since Elec Affinity will buff Nature like no other set can buff a nature, namely because of AMP UP being permanently placed on him or her. 

The other possible combo mixesI have done personally is Elec Affinity with Empathy and Nature with Empathy. 

The regen auras play a huge role for survival and sustaining. 
Adrenaline Boost and Regen aura on any Brute or tanker and it is going to be extremely hard to kill him, and if you have a WP tanker, it's going to be nigh immortal. 

Incandescence is a key incarnate to have for any buffer/healer.  

_______________________________________________________________________
I want to help out Fubar here in explaining his thinking
The reason why the only debuffers in his list of T1 is Cold and Thermal is because Cold (or Thermal) has buffs and debuffs. 
Nature has some and Elec Affinity has some but certainly they are no where near the big boys of debuff categories.  Nature has some good resists debuffs, which can also multiply the damage debuffs. 
If I was making this list, I would 
Separate buffs and debuffs, some powers might make it on both lists. 

Debuffs only, I have to hand it to Trick Arrow, the king of all Debuffs sets and it's mainly because of the Acid Arrow power, a power unlike any other in all the debuffs sets.  
That's the one that lowers the resistances to all the debuffs resistances , thus amplifying w/e other debuffs are casts. 

Poison provides very strong resistances debuffs which also increase dmg 

The only SPECIFIC COMBO I would place on a T1 or T2 is Sonic/Sonic defender or Corruptor if it's an all Corruptor team. 
It has to be Sonic/Sonic combo and not Sonic/ something else. 
The reason is that Sonic resonance has a total of 60% resistance debuff but when combined with Sonic Blast, that amount is significantly higher, easily dishing out 100%+ resistance debuffs. 

Traps would also be among the contenders for strong debuffers. 

I would make two lists. 

One power set that I would place in its own category is Kinetics. 
It is simply way way too different at what it does as a whole. 
The fastest runs in 4 stars ITF runs is with kinetics and I don't think that will ever change. 
It is a must when you want to do something well and do it as fast as you can. 





______________________________________________________
 

I am coming from the viewpoint that on a min/max team or an ad hoc team there will not be 7 spots for buff/debuff.  Maybe half (meaning 4) will go to B/D and in a tighter economy of roles I don't place as high of a value on ElecAff. And perhaps empathy should go higher, not because of AB or RA, but because of Fortitude.  Regen does help get one or two shotted.

 

I know, that you @Voltakknow that +defense is the single most valuable buff for team survival on R/I.

 

Also the personal bias/issue that I have with ElecAff is not on paper, but in practice.  Some of the buffs come at the contestant expense of attacking themselves, and other times the +resist and status protection are just in the wrong place, or none existent , especially when the team is on the move.

 

So too sun up, in an environment of limited space ElecAff isn't as valuable as other T1s in my humble biased opinion.

 

 

[Astralock]

6 hours ago, FUBARczar said:

Also the personal bias/issue that I have with ElecAff is not on paper, but in practice.  Some of the buffs come at the contestant expense of attacking themselves, and other times the +resist and status protection are just in the wrong place, or none existent , especially when the team is on the move.

 

So too sun up, in an environment of limited space ElecAff isn't as valuable as other T1s in my humble biased opinion.

 

That's why, IMO, Electrical Affinity is best on Masterminds.  Let the henchmen do the damage, and the Mastermind focus on Electrical Affinity.

[FUBARczar]

1 minute ago, Astralock said:

 

That's why, IMO, Electrical Affinity is best on Masterminds.  Let the henchmen do the damage, and the Mastermind focus on Electrical Affinity.

That makes sense

[Voltak]

8 hours ago, FUBARczar said:

I am coming from the viewpoint that on a min/max team or an ad hoc team there will not be 7 spots for buff/debuff.  Maybe half (meaning 4) will go to B/D and in a tighter economy of roles I don't place as high of a value on ElecAff. And perhaps empathy should go higher, not because of AB or RA, but because of Fortitude.  Regen does help get one or two shotted.

 

I know, that you @Voltakknow that +defense is the single most valuable buff for team survival on R/I.

 

Also the personal bias/issue that I have with ElecAff is not on paper, but in practice.  Some of the buffs come at the contestant expense of attacking themselves, and other times the +resist and status protection are just in the wrong place, or none existent , especially when the team is on the move.

 

So too sun up, in an environment of limited space ElecAff isn't as valuable as other T1s in my humble biased opinion.

 

 

Absolutely, Electric Affinity is a T1 support set, even in 801 , level 9 and 10, AEON SF, and HM ITF.

Defense and absorbs and resists are at the top for the hardest content. 

Elec Affinity Absorbs are the fastest recharge absorbs in the game.  With PB and absorb, you getting powerful absorbs that will save teams when in the move. 
The resists by elec affinity are mobile.  You cast it when in place, the team gets it. 
For example, you move to the cyst, you cast it in the area.  3 seconds later it is up again, ready to be cast even if your resists shield is up again, but it's not only a resists shield, it is also a status protection for everyone.  

Then you have empowering circuit which on a defender it is twice as strong as Tactics. It is also a decent dmg buff (permanently available) 

Fubar, you don't have any practice with Elec Affinity, unless I am missing something. 
Allow me to share with you what practice has taught me from using elec affinity, nature and empathy --

You certainly do attack as elec affinity.  It's a matter of pressing the routine powers and done.   
Those routine powers are always 

1. The resist shield for the team which is also status protection

These other powers are cast ONLY if you need them to be cast because they wore off or expired 

1. Absorb ( the absorbs are relatively close to the absorb in nature but it recharges in only 4 seconds ) That does NOT mean it will expire in 4 seconds.  It only means that if needed again, you have it way way sooner than Nature.  Nature takes WAY much longer for the absorb to recharge.   
So, for mobility and frequent use, the absorb for elec wins hands down. 

2. Empowering circuit ( To hit and dmg buff) 
3. Heal

Since elec affinity is very fast casting, that takes very little time to do. 

The only time you are busy with buffing is when the team is getting hammered very hard. 
Those times , your attacking is limited, but that has nothing to do with Elec Affinity. 
That has to do with the team getting hit too hard or too frequent that it limits how much attacking you can do as a defender with elec affinity 

Then you have the issue that elec affinity will provide the strongest recharge buffs in the game for your team mates. 
That means more dmg, more defenses if they are dependent on high recharge, more of everything that relies on high recharge. 
The new ITF is FILLED with SLOWS and -recharge debuffs in PART 2. 
Elec Affinity is perfect to help counter those debuffs. 

The rez that is up 30 secs and can potentially rez the whole team, something that is invaluable in HM ITF. It lets the team get back in the fight faster. 
The only other rez in power sets that can rez the whole team is Dark's. That takes a looong  time to recharge. 


So, yeah, practice and data suggest and support, that Elec Affinity is T1. 
Take it from someone who's played them. 

As a friend, as someone who loves teaming with you any time doing anything, please listen as I state this with kindness --
You have played neither but only been on the receiving end of them.   Please be open to try to view it from my end, the driver. 

It is a total different issue when you are at the wheel driving the car. 

 

Your comment about regen --

Regen is a very strong buff for any hard mode CoH. 
If you combine that with strong resists, a very strong regen will help tremendously. 


 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Voltak

[FUBARczar]

5 hours ago, Voltak said:

Absolutely, Electric Affinity is a T1 support set, even in 801 , level 9 and 10, AEON SF, and HM ITF.

Defense and absorbs and resists are at the top for the hardest content. 

Elec Affinity Absorbs are the fastest recharge absorbs in the game.  With PB and absorb, you getting powerful absorbs that will save teams when in the move. 
The resists by elec affinity are mobile.  You cast it when in place, the team gets it. 
For example, you move to the cyst, you cast it in the area.  3 seconds later it is up again, ready to be cast even if your resists shield is up again, but it's not only a resists shield, it is also a status protection for everyone.  

Then you have empowering circuit which on a defender it is twice as strong as Tactics. It is also a decent dmg buff (permanently available) 

Fubar, you don't have any practice with Elec Affinity, unless I am missing something. 
Allow me to share with you what practice has taught me from using elec affinity, nature and empathy --

You certainly do attack as elec affinity.  It's a matter of pressing the routine powers and done.   
Those routine powers are always 

1. The resist shield for the team which is also status protection

These other powers are cast ONLY if you need them to be cast because they wore off or expired 

1. Absorb ( the absorbs are relatively close to the absorb in nature but it recharges in only 4 seconds ) That does NOT mean it will expire in 4 seconds.  It only means that if needed again, you have it way way sooner than Nature.  Nature takes WAY much longer for the absorb to recharge.   
So, for mobility and frequent use, the absorb for elec wins hands down. 

2. Empowering circuit ( To hit and dmg buff) 
3. Heal

Since elec affinity is very fast casting, that takes very little time to do. 

The only time you are busy with buffing is when the team is getting hammered very hard. 
Those times , your attacking is limited, but that has nothing to do with Elec Affinity. 
That has to do with the team getting hit too hard or too frequent that it limits how much attacking you can do as a defender with elec affinity 

Then you have the issue that elec affinity will provide the strongest recharge buffs in the game for your team mates. 
That means more dmg, more defenses if they are dependent on high recharge, more of everything that relies on high recharge. 
The new ITF is FILLED with SLOWS and -recharge debuffs in PART 2. 
Elec Affinity is perfect to help counter those debuffs. 

The rez that is up 30 secs and can potentially rez the whole team, something that is invaluable in HM ITF. It lets the team get back in the fight faster. 
The only other rez in power sets that can rez the whole team is Dark's. That takes a looong  time to recharge. 


So, yeah, practice and data suggest and support, that Elec Affinity is T1. 
Take it from someone who's played them. 

As a friend, as someone who loves teaming with you any time doing anything, please listen as I state this with kindness --
You have played neither but only been on the receiving end of them.   Please be open to try to view it from my end, the driver. 

It is a total different issue when you are at the wheel driving the car. 

 

Your comment about regen --

Regen is a very strong buff for any hard mode CoH. 
If you combine that with strong resists, a very strong regen will help tremendously. 


 

Yeah I am not poo-pooing ElecAff it's just when making a priority list and when suggesting to others what would be the best options for them them to roll ElecAff doesn't come out on top. 

 

Not to mention I think that more players would prefer/enjoy playing those other sets more.  It's hard to find players with an affinity for ElecAff.  For me I can't play a set that has buffs that only last for 5s, along with other short duration buffs, and needing to recast everything so often.

 

But thanks for making a case and adding info about ElecAff for everyone.

[Voltak]

1 minute ago, FUBARczar said:

Yeah I am not poo-pooing ElecAff it's just when making a priority list and when suggesting to others what would be the best options for them them to roll ElecAff doesn't come out on top. 

 

Not to mention I think that more players would prefer/enjoy playing those other sets more.  It's hard to find players with an affinity for ElecAff.  For me I can't play a set that has buffs that only last for 5s, along with other short duration buffs, and needing to recast everything so often.

 

But thanks for making a case and adding info about ElecAff for everyone.

Very welcome, my friend.   The buffs don't last five seconds with the exception of the buff that works like the Force Feedback recharge + proc, except it works 100% of the time. 
That recharge boost last 4-5 seconds and it works every time it is cast. 
It's a pretty sweet buff.
After 5-6 seconds it is recharged and ready to be used again. 
If you want or need endurance boost.  Not super important like the Absorbs
That's the only one that lasts so short. 

I don't know why you said that buffs lasts only 5 seconds.  

[Doomguide2005]

🙂  Enlightening overall in the difference i feel between PuG and picked static team.   

 

@Ceejerposted a team of 8 in a thread in the Archtypes forums about pick your dream team for Hardmode content.  Interestingly it uses neither ElecAff nor NAff (or Traps 🤪).  I think this speaks to both the wondrous versatility of the ATs in CoX and the differences between a select static team and PuG (even if those folks are in the same SG, familiar with each other etc.).

That team for reference (and because I suck linking anything, like a different thread, on this phone):

 

3 Empathy/** (Sonic, Dark and Fire) 

2 Ill/Dark Affinity Controllers

2 Fire/Kinetics Corruptors 

1 SR/DM Tanker

 

     I'd probably tweak it to Empathy Corruptors for the damage hardcap everyone will be enjoying.  Tanker could likely be one of several as well. 

 

     Which begs the question of what would a team of selected T3 sets look like and function by comparison to that of top tier.?

Edited September 7, 2022 by Doomguide2005
Typos and clarity

[Astralock]

20 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

🙂  Enlightening overall in the difference i feel between PuG and picked static team.   

 

@Ceejerposted a team of 8 in a thread in the Archtypes forums about pick your dream team for Hardmode content.  Interestingly it uses neither ElecAff nor NAff (or Traps 🤪).  I think this speaks to both the wondrous versatility of the ATs in CoX and the differences between a select static team and PuG (even if those folks are in the same SG, familiar with each other etc.).

That team for reference (and because I suck linking anything, like a different thread, on this phone):

 

3 Empathy/** (Sonic, Dark and Fire) 

2 Ill/Dark Affinity Controllers

2 Fire/Kinetics Corruptors 

1 SR/DM Tanker

 

     I'd probably tweak it to Empathy Corruptors for the damage hardcap everyone will be enjoying.  Tanker could likely be one of several as well. 

 

     Which begs the question of what would a team of selected T3 sets look like and function by comparison to that of top tier.?

This is just IMO, but Electrical Affinity is underrated by many players, and Empathy is overrated by many players.  Personally, I would rather take Pain Domination or Thermal over Empathy any day.  YMMV.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Astralock

[Doomguide2005]

14 minutes ago, Astralock said:

This is just IMO, but Electrical Affinity is underrated by many players, and Empathy is overrated by many players.  Personally, I would rather take Pain Domination or Thermal over Empathy any day.  YMMV.

     In many ways that's kind of my point about the versatility of CoX.  But 3 Empath's is a very strong force as a foundation for a team.  Neither Pain or Thermal is going to put the team at 1600%+ Regeneration (trying killing the Tanker (or Thermal) while their regeneration is +2400% on top of their norms, that's well over Instant Healing levels -> the word hardcap enters the equation) or buff someone with +100% recharge plus .  They do other things Empathy doesn't do ... but in a static team they (the Empaths) don't need to do that either, that can be the focus of other teammates.  But you could build a very potent team around Thermal or Pain as well (Ask any team hit by stacked Melt Armor right?). 

     I believe you're thinking as an individual within the team rather than as the whole of the team, what do I bring to the party not knowing make-up of the team rather than the composition of the whole that will be there each time.  

[FUBARczar]

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

🙂  Enlightening overall in the difference i feel between PuG and picked static team.   

 

@Ceejerposted a team of 8 in a thread in the Archtypes forums about pick your dream team for Hardmode content.  Interestingly it uses neither ElecAff nor NAff (or Traps 🤪).  I think this speaks to both the wondrous versatility of the ATs in CoX and the differences between a select static team and PuG (even if those folks are in the same SG, familiar with each other etc.).

That team for reference (and because I suck linking anything, like a different thread, on this phone):

 

3 Empathy/** (Sonic, Dark and Fire) 

2 Ill/Dark Affinity Controllers

2 Fire/Kinetics Corruptors 

1 SR/DM Tanker

 

     I'd probably tweak it to Empathy Corruptors for the damage hardcap everyone will be enjoying.  Tanker could likely be one of several as well. 

 

     Which begs the question of what would a team of selected T3 sets look like and function by comparison to that of top tier.?

Yeah it is a strength, and I would mix and match sets according to everything from the tank/brute and their sets 

 

My 4* ITF Dream Team would be rather different than the one you mentioned.  I might go with something like...

 

2 offensive Brutes/Tanks such as: Rad/Fire, Bio/SS, Fire/EM, etc

2 Blasters: Fire and Psi/Ninja

4 Corruptors/Defenders: 2 Cold, 1 Kin, 1 Thermal 

 

Or 1 Tank and 1 Scrapper...

Or maybe try 1 Blaster, 1 Scrapper... 

Or only 1 Tank and another Corr/Def like Nature or Dark. 

 

And run something like at least 4 Barriers and 1 Incan... Then add 1-2 Ageless Radial... Maybe 1 Rebirth or Clarion...

 

 

[FUBARczar]

9 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     In many ways that's kind of my point about the versatility of CoX.  But 3 Empath's is a very strong force as a foundation for a team.  Neither Pain or Thermal is going to put the team at 1600%+ Regeneration (trying killing the Tanker (or Thermal) while their regeneration is +2400% on top of their norms, that's well over Instant Healing levels -> the word hardcap enters the equation) or buff someone with +100% recharge plus .  They do other things Empathy doesn't do ... but in a static team they (the Empaths) don't need to do that either, that can be the focus of other teammates.  But you could build a very potent team around Thermal or Pain as well (Ask any team hit by stacked Melt Armor right?). 

     I believe you're thinking as an individual within the team rather than as the whole of the team, what do I bring to the party not knowing make-up of the team rather than the composition of the whole that will be there each time.  

No not exactly, one problem is that an Empath is mostly a single target healer/buffer and does nothing team wide to reduce incoming DMG. 

 

On the other hand, Pain and Thermal are more proactive team wide adding resists to the team. 

 

Also 2400% Regen doesn't help mitigate being one shotted by a cyst, or a bomb, or by Rom or by quick burst Alphas etc.  The Regen without Resistance  or high defense will fail more than you think.  Also an Emp has no debuffs and cover enough of a team with Perma Fortitude.  

Edited September 8, 2022 by FUBARczar
Clarity

[FUBARczar]

9 hours ago, Voltak said:

I don't know why you said that buffs lasts only 5 seconds.  

How long does energizing circuit last?  Isn't that buff only 5 secs? Personally I wouldn't compare it to Force Feedback, because that's a bonus for attacking while EC is a buff instead of attacking.  It would be interesting to do a duo Pylon  test with various buffers to see which is the best add for team DPS 

 

I will say that ElecAff is a good team AoE healer (182 HP base). up on top with Pain (nullify pain (117 HP base) +soothing aura (44 HP base)) and Time (Temporal Mending (132 HP base + 4 ticks of 35 HP base along with slow and -Regen resistance)

 

*Base = Unenhanced

Numbers are for Corruptors.

[Doomguide2005]

1 hour ago, FUBARczar said:

No one problem is an Empathy is mostly a single target at time and does nothing team wide to reduce incoming DMG.  Pain and Thermal are more proactive team wide adding resists to the team.  Also 2400% Regen doesn't help mitigate being one shotted by a cyst, or a bomb, or by Rom or by quick burst Alphas etc.  The Regen without Resistance will fail more than you think.  Also an Emp has no debuffs and cover enough of a team with Perma Fortitude.  

     Thing is the Emps are combined a major chunk of the +def provided, resistance is covered by teammates and is actually extremely strong on the order of 70+ before considering any epic shields (vs S/L/E/N) nevermind Incarnate Abilities.  And yes unless they've negated the rule for Hard Mode you cannot be one-shot so a health bar that's constantly slammed to the top is rather nice.  If you are at full health you cannot be outright defeated although I admit I'm not sure about autohit unresistable stuff (but any AT is screwed at that point).  So we have about (warning napkin math) +140 def backed by high DDR, 70% resists, capped regen (2000%) and 7 of the 8 have potent AoE heals available.  Then tack on about +180 To Hit and capped damage, capped recharge on the Emps (Auras on 10 sec cooldowns) plus sorts of damage and to hit debuffs.   And all that is basically prior to epic choices i.e Power Boost/PBU, Armors, Soul Drain and we haven't touched Incarnate Abilities at all either.   Now are there other combos of ATs as tough, more than likely but I doubt there's much if anything tougher and harder to kill than those 8 would be.  If there is I'd love to hear and learn about it.  About the only thing I'd love to wiggle in there is Trick Arrow for its debuff resistance debuff but there's no way I'm seeing.