Indiana Jones and the... Dial Of Destiny?

[BrandX]

6 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

No, they shouldn't have.  Nor should this or the last Indiana Jones film ever been made.  All of these studios trying to resurrect properties and stars older than dirt to milk as much as possible out of them is what's getting old.  I wonder how many mega flops it will take before these movie studios start creating new stuff again?

 

Personally I would've recast Indiana.  More adventures of young Indiana.

However, I never would've changed the history of Indiana from how he becomes in The Young Indiana Jones Adventures series.

[Voltor]

6 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

No, they shouldn't have.  Nor should this or the last Indiana Jones film ever been made.  All of these studios trying to resurrect properties and stars older than dirt to milk as much as possible out of them is what's getting old.  I wonder how many mega flops it will take before these movie studios start creating new stuff again?

 

Passing the fedora to his own son or daughter would be better then bringing Harrison back. 

[BrandX]

13 hours ago, Voltor said:

 

Passing the fedora to his own son or daughter would be better then bringing Harrison back. 

 

Exactly!  And when he had the eye patch in the series, he had a daughter!

When #4 came out, I thought "Yay!  Marion and him had another kid and it was a girl!"

Now either one could've taken his place!  

[Techwright]

On 12/26/2023 at 1:17 AM, Glacier Peak said:

Finally got around to watching this a year later. I thought it was true to the series. Classic villains, chases, and mcguffin.

 

Just finished watching it for the first time, and I agree with your assessment.  Oh, I could be nitpicky: the big motorized chase was probably far too long, a certain kid just happened to be eating ice cream right in the perfect spot for trouble, etc., but the problems reported to me before seeing it never really seemed to fully add up. 

 

Mutt's story actually felt real.  My own uncle nearly shared it, twice, and close friends of our family went through it, much like the Jones. 

 

On 8/1/2023 at 5:53 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Gripes: Phoebe WB might been over-Mary Sue'd just a touch but still a very rounded and appealing character, and some of the sequences needed a little more editing.

 

Well, okay, just a touch, but she strongly reminded me of Vash from the Star Trek franchise, and Vash long preceded terms like "Mary Sue" and the other charge "woke".  I'm pretty sure I've seen this stereotypical type before in other earlier works, I just am drawing a blank at the moment.    I think, if anything, that would be the charge I laid against the character: stereotype.

 

Effects were good, de-aging effects were really good. Easter eggs and call-outs to the other Indy movies were excellent (I loved the elbow moment), and it was very gratifying to see the old cast back for one more romp.  I do wish they'd brought Short Round in one more time, but I guess we cannot have everything.  Mads was a great villain, and Toby was an awesome addition to the cast.  His performance as one slowly losing his grip was remarkable to watch.  I'm ashamed to say I never recognized Antonio Bandaras.  I only realized it when seeing the credits.

 

Curiously, I found the music good, but, and I hate, hate, hate to say anything even remotely negative about John Williams, it felt a bit like it was walking through it's paces, rather than breaking new ground while reminiscing.  The end credits felt slow, maybe a tad ponderous, but perhaps the Maestro was using the music to imply the age of Indy.  Just guessing.

 

Overall, I enjoyed it.  It's not first or second place, but I might place it slightly higher than Temple of Doom.  Might.  It's a tough call for me.

[Glacier Peak]

2 hours ago, Techwright said:

 

Just finished watching it for the first time, and I agree with your assessment.  Oh, I could be nitpicky: the big motorized chase was probably far too long, a certain kid just happened to be eating ice cream right in the perfect spot for trouble, etc., but the problems reported to me before seeing it never really seemed to fully add up. 

 

Mutt's story actually felt real.  My own uncle nearly shared it, twice, and close friends of our family went through it, much like the Jones. 

 

 

Well, okay, just a touch, but she strongly reminded me of Vash from the Star Trek franchise, and Vash long preceded terms like "Mary Sue" and the other charge "woke".  I'm pretty sure I've seen this stereotypical type before in other earlier works, I just am drawing a blank at the moment.    I think, if anything, that would be the charge I laid against the character: stereotype.

 

Effects were good, de-aging effects were really good. Easter eggs and call-outs to the other Indy movies were excellent (I loved the elbow moment), and it was very gratifying to see the old cast back for one more romp.  I do wish they'd brought Short Round in one more time, but I guess we cannot have everything.  Mads was a great villain, and Toby was an awesome addition to the cast.  His performance as one slowly losing his grip was remarkable to watch.  I'm ashamed to say I never recognized Antonio Bandaras.  I only realized it when seeing the credits.

 

Curiously, I found the music good, but, and I hate, hate, hate to say anything even remotely negative about John Williams, it felt a bit like it was walking through it's paces, rather than breaking new ground while reminiscing.  The end credits felt slow, maybe a tad ponderous, but perhaps the Maestro was using the music to imply the age of Indy.  Just guessing.

 

Overall, I enjoyed it.  It's not first or second place, but I might place it slightly higher than Temple of Doom.  Might.  It's a tough call for me.

I totally thought Antonio Bandaras was there as a cameo, his scenes were so short. It's a shame!

[Ulysses Dare]

Quote

Vash long preceded terms like "Mary Sue"

Uh, no. The term "Mary Sue" originates in a Star Trek fan fiction written in 1974.  It definitely precedes Vash.

[BrandX]

On 1/7/2024 at 5:10 PM, Techwright said:

 

Just finished watching it for the first time, and I agree with your assessment.  Oh, I could be nitpicky: the big motorized chase was probably far too long, a certain kid just happened to be eating ice cream right in the perfect spot for trouble, etc., but the problems reported to me before seeing it never really seemed to fully add up. 

 

Mutt's story actually felt real.  My own uncle nearly shared it, twice, and close friends of our family went through it, much like the Jones. 

 

 

Well, okay, just a touch, but she strongly reminded me of Vash from the Star Trek franchise, and Vash long preceded terms like "Mary Sue" and the other charge "woke".  I'm pretty sure I've seen this stereotypical type before in other earlier works, I just am drawing a blank at the moment.    I think, if anything, that would be the charge I laid against the character: stereotype.

 

Effects were good, de-aging effects were really good. Easter eggs and call-outs to the other Indy movies were excellent (I loved the elbow moment), and it was very gratifying to see the old cast back for one more romp.  I do wish they'd brought Short Round in one more time, but I guess we cannot have everything.  Mads was a great villain, and Toby was an awesome addition to the cast.  His performance as one slowly losing his grip was remarkable to watch.  I'm ashamed to say I never recognized Antonio Bandaras.  I only realized it when seeing the credits.

 

Curiously, I found the music good, but, and I hate, hate, hate to say anything even remotely negative about John Williams, it felt a bit like it was walking through it's paces, rather than breaking new ground while reminiscing.  The end credits felt slow, maybe a tad ponderous, but perhaps the Maestro was using the music to imply the age of Indy.  Just guessing.

 

Overall, I enjoyed it.  It's not first or second place, but I might place it slightly higher than Temple of Doom.  Might.  It's a tough call for me.

 

The problem with any character when people use the words Mary Sue or Woke...is yes, plenty of characters that may have been that or stories that have been that, it's when it's combined with what some may call bad writing or obvious agenda it's an issue.

All that said, like I've said before.  The movie as a movie in the chronicles of Indiana Jones felt fine.  A movie as the last ride of Indiana Jones, it felt bad.  Not that I think he should've died.  I just didn't think the directions they went were good.  Killing Mutt for one.  And after all Indiana has done for the US, you'd think they'd give him some slack 😛

[Techwright]

On 1/14/2024 at 2:35 AM, BrandX said:

All that said, like I've said before.  The movie as a movie in the chronicles of Indiana Jones felt fine.  A movie as the last ride of Indiana Jones, it felt bad.  Not that I think he should've died.  I just didn't think the directions they went were good.  

😛

 

The interesting thing is that the ending still leaves The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles potentially canonical. I suspect Lucas may have had a role in that.  I'd define that better, but I can't seem to find the spoilers box icon on my mobile.

[Glacier Peak]

8 minutes ago, Techwright said:

 

The interesting thing is that the ending still leaves The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles potentially canonical. I suspect Lucas may have had a role in that.  I'd define that better, but I can't seem to find the spoilers box icon on my mobile.

See I watched all of those episodes (each feeling like it's own mini-film!) to ensure I had all of the context for this last one. I think nothing was used from that series - of course I may have missed something. It's a shame! It was great until he gets back from the Great War and it all turns to a CW teen drama. 

[Techwright]

On 1/15/2024 at 11:09 AM, Glacier Peak said:

See I watched all of those episodes (each feeling like it's own mini-film!) to ensure I had all of the context for this last one. I think nothing was used from that series - of course I may have missed something. It's a shame! It was great until he gets back from the Great War and it all turns to a CW teen drama. 

 

Yeah, I need to go back and rewatch The Young Indiana Jones Adventures.  I've not seen anything more than a clipping or two since it premiered.  But what I meant about canonicity, and didn't have the spoiler box due to using my mobile, was...

Spoiler

The TV series was narrated by a 90+ year old Indy, who'd lost the use of one of his eyes.  I was wondering if the last movie would overwrite that, with Indy possibly dying, or being crippled, but it didn't touch it, meaning that the TV series, though never really tapped by the movies, can stand as canonical material.  Between his 80th and 90th years, Indy had one other adventure, at least, that claimed the sight in one eye.

 

[Glacier Peak]

41 minutes ago, Techwright said:

 

Yeah, I need to go back and rewatch The Young Indiana Jones Adventures.  I've not seen anything more than a clipping or two since it premiered.  But what I meant about canonicity, and didn't have the spoiler box due to using my mobile, was...

  Hide contents

The TV series was narrated by a 90+ year old Indy, who'd lost the use of one of his eyes.  I was wondering if the last movie would overwrite that, with Indy possibly dying, or being crippled, but it didn't touch it, meaning that the TV series, though never really tapped by the movies, can stand as canonical material.  Between his 80th and 90th years, Indy had one other adventure, at least, that claimed the sight in one eye.

 

I was surprised to find out that the version on D+ does not contain the narration from old Indy, nor does it give the historical lesson on the theme, famous figure, or place of importance in each episode (that I remember seeing in my youth). Each episode is still considerably long in run time though. There is one episode where Ford's Indy makes a cameo appearance. 

Edited January 17 by Glacier Peak

[Techwright]

16 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

I was surprised to find out that the version on D+ does not contain the narration from old Indy, nor does it give the historical lesson on the theme, famous figure, or place of importance in each episode (that I remember seeing in my youth). Each episode is still considerably long in run time though. There is one episode where Ford's Indy makes a cameo appearance. 

I'd just seen something that mentioned Ford's appearance in the show was supposed to be herald of another Indy project (TV?) that never developed.  Had it been, there was to have been a grandson.  I suspect even that suggested element might be canon.  Mutt could have sired a child, even if there was no movie mention of it. 

[BrandX]

12 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

I was surprised to find out that the version on D+ does not contain the narration from old Indy, nor does it give the historical lesson on the theme, famous figure, or place of importance in each episode (that I remember seeing in my youth). Each episode is still considerably long in run time though. There is one episode where Ford's Indy makes a cameo appearance. 

 

It's them getting rid of Old Indy on why I haven't rewatched it.  And saddened they didn't get Ford to that place.

[Excraft]

On 1/5/2024 at 7:02 PM, BrandX said:

Personally I would've recast Indiana. 

 

That's easier said than done though.   Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones is iconic.  When people think Indiana Jones, they think Harrison Ford.  It's not a simple thing to recast iconic roles like that.

[BrandX]

32 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

That's easier said than done though.   Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones is iconic.  When people think Indiana Jones, they think Harrison Ford.  It's not a simple thing to recast iconic roles like that.

 

When people thought of Superman, they thought of Christopher Reeve.  Plus they had the adventures of Young Indiana Jones.  Which had three actors playing Indiana at different ages, as well as River Phoenix in TLC

 

Good script and a good actor and they'd have been set 🙂

[Excraft]

1 hour ago, BrandX said:

When people thought of Superman, they thought of Christopher Reeve.

 

That's exactly the point.  I'm sure were you to ask most people who was Indiana Jones, they'd say Harrison Ford, not any of the other actors. 

[Techwright]

6 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

When people thought of Superman, they thought of Christopher Reeve.  Plus they had the adventures of Young Indiana Jones.  Which had three actors playing Indiana at different ages, as well as River Phoenix in TLC

 

Good script and a good actor and they'd have been set 🙂

There's also the Joker.  It used to be thought Jack Nicholson, who was nominated for both BAFTA and Golden Globe awards (at a time when comic book movies were not considered really award material) couldn't be topped, then Heath Ledger came along.  It was widely declared no one else would work in the role, especially with an Oscar for his performance, then Joaquin Phoenix matched the Oscar.

 

Replacing an iconic actor can be done, it just has to be done carefully.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

It does help if you reinvent the movie at the same time. Nicholson's Joker and Keaton's Bat were iconic, and irreplaceable, in that particular series of flicks done in that particular style. Val Kilmer and George "Holy Bat-Nipples" Clooney didn't come close, and neither did DeVito, Carrey, Arnie or Uma: only the mighty Michelle Pfeiffer still lives on as THE Cat in our hearts, and in dark lurking corners of our minds.

 

Nolan's Bat and Ledger's Joker are from tonally extremely different movies: they fit there in ways that they couldn't have in the earlier flicks, both from their performances and the way they were structured, so they stand on their own. (Again, Hardy's ridiculous Bane - and much as I love her everywhere else, Hathaway's tame lil' kittycat do not make the Bat-pantheon.)

 

And I don't think anyone thought the trick could be pulled off again, especially with sparkly emo-boi Robert Pattinson. But again, we have a different film - very much a detective film, with a newly fledged and unsure Bat growing across his first real adventure. Backed up by a spiky Kravitz and an almost unrecognisable Colin Farrell, again, there is a new Bat. 

 

And there'll be another in the New DCU. If the story is strong, and it brings something new to the character for the actors to play with, things we've not seen before, yes, we can have new people in those roles. If it's just another sequel, or reboot or retread... you might find yourself wishing they hadn't bothered.