Replace the single-target blasts in Mastermind ancillary power pools

[Vanden]

The Ice, Fire, and Energy-themed APPs for Masterminds all currently contain a single-target tier 2 blast attack. This is pretty dumb, since Masterminds already get single-target tier 2 blast attacks in the primaries (and they're woeful). In all those APP threads I made, whenever there was a Mastermind pool included, I usually gave the pool a snipe attack instead, since APPs are supposed to include powers that the primary and secondary sets for an AT don't usually get.

 

This got me thinking, what if we just replaced those blasts in the existing pools with snipes? I know they tried replacing rarely-taken APP powers before, and it didn't go over well. However, these changes would basically be a straight upgrade, so I figure it might be worth a try. The specific changes I'm talking about making would be:

 

Field Mastery: Power Blast -> Sniper Blast

Heat Mastery: Fire Blast -> Blazing Bolt

Chill Mastery: Ice Blast -> Freeze Ray (ice doesn't have a snipe power)

 

Replacing Static Discharge in Charge Mastery with Zapp would be fine with me, too, especially since MMs could still get a stronger version of Static Discharge from Mu Mastery, but probably would not be fine with absolutely everyone.

[Greycat]

This, I think, would be one of the few times I'd be up for "Yeah, straight replacement might be a good idea," especially if you're trying to "tankermind" a bit and get a specific enemy (or eliminate that one quickly, or before the minions go haring off after a runner.) The extra range would be useful.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

This, I think, would be one of the few times I'd be up for "Yeah, straight replacement might be a good idea," especially if you're trying to "tankermind" a bit and get a specific enemy (or eliminate that one quickly, or before the minions go haring off after a runner.) The extra range would be useful.

Not really. The fast snipes, which is what you would have if dealing with a runner, don't have any better range than the other attacks. (If they do, I'm going to be upset because none of my snipes retain any long range after combat starts....) Now, if you're looking for an opener to pull that specific enemy you mentioned? Or if the snipe didn't have a fast snipe form so you could pick off the runner? Sure, I can see a practical use for it.

 

It still goes against my "Don't Change Existing Sets" impulse though.

[srmalloy]

7 hours ago, Rudra said:

Or if the snipe didn't have a fast snipe form so you could pick off the runner?

Making the pool power a snipe that does not have the fast snipe option, so that it's always the interruptible long animation, would be a decent way to help balance the power by making it less generally useful while still giving it situational advantages.

[Yaliw]

This makes sense. I don't really care what we replace these attacks with, im just interested in removing that redundency.

[Vanden]

2 hours ago, srmalloy said:

Making the pool power a snipe that does not have the fast snipe option, so that it's always the interruptible long animation, would be a decent way to help balance the power by making it less generally useful while still giving it situational advantages.

 

 But then it isn't a straight upgrade, and you lose that justification to break the cottage rule.

[srmalloy]

It was already established (I'm not in a good position to search the forums for the post) that pool-power copies of powerset abilities have, IIRC, a doubled recharge time. Replacing the single-target attack with a snipe that, instead of having a doubled recharge time, doesn't get the in-combat 'fast snipe', continues the policy of making the pool power a weakened version of the powerset ability while keeping it distinct as a power.

[El D]

8 hours ago, srmalloy said:

It was already established (I'm not in a good position to search the forums for the post) that pool-power copies of powerset abilities have, IIRC, a doubled recharge time. Replacing the single-target attack with a snipe that, instead of having a doubled recharge time, doesn't get the in-combat 'fast snipe', continues the policy of making the pool power a weakened version of the powerset ability while keeping it distinct as a power.

 

Counterpoint - the Scrapper/Stalker Patron snipes already utilize the 'fast snipe' option, as does every player-earned snipe attack in the game, because that was a deliberate design decision to give snipes an actual means of usability in-light of just how fast-paced combat in CoH had gotten over the years. Slow snipes stopped being a thing during Live for a reason, so bringing that back goes against combat design overall, balance or no balance.

 

I say give 'em the fast snipe and if it does need to be adjusted, crank up the recharge a bit. Ancillary/Patron pools are meant to provide things the base AT doesn't get, and a high-damage attack actually worth slotting is something MMs definitely don't have. Frankly a lot of the Ancillary pools always seemed like they needed heavy adjustments/power swaps anyway (inconsistent power options mean that some are much more useful than others), but that's something for another thread.

[Greycat]

On 9/23/2022 at 1:33 AM, Rudra said:

Not really. The fast snipes, which is what you would have if dealing with a runner, don't have any better range than the other attacks. (If they do, I'm going to be upset because none of my snipes retain any long range after combat starts....) Now, if you're looking for an opener to pull that specific enemy you mentioned? Or if the snipe didn't have a fast snipe form so you could pick off the runner? Sure, I can see a practical use for it.

 

It still goes against my "Don't Change Existing Sets" impulse though.

 

Fair. (FWIW, I *hate* fast snipe and wish we had a way to turn it off. We've got an "always fast snipe" IO, I want a "never fast snipe" one.)

13 hours ago, El D said:

 

 Slow snipes stopped being a thing during Live for a reason, so bringing that back goes against combat design overall, balance or no balance.

 

 

<-- still uses standard snipes regularly and *hates* fast snipes and having to wait for them to get out of "fast" mode. I picked a snipe for *range* and *damage.* If I want something I can use during combat, I've got at *least* the rest of an entire powerset for that.

[El D]

15 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

Fair. (FWIW, I *hate* fast snipe and wish we had a way to turn it off. We've got an "always fast snipe" IO, I want a "never fast snipe" one.)

 

<-- still uses standard snipes regularly and *hates* fast snipes and having to wait for them to get out of "fast" mode. I picked a snipe for *range* and *damage.* If I want something I can use during combat, I've got at *least* the rest of an entire powerset for that.

 

Ya know, that's fair enough - an option to disable/dismiss the effect would be pretty reasonable to implement for folks who prefer not to use the 'fast' effect (maybe a toggle from the Options window?). One of those rare 'this'll improve things for some folks but not negatively impact anyone' additions because if someone likes fast snipes, they can just keep going as is.

Edited September 24, 2022 by El D

[Yaliw]

Instead of a snipe, can masterminds have a taunt aura? That way tankerminds have an easier time holding aoe aggro?

 

Also they look cool