I think it is time to get rid of Reward Merits and PAPs

[kelika2]

And start using INF for everything.  Those two items are driving a wedge in the player base.

No one wants to plow through task forces anymore because there is no reason to, and there is no penalty for just grabbing the carrot on the stick and switching alts to do it again.

No one wants to leave AE because it is the best form of getting exp.

 

So, just like with seeding the market, there is an artificial cap on the price of some things.  Rework how Merit Vendors work and allow players to buy recipes and enhancements for INF.  Same thing with the costumes.

 

Now, incase you didnt slam down your pringles can of redbull and start heaving at this point I suggest the following changes:

 

Lower AE INF gain down to 10-25% of regular

 

Increase INF gain in the following:

Task forces, lots of variants here.  ITF might be the king of INF farming, might not, who knows this wont get past the idea stage

Story arcs, even the old devs complained about wanting players to do story arcs

Minor boost to Paper/Radio and big boost to Mayhem and Safeguard missions, actually now that i typed this one out people will speed papers/radios to get to mayhems/safeguards

shipraids, itrials, the list can go on but i got bored typing

[Rudra]

15 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Lower AE INF gain down to 10-25% of regular

This was done previously. Or the xp gain was. Maybe both? Regardless, it resulted in players being upset that AE was available and they were making story arcs, but noone was playing them because there was no reward incentive. So it was equalized to dev story content.

 

Of course, it looks like AE is only used for farming, so that may no longer be relevant. However, I still hold out hope that players may actually try my AE content and hopefully enjoy it. And taking away inf' gains by implementing a 75-90% reduction guarantees my AE content will never see player use.

 

Same thing with also increasing the inf' gains on SF/TFs, trials, Mayhems/Safeguards, and dev story arcs.

 

So you are in effect asking for AE to wither and die except for any hardcore player content fan players out there. I get that is not your intent, but that is the gist of the request when you get down to player involvement in content.

 

Edit: As for getting rid of Reward merits and PAPs? I oppose that because it is easier for my characters to get 100 Reward Merits as they level than it is for them to get 8,000,000-10,000,000 inf' for an ATO. And getting the Reward merits for doing arcs as they level is better to me than farming end game content for the inf' I need to equip my lowbies.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Rudra

[El D]

Reward Merits and PAPs were instituted for the same reason that every other previous 'new currency' was put into the game - precisely so they wouldn't utilize influence for everything. All that'd do is allow the players with Scrooge McDuck-esque pits of inf to instantly get all the new shinies the moment they go Live and then have nothing to actually play the game for. Which in-turn leaves the other players - long-term ones who don't have massive hordes of savings and new players just starting out - in the lurch because a hefty portion of the playerbase isn't running the new content at all. At that point there'd be no reason in making new content actually playable, or anything beyond 'Click this button to subtract X influence and get Y!'

 

Divided currencies mean everyone starts at the same starting line for the new stuff, which means everyone has to run content to get it. Players continually playing content is what keeps them around and keeps the game going.

Edited October 27, 2022 by El D

[Glacier Peak]

Can't you just choose not to earn them and let everyone else play how they want instead of wanting to change the entire game to meet your own desires?

[kelika2]

22 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Can't you just choose not to earn them and let everyone else play how they want instead of wanting to change the entire game to meet your own desires?

when 99% of the players want to skip the game its time to take a step back and question what we are really doing

 

Strikeout because it missed the point hard

Edited October 27, 2022 by kelika2

[Luminara]

58 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

And start using INF for everything.

 

We did that on the original servers.  It resulted in a hyper-inflated economy, a massive division between haves and have-nots, and RMT traders spamming every channel.

 

Not looking to repeat that experience, thanks.

[Rudra]

Don't take this the wrong way, but if 99% of the players want to skip the game, then why are they playing? Since they are playing, I'm willing to bet they don't want to skip the game. There are parts of the game players want to skip, which parts depends on the player, but not skip the game.

 

I'm also willing to bet the 99% is hyperbole. And players wanting to skip the game has nothing to do with Reward Merits and PAPs.

[kelika2]

25 minutes ago, El D said:

Reward Merits and PAPs were instituted for the same reason that every other previous 'new currency' was put into the game - precisely so they wouldn't utilize influence for everything

26 minutes ago, El D said:

All that'd do is allow the players with Scrooge McDuck-esque

Every MMO has flippers and resellers.  Its happening RIGHT NOW for hamis and other stuff we cant get with merits, cant be helped.  But this is also counter acted by the seeding of salvage most of the time, which the vendors will replicate.

 

28 minutes ago, El D said:

long-term ones who don't have massive hordes of savings and new players just starting out

Again, every MMO does this.  From Everquest to whatever amazon just did.  End game players earn more.

 

28 minutes ago, El D said:

Divided currencies mean everyone starts at the same starting line for the new stuff, which means everyone has to run content to get it. Players continually playing content is what keeps them around and keeps the game going.

Dividing currencies divides the game.  I think you have forgotten how fast it is level up.  even if you ran reward merit only content you would be 50 before getting 1200 merits (two ato sets).  I might even stretch the fact that if someone did a debt only challenge run what I said would still be true

[kelika2]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Don't take this the wrong way, but if 99% of the players want to skip the game, then why are they playing? Since they are playing

You contradicted yourself.

[kelika2]

3 minutes ago, Luminara said:

We did that on the original servers.  It resulted in a hyper-inflated economy, a massive division between haves and have-nots, and RMT traders spamming every channel.

 

Not looking to repeat that experience, thanks.

That is incorrect, if the current vendors took INF that inf would just go away out of the economy.  Sure I remember the days of a level 10 res/+def all going for 2b+ on freedom.  but that was a long time ago.  even after adding merit vendors the prices went down, but the inf remained.

[battlewraith]

59 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Here's my solution: Make it worthwhile to use Reward Merits to buy Enhancements by lowering the merit cost of said Enhancements. Looking at ATOs here, but also Winter Enhancements to an extent. 

 

Yeah the merit cost of enhancements is ridiculous. Lower the cost of buying them with merits or further increase the rewards you get for running content. Ideally, a player should be able enhance a new character without buying anything from the market. Using the market should not be a mandatory aspect of this game for someone who wants run at what would be considered a typical level of achievement (ie, having enough to alt, have decent builds, etc.). 

 

Then we can maybe dispense with the endless horror stories of inflation on live and the use of the market as the game's schizophrenic moral compass: Farming is bad because it leads to inflation. Can't skip the farming because it leads to inflation. Yada yada.

[Rudra]

13 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

You contradicted yourself.

I fail to see how I contradicted myself. I posed a question: If 99% of the players want to skip the game, then why are they playing? Then I went into my statement: Since they are playing, I'm willing to bet they don't want to skip the game. That is a questioning of your statement followed by a refutal of your statement. So what is the contradiction?

 

Acknowledging that there are parts of the game that some may wish to avoid, depending on that player's preferences, is not the same thing as saying those players want to skip the game. That is like saying 99% of the people that go to the state fair want to skip the state fair when they simply wish to not partake of one or more elements. They are still going to the state fair, so they obviously don't want to skip it, so the statement is either false, misleading, or hyperbole. Same with this game. Those players that you say want to skip the game are playing the game. Hence, they don't want to skip the game. They just don't want to deal with specific elements of it.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to remove unnecessary words "and" and "the".

[Number Six]

In case anyone asking for the merit costs of recipes to be lowered forgot, I'll just leave this right here.

 

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Merit_Rewards#Rewards_Purchases

[espectro]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

I fail to see how I contradicted myself. I posed a question: If 99% of the players want to skip the game, then why are they playing? Then I went into my statement: Since they are playing, I'm willing to bet they don't want to skip the game. That is a questioning of your statement followed by a refutal of your statement. So what is the contradiction?

 

Acknowledging that there are parts of the game that some may wish to avoid, depending on that player's preferences, is not the same thing as saying those players want to skip the game. That is like saying 99% of the people that go to the state fair want to skip the state fair when they simply wish to not partake of one or more elements. They are still going to the state fair, so they obviously don't want to skip it, so the statement is either false, misleading, or hyperbole. Same with this game. Those players that you say want to skip the game are playing the game. Hence, they don't want to skip the game. They just don't want to deal with specific elements of it.

maybe they are adicts. wanna stop but they cant. LIKE YOOO WITH THIS POST HA HA.

keep going son you missed a lot of words beside and and the.

[Luminara]

2 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

That is incorrect, if the current vendors took INF that inf would just go away out of the economy.  Sure I remember the days of a level 10 res/+def all going for 2b+ on freedom.  but that was a long time ago.  even after adding merit vendors the prices went down, but the inf remained.

 

Merits didn't redress the economic imbalance on the original servers because they were implemented in a way which restricted availability, introduced far too late to change the direction of the economy, and merit prices were factored around expected inf* gain and set to an equivalent rate, resulting in the same time spent collecting merits to pay for something as one would grind inf* to pay for the same thing.

 

In other words, Paragon royally fucked it up in every conceivable way.

 

HC unfucked it.  And it's fine the way it is now.

[kelika2]

4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I fail to see how I contradicted myself. I posed a question: If 99% of the players want to skip the game, then why are they playing?

Because there is no reason to kill through or anything else.  Which is why the thread.  I want to be able to play market crash without 7 other people going off to do their own things.  I want to get into the last mission of yin and not see an ATT popup after loading.  I want to actually play the game without forcing or kicking people.

 

6 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Acknowledging that there are parts a vast majority of the game that some may wish to avoid, depending on that player's preferences

If you still fail to understand after the editing then i dont know what to tell you.  if people want to skip everything what are they getting merits for?  to skip other things?

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, espectro said:

maybe they are adicts. wanna stop but they cant. LIKE YOOO WITH THIS POST HA HA.

keep going son you missed a lot of words beside and and the.

What else did I miss? If you can help me improve my grammar, that would be appreciated.

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Because there is no reason to kill through or anything else.  Which is why the thread.  I want to be able to play market crash without 7 other people going off to do their own things.  I want to get into the last mission of yin and not see an ATT popup after loading.  I want to actually play the game without forcing or kicking people.

 

If you still fail to understand after the editing then i dont know what to tell you.  if people want to skip everything what are they getting merits for?  to skip other things?

That is your perception of players in this game. I see as many posts about people wanting to play low and mid game content as I see people wanting to skip it. So your statement is again either false, misleading, or hyperbole.

 

Edit: Also, what does  wanting to play Market Crash without 7 other people going off to do their own thing have to do with getting rid of or retaining Reward Merits and PAPs?

Edited October 27, 2022 by Rudra

[kelika2]

1 minute ago, Luminara said:

 

Merits didn't redress the economic imbalance on the original servers because they were implemented in a way which restricted availability

So instead of having vendors take INF for items to help with the economy, you thought it was HELPING the inf issue back then by making another currency?  The INF was still there going into other things or sitting around.  Merits made it worse by existing when vendors should have been taking INF

[kelika2]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

That is your perception of players in this game. I see as many posts about people wanting to play low and mid game content as I see people wanting to skip it. So your statement is again either false, misleading, or hyperbole.

Maybe you are on another server, maybe you dont play as much as I do.  an extreme amount of people want to skip the game

[espectro]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

What else did I miss? If you can help me improve my grammar, that would be appreciated.

trolling me. you clearly don't appreciate it.

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, kelika2 said:

Maybe you are on another server, maybe you dont play as much as I do.  an extreme amount of people want to skip the game

Define "extreme amount". I'm disinclined to argue over subjectives. What you may consider to be an extreme number I may consider to be normal. Please provide actual from the game data if you can. Would be helpful.

[kelika2]

13 minutes ago, Number Six said:

In case anyone asking for the merit costs of recipes to be lowered forgot, I'll just leave this right here.

 

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Merit_Rewards#Rewards_Purchases

This is horrifying.

But, speeding Yin for 20% of a special enhancement or 40% of a recipe when you need 64 enhancements (i think) is still just as bad, not counting WST bonus

---

I do like however there is an INF component in the older form

Edited October 27, 2022 by kelika2
---

[kelika2]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Define "extreme amount". I'm disinclined to argue over subjectives. What you may consider to be an extreme number I may consider to be normal. Please provide actual from the game data if you can. Would be helpful.

Because if I gave you a 90% number you would still not believe it and use more buzzwords until I stop replying.

Do you wanna drag this out or wanna SKIP a few steps?

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, kelika2 said:

Because if I gave you a 90% number you would still not believe it and use more buzzwords until I stop replying.

Do you wanna drag this out or wanna SKIP a few steps?

So from 99% to 90% now. All I am asking for, is where you are getting these numbers from. Aside from your perception of the state of things.