biostem Posted October 14, 2022 Posted October 14, 2022 1 hour ago, battlewraith said: I didn't say throw out the rules. I actually said that people should be concerned with gameplay, balance, etc. Any yes, unfortunately we are working with a narrow set of well established game dynamics. But that is all the more reason why, on an ideation level-when dealing with things like themes--we should not be just looking at existing powersets and working within that framework. We shouldn't be happy to get the same repackaged garbage over and over again. Especially on a suggestions forum. It shouldn't be the part of posters here to make things predictable and mundane in advance. And I notice you put fun in quotes. This is a game, not a job. It's supposed to be fun. If someone communicates a clear idea of fun, maybe at this stage that's more important than killing it because of what some posters expect or are used to. You must have missed the part where I said: 1 hour ago, biostem said: You want to propose a new blast set that is more "controllerish" or has some new effects, go right ahead.
agentx5 Posted October 14, 2022 Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) On 10/9/2022 at 10:46 PM, KingCeddd03 said: This powerset has been needed in the game i took to make a set what you think? Arcane Blast - Mystic Ball: A light damage/quick recharge blast power that deals energy damage. Uses the 'Translocation' animation with the 'Corruption' projectile FX. - Arcane Lighting: A moderate damage blast power that deals energy damage. Uses the lightning bolt FX & 'Arcane Bolt' animation and FX. - Mystic Force: A simple Cone Energy High Damage blast. Uses the Telekinetic Blast animation, with the FX and added FX effect. - Enchant: A power much like 'Ammo Swap', giving the 'Spirit Enchantment' (Dark), 'Demonic Enchantment' (Fire) and 'Eldritch Enchantment' (Psionic) powers. Like ammo swap, these powers add a secondary damage effect. Uses the 'Translocation' animation again with a hand rune FX like the costume aura. - Arcane Font: A Target AoE power that deals energy DoT. Uses a sped-up version of the 'Summon Demon' animation but without (without the lava/stone) FX . when placed it will use the deadly apocalypse spell circle just slightly smaller - Mystic Seal: A ranged DoT hold power with moderate energy damage. Uses the 'Enflame' animation, but traps them with the 'Translocate' FX. - Reality Distortion: A short range blast that does High damage. Uses the 'Irradiate’ animation and FX. - Arcane Lancent: A blast with the Thunderous Blast fx with the overcharge blast FX, superior AoE energy damage. - Mystic Maelstorm: A PBAoE power with deals extreme energy. Uses the 'Gale animation and FX, but with the nova' FX as the explosion. Oh!!! This suggestion topic has potential! And I already have in mind one of my characters from my Xzianthian lore that would fit this perfectly:The Enchantress, Sarah O'Shea I considered making her a Symphony controller when the announced that powerset in Page4 Beta. But the rubbing rubber balloons sound effect and the "music note" spell effects from Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness just aren't... yeah it just doesn't fit. I don't care about the names or icons any power; but the appearance, the animations, and the power's effect(s) have to fit for the character I have in mind. Currently she's a corruptor AT with Kinetics, colored in a mix of green and sea-green that makes it look more "enchantment spell like" Edited October 14, 2022 by agentx5
battlewraith Posted October 14, 2022 Posted October 14, 2022 1 hour ago, biostem said: You must have missed the part where I said: I didn't miss it. I just wouldn't bother. I'm surprised that many people do under the circumstances. 1
biostem Posted October 14, 2022 Posted October 14, 2022 7 minutes ago, agentx5 said: "enchantment spell like" Here's where the problems arise - what the above means to you does not necessarily mesh with what it may mean to the OP or other people. You need to articulate your ideas in a way that someone unfamiliar with your internal vision can understand. Do you want floating runes? Do you want concentric rings? Lots of horizontal/vertical lines? A rippling, wave-like appearance? Tell us something that gets your point across. You post a headshot of one of your characters, but not any of the powers you're looking for...
agentx5 Posted October 14, 2022 Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) I don't know why you are confused @KingCeddd03, I'm just saying I have character in mind that'd probably fit such a powerset pretty well. 21 minutes ago, biostem said: Here's where the problems arise - what the above means to you does not necessarily mesh with what it may mean to the OP or other people. You need to articulate your ideas in a way that someone unfamiliar with your internal vision can understand. Do you want floating runes? Do you want concentric rings? Lots of horizontal/vertical lines? A rippling, wave-like appearance? Tell us something that gets your point across. You post a headshot of one of your characters, but not any of the powers you're looking for... Perhaps some language-driven magic, verbal and written. Property modifying enchantment stuff. I happen to like the way Kinetics effects look and sound, but maybe something like a cross between that and the Sorcery Pool where it's got some stuff similar to the Rune of Purification temp power going on? Why? What did you have in mind? Edited October 14, 2022 by agentx5 1
Puma Posted October 14, 2022 Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, Rudra said: Necromancy is the raising of the dead. Generally understood to be magic, but not limited to it. Raising the dead has been cast as a virus, as technological implants, and even as mutation. Devices have always been a blanket tool for everyone regardless of what they are. Be the user a mutant (a la Cable), a natural (a la pick your favorite movie/TV show), science (a la pick your favorite movie/TV show), or technology (pick your favorite movie/TV show). Same thing for pick your choice of weapon. Demon summoning is the summoning and binding of demons. Like with necromancy, it is generally understood to be magic, but it is not limited to it. You can build combat drones that look like demons (tech), make them in a lab (science), have a deal with demons that agree to aid you (for a price later) (natural), or manifest them from your psyche (mutation), as well as summon and bind them (magic). The summoning animation? Is simply how they arrive. Mystic and arcane are magic. The whole purpose of the proposed power set is specifically magic. Also? Wanda Maximoff's mutant ability is energy manipulation. She was taught to use it as if it was sorcery because she had no control over it as a child. Robotics is the creation of Robots: technological humanoid machines. It's clearly a technologically originating powerset. Now, can a player make a "magic" origin Robotics mastermind? Sure! Get creative. Just like Martial Arts and Dual Pistols are natural and tech origins but you could still add secondaries, etc that make them another origin. And using your own logic, someone could say their character's "magical blast" is the use of mystic energy as an attack. Generally understood to be pure true magic, but not limited to it. It could be technology that allows you to focus and unleash mystic energy, or even a mutation that allows you access it without the use of spells or training. And yes...Scarlet witch is a mutant with a natural hex power access. She was then not only taught to ACTUAL sorcery and magic, because of her mutant ability to access it naturally, but we learn she was actually altered at birth by the Demon Chthon to become the Scarlet Witch due to her natural mutant ability to tap into the power. So she's a mutant, who happens to be able to become incredibly powerful as a magical wielder due to her mutation and the interference of other magical beings. So if the title of this were instead "mystic blast" you'd be in EXACTLY the same situation as you are with Robotics, Devices, Martial Arts, Assault Rifle, Dual Pistols, or street fighting, etc. You have primary AND secondary powersets, and so having any of the above does not "lock you into" any one specific origin. You could have a psionic mutant who uses their psychic ability to be a kick ass street fighter. You could have a bionic technology user who has built in dual pistols and a targeting system, or you could have a natural old human who has found access to a mysterious, hidden stash of devices including a crystal which allows him to unleash mystic waves of energy. So at most, I'd say the OP can keep the set just as it is, change the name to "mystical blast" and then all the criticism fades away. That's what I did with the mystic empowerment buff set I made for defenders/controllers/corruptors. Edited October 14, 2022 by Puma
Sneakers Posted October 14, 2022 Posted October 14, 2022 21 hours ago, Rudra said: Flaws in your argument: In games and stories with arcane magic, it is still resisted. Particularly video games. Then it can't harm or otherwise affect anything either. Except in every book, game, movie, and show. Magic provides the means for the effect's physical form. No. The only time "arcane damage" is separate from the fire damage of a fireball or the electric damage of a lightning bolt or the negative damage of a curse bolt is when it is not formed specifically into those effects. In which case it does energy damage. That is not true in any reference out there. Magic can do more damage than other sources, but only when sufficient power is poured into it. And if you poured that same power into other sources? They do as much damage. In fact, technological weapons are known to match or exceed magic attacks in a significant number of stories and games. Edit: Actually, that's even a trope for stories with magic and technology. The fall of magic and the rise of technology. Because even a simple black powder weapon could be made, given to a random person, and then instructed in its use extremely quickly to achieve the same "kill the other guy" effect as magic without the years of study and innate ability to use magic that magic requires. Funny I got this far into someone else's suggestion... I'm glad you finally found the time to go through my post line by line. Magic is magic. The things magic produces are not magic but things. In my opinion arcane damage is magic. Does that make any sense to you ? If a magician uses magic to turn a stone into a pearl, there was no physical thing tied to the magic. The magic did its job regardless of the stone or the pearl. And the magic was not in the stone nor the pearl it was the magic only and nothing else. Does that make sense to you ? Arcane damage is the raw form of magic not formed into a fireball or a lightning bolt or a physical form. Arcane damage is arcane damage or magic damage. It is not energy damage. I only suggested energy damage because someone else suggested there isn't the push to add entirely new damage types. I think people are confusing the origin thing also. You can be any origin because the origin is simply how you stumbled upon your powers or what changed you into having powers. The powers themselves can be separate from the origin. 1
Rudra Posted October 15, 2022 Posted October 15, 2022 (edited) Straight from the game: Science: You earned your powers through the benefits of modern science, either through experimentation or by accident. Mutation: Your powers are derived from genetic manipulation or evolutionary alteration. Magic: Your powers are tied to mystical or divine forces that you control. Technology: The source of your powers is the technological gadgets and devices you wield. Natural: Your powers are simply natural talents that you have honed and developed to super-human levels. So no, I am not confusing what an origin is. A Magic Blast power set is by definition, as provided in the game itself, a magic origin set. Edit: Also, I am not going to argue your opinion on magic. Everything I stated about magic is not my opinion, but is a recitation of how magic is portrayed in multiple sources. You can have your opinion. Your opinion is that magic is God Mode and unstoppable. Got it. I prefer to use the vast array of literature, games, and shows/movies as a reference. Edited October 15, 2022 by Rudra
Sneakers Posted October 15, 2022 Posted October 15, 2022 14 minutes ago, Rudra said: Straight from the game: Science: You earned your powers through the benefits of modern science, either through experimentation or by accident. Mutation: Your powers are derived from genetic manipulation or evolutionary alteration. Magic: Your powers are tied to mystical or divine forces that you control. Technology: The source of your powers is the technological gadgets and devices you wield. Natural: Your powers are simply natural talents that you have honed and developed to super-human levels. So no, I am not confusing what an origin is. A Magic Blast power set is by definition, as provided in the game itself, a magic origin set. Edit: Also, I am not going to argue your opinion on magic. Everything I stated about magic is not my opinion, but is a recitation of how magic is portrayed in multiple sources. You can have your opinion. Your opinion is that magic is God Mode and unstoppable. Got it. I prefer to use the vast array of literature, games, and shows/movies as a reference. Yea take science for example you earned your powers through the benefits of science. So what ? the power is not the origin. The power was something gained from the origin. You could be a natural scholar who studied magic. Once you obtained the magic you could use magic. You could of been imbune with magic origin then you could use magic. The origin didn't make a difference. 1
KingCeddd03 Posted October 15, 2022 Author Posted October 15, 2022 4 hours ago, Rudra said: Straight from the game: Science: You earned your powers through the benefits of modern science, either through experimentation or by accident. Mutation: Your powers are derived from genetic manipulation or evolutionary alteration. Magic: Your powers are tied to mystical or divine forces that you control. Technology: The source of your powers is the technological gadgets and devices you wield. Natural: Your powers are simply natural talents that you have honed and developed to super-human levels. So no, I am not confusing what an origin is. A Magic Blast power set is by definition, as provided in the game itself, a magic origin set. Edit: Also, I am not going to argue your opinion on magic. Everything I stated about magic is not my opinion, but is a recitation of how magic is portrayed in multiple sources. You can have your opinion. Your opinion is that magic is God Mode and unstoppable. Got it. I prefer to use the vast array of literature, games, and shows/movies as a reference. through derived tied natural talents the only origin that is actually made of the origin is technology the others are channeled through they are not actually the power itself so just to clarify magic is the origin and arcane is the power and yes arcane powers are generic and can be used on all origins and can be explained on how you obtained the power.
KingCeddd03 Posted October 15, 2022 Author Posted October 15, 2022 On 10/9/2022 at 9:49 PM, Rudra said: Magic attacks are covered by the magic origin in use with any power set in the game. Rune combat auras if you prefer a more mystic appearance. the power and origin are two different things so no it is not covered by that
Rudra Posted October 15, 2022 Posted October 15, 2022 23 hours ago, Sneakers said: You could be a natural scholar who studied magic. Once you obtained the magic you could use magic. You could of been imbune with magic origin then you could use magic. The origin didn't make a difference. The thing I find funny here is the declaration of a natural character imbued with the magic origin to use magic, so the origin doesn't matter. Except, you are assigning the magic origin to the character when you imbue it with magic origin. Hello, magic origin character. On 10/14/2022 at 4:12 AM, Puma said: Robotics is the creation of Robots: technological humanoid machines. No, it's not. Robotics is the use of robots, in the game's case, that are loyal to you and no other. (Until affected by a confuse power.) Typically considered to be technology, but not only set as technology. I can point out iron golems and enhanced golems from traditional fantasy as magic robots. I can point out the robot servitors of technomantic literature and gaming that are far more relevant given the appearance of the robots. I can point out mutant-controlled robots like Magneto did with the Sentinels sent to kill him. He made them his and then sent them back to kill their creators and defend mutants with his mutant powers. Or the fact that again, natural characters also use gadgets and devices, including robots from time to time. Science characters override robots and get them to serve them. The character doesn't even have to be the robots' creator, just the user/commander. (Another common trope in comics. The weapons, devices, and yes, even robots, are made by someone else. The character just uses them.) On the other hand, channeling magic energy is defined by the game as a magic origin ability. That is the only problem I have with the proposed power set. That it is specifically a magic power set. As required to be by the author. There is no question as to the intent or use.
battlewraith Posted October 16, 2022 Posted October 16, 2022 3 hours ago, Rudra said: No, it's not. Robotics is the use of robots, in the game's case, that are loyal to you and no other. Wrong. Like really wackadoo wrong. Me telling Alexa to do something is not robotics. Golems are not robots and probably fall under alchemy or something in terms of the process that created them. Magneto hacking a sentinel is robotics in the same way that me typing this response on my computer is an example of computer engineering. And none of this inane dithering improves the proposal in any way, bears any relationship to how fun the set would be to play, or is even relevant in a game where somre characters can throw spirit sharks.
Blood Speaker Posted October 16, 2022 Posted October 16, 2022 This seems pretty superfluous to me, when getting alternate visual effects for one or more blast sets would accomplish the task. Adding a new damage "type" to the game is orders of magnitude more work than that. Beyond just adding the damage type, there's the need to go back through EVERY enemy group in the game and establish what vulnerabilities or defenses they may have to it. I'm not even remotely opposed to the concept, but execution is almost certainly a non-starter.
KingCeddd03 Posted October 16, 2022 Author Posted October 16, 2022 Look, I just proposed to make a new powerset with what we have, add new visuals and add effects. it can have energy and psionic damage or just energy damage. this should be its own power and not used for alt animations, just to let you know this power can't be confused with energy blast in which it is just that blast, no i can just rename the set arcane mastery than blast and you can call energy blast arcane blast through alt animations recoloring and explanation, hope this clarifies things 2
Blood Speaker Posted October 16, 2022 Posted October 16, 2022 (edited) Gotcha; I was misconstruing the overall intent. Still, this leaves me with mainly wishing for new "magic" alternate effects for most non-weapon blast sets, now, casting rune-ish fire, energy, etc at enemies. 😛 Edited October 16, 2022 by Blood Speaker 1
Alchemystic Posted October 16, 2022 Posted October 16, 2022 On 10/10/2022 at 3:46 AM, KingCeddd03 said: This powerset has been needed in the game i took to make a set what you think? Arcane Blast - Mystic Ball: A light damage/quick recharge blast power that deals energy damage. Uses the 'Translocation' animation with the 'Corruption' projectile FX. - Arcane Lighting: A moderate damage blast power that deals energy damage. Uses the lightning bolt FX & 'Arcane Bolt' animation and FX. - Mystic Force: A simple Cone Energy High Damage blast. Uses the Telekinetic Blast animation, with the FX and added FX effect. - Enchant: A power much like 'Ammo Swap', giving the 'Spirit Enchantment' (Dark), 'Demonic Enchantment' (Fire) and 'Eldritch Enchantment' (Psionic) powers. Like ammo swap, these powers add a secondary damage effect. Uses the 'Translocation' animation again with a hand rune FX like the costume aura. - Arcane Font: A Target AoE power that deals energy DoT. Uses a sped-up version of the 'Summon Demon' animation but without (without the lava/stone) FX . when placed it will use the deadly apocalypse spell circle just slightly smaller - Mystic Seal: A ranged DoT hold power with moderate energy damage. Uses the 'Enflame' animation, but traps them with the 'Translocate' FX. - Reality Distortion: A short range blast that does High damage. Uses the 'Irradiate’ animation and FX. - Arcane Lancent: A blast with the Thunderous Blast fx with the overcharge blast FX, superior AoE energy damage. - Mystic Maelstorm: A PBAoE power with deals extreme energy. Uses the 'Gale animation and FX, but with the nova' FX as the explosion. This is literally just a 1-to-1 copy/paste of my suggestion in the Eco-Friendly Powerset Recycling thread? 2
srmalloy Posted October 16, 2022 Posted October 16, 2022 16 hours ago, Rudra said: I can point out mutant-controlled robots like Magneto did with the Sentinels sent to kill him. He made them his and then sent them back to kill their creators and defend mutants with his mutant powers. Or, an in-game example, the fact that all the Clockwork are psionically-controlled and -animated extensions of the Clockwork King. 2
Night Posted October 16, 2022 Posted October 16, 2022 On 10/10/2022 at 4:46 AM, KingCeddd03 said: Straight from the wildly popular powers recycling thread 1
KingCeddd03 Posted October 16, 2022 Author Posted October 16, 2022 4 hours ago, Night said: "Look, I just stole someone's suggestion and pushed it as my own idea, power icons and all." i just use the format. the names and how the powers are used are different 2
Alchemystic Posted October 16, 2022 Posted October 16, 2022 1 minute ago, KingCeddd03 said: i just use the format. the names and how the powers are used are different No? you literally took whole chunks of my post without permission and tried to pass it off as a new suggestion? 2
KingCeddd03 Posted October 16, 2022 Author Posted October 16, 2022 Just now, Tyrannical said: No? you literally took whole chunks of my post without permission and tried to pass it off as a new suggestion? are power names and uses are different not the same so you can call it the same 1
Night Posted October 16, 2022 Posted October 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, KingCeddd03 said: i just use the format. the names and how the powers are used are different You literally copy-pasted everything, the names, the descriptions, power icons 1
KingCeddd03 Posted October 16, 2022 Author Posted October 16, 2022 @Tyrannical do apology for taking the name arcane blast i have changed it to my own arcane mastery so they will named different 2
Alchemystic Posted October 16, 2022 Posted October 16, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, KingCeddd03 said: @Tyrannical do apology for taking the name arcane blast i have changed it to my own arcane mastery so they will named different Naming it something else doesn't mean the rest of the material isn't plagiarized. Edited October 16, 2022 by Tyrannical 1
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