Blue Beetle

[Panache]

On 7/13/2023 at 2:04 PM, UltraAlt said:

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I'm not sure how that isn't a retcon.

 

I'm unsure what a "true" retcon means, but I think I know what it implies.

But I will agree that it isn't actively starting the character from scratch and changing their history.

 

 

rrr... okay. Well. Sounds like a Retcon.

 

 

And this goes to my comment about all superheroes don't need to be able to fly or be uber powerful.

Not only is it basically an armored suit, it is also far more powerful than Iron Man's armor.

 

 

What I'm seeing is closer to Iron Man due to the armor.

But I can understand that angle as well, so more like the Guyver I guess.

 

 

Whoops. I guess I shouldn't have spoiler-ed that, but I can't seem to be able to undo it easily.

 

Retcon: the act, practice or result of changing an existing fictional narrative by introducing new information in a later work that recontextualizes previously established events, characters, etc.

 

Nothing about Jaime Reyes is a retcon of the Ted Kord Blue Beetle. 
Jaime has been around for damn near 20 years. He's also heavily featured in several of DC's animated shows/movies.

 

I don't really have a comment about the emphasis placed on who can or can't fly other than, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Panache

[UltraAlt]

18 hours ago, Panache said:

Nothing about Jaime Reyes is a retcon of the Ted Kord Blue Beetle. 

 

Other than having the same name and both being published by DC Comic, Ted Kord being around first, and Jaime Reyes replacing Ted Kord thanks to a retcon.

 

"Now, Blue and Gold #7 from Dan Jurgens, Phil Hester, Eric Gapstur, Paul Pelletier, and Norm Rapmund features the series debut of Jaime Reyes, the younger Blue Beetle. While a new foe has manipulated Jaime into saving Kord and Gold in secret, it's still a dynamic team-up with the three heroes working together to stop the villain known as Nullifex. However, many of Gold's subscribers are confused in the comments section about why there are two Blue Beetles. While it's all thanks to the New 52 reboot erasing past characters (Kord), bringing in new ones (Jaime), and more recent events bringing past characters back (Kord again), it's odd that the DC Universe has a hang-up with there being more than one Beetle (especially considering certain Bat-Family heroes)." - https://screenrant.com/which-blue-beetle-jaime-reyes-ted-kord/

[UltraAlt]

18 hours ago, Panache said:

I don't really have a comment about the emphasis placed on who can or can't fly other than, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

 

Perhaps the reason I pointed out?

[Panache]

I still don’t think you’re understanding what a retcon is. Jaime Reyes and Ted Kord are two different characters. Who cares that they have the same name. Is Laura/X23 a retconned Logan? No. They’re just both sometimes called Wolverine. Is Kamala Khan a retconned Carol Danvers? Is Wally West a retconned Barry Allen?

 

This is the next sentence of that ScreenRant article:

”Despite sharing the same name, Ted Kord and Jaime Reyes are very different heroes with their own personalities and looks.”

Edited July 21, 2023 by Panache

[UltraAlt]

35 minutes ago, Panache said:

I still don’t think you’re understanding what a retcon is.

 

Why don't you think that the New 52 was a retcon?

Do you think there is a difference between a reboot and a retcon?

 

No. Wally West isn't a retcon of Barry Allen. Wally West was the Kid Flash.

Barry Allen is a retcon of Jay Garrick.

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by UltraAlt

[Panache]

Retcons and reboots ARE different.

Barry Allen is absolutely NOT a retconned Jay Garrick.

 

Retcon example: Zatanna mind wiping a bunch of villains (and eventually Batman)

 

Reboot example: New 52 (a literal brand new start to the entire multiverse)

 

Neither of those things: a brand new character with powers and a superhero alias that are the same as a pre-existing character's (aka, Barry Allen::Jay Garrick)

 

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Panache

[Ashington]

On 7/21/2023 at 3:54 PM, Panache said:

Retcons and reboots ARE different.

Barry Allen is absolutely NOT a retconned Jay Garrick.

 

Retcon example: Zatanna mind wiping a bunch of villains (and eventually Batman)

 

Reboot example: New 52 (a literal brand new start to the entire multiverse)

 

Neither of those things: a brand new character with powers and a superhero alias that are the same as a pre-existing character's (aka, Barry Allen::Jay Garrick)

 

 

 

I liked both the Question (Vic Sage) and Renee Montoya.

But having to kill off the one and give his Costume to the other seemed so unnecessary.

It distorted both characters.

And its often with bought up Characters/Ip. I mean why the need to buy them if ya gonna Retcon them anyway?

I thought you wanted to make money? To get those fans?

[Techwright]

On 7/29/2023 at 7:26 PM, Ashington said:

 

I liked both the Question (Vic Sage) and Renee Montoya.

But having to kill off the one and give his Costume to the other seemed so unnecessary.

It distorted both characters.

And its often with bought up Characters/Ip. I mean why the need to buy them if ya gonna Retcon them anyway?

I thought you wanted to make money? To get those fans?

Specific to those two,  I wasn't thrilled to learn Vic had been terminated.  Why not have two Questions?  Or put another way, why not make the character more questionable to the public by confusing them even more?  One could work days, the other nights, but on occasion together, just never more than one face shown in public. 

[Mr. Vee]

Not to worry, he's back unless they killed him again since I last saw him circa last year. And Renee was still using the identity when she needed to investigate something off book.

[Panache]

On 7/29/2023 at 7:26 PM, Ashington said:

 

I liked both the Question (Vic Sage) and Renee Montoya.

But having to kill off the one and give his Costume to the other seemed so unnecessary.

It distorted both characters.

And its often with bought up Characters/Ip. I mean why the need to buy them if ya gonna Retcon them anyway?

I thought you wanted to make money? To get those fans?

 

A lot of times, retcons exist to update the character so they make more sense to modern audiences. I understand that some 'old school' fans don't like this. I guess I'd ask those same old school fans if they think it makes sense that Peter Parker has aged 20 years since 1963, or if it would make sense in 2023 for Tony Stark to have been a POW in Vietnam.

Also DC comics have been a subsidiary of WB since like, 1967, so I think they're within their rights to do whatever they'd like with characters they've owned for 50 years.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Panache

[Ashington]

1 hour ago, Panache said:

 

A lot of times, retcons exist to update the character to they make more sense to modern audiences. I understand that some 'old school' fans don't like this. I guess I'd ask those same old school fans if they think it makes sense that Peter Parker has aged 20 years since 1963, or if it would make sense in 2023 for Tony Stark to have been a POW in Vietnam.

Also DC comics have been a subsidiary of WB since like, 1967, so I think they're within their rights to do whatever they'd like with characters they've owned for 50 years.

 

 

'nuff said

 

[Panache]

I'm not sure what that's supporting or refuting? "One More Day" was a 'universally' derided storyline that was developed by a bunch of high-level Marvel writers and editors (including Brian Michael Bendis, Mark Millar and Ed Brubaker, who were on absolute heaters at the time), and approved and illustrated by its then Editor-in-Chief (Quesada). So it's not like new ownership came in and changed the character.

 

If the point is "sometimes companies do dumb shit with their IP", well...yeah. 🙂

 

[Ashington]

4 hours ago, Panache said:

I'm not sure what that's supporting or refuting? "One More Day" was a 'universally' derided storyline that was developed by a bunch of high-level Marvel writers and editors (including Brian Michael Bendis, Mark Millar and Ed Brubaker, who were on absolute heaters at the time), and approved and illustrated by its then Editor-in-Chief (Quesada). So it's not like new ownership came in and changed the character.

 

If the point is "sometimes companies do dumb shit with their IP", well...yeah. 🙂

 

 

Ok. how about when Marvel after the Onslaught event tried to reboot some of their ips with works by Rob Liefeld?

 

Or the weird changes DC comics made after the Flashpoint event.

 

Spoiler

Still hate that ''Face off'' Joker design

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Ashington

[Panache]

Lol, what about them? I have no context for these references. Some are retcons, some are reboots, some worked, some didn’t…what are we doing here? 😂

[Coin]

Just got back from seeing this and, as a lifelong DC fan, I loved it. 

 

It's not perfect, but it's bloody good fun, really heartful and pays plenty of homage to DC's past as well.

 

Definitely worth going to see to show DC this is the sort of movie they need to be making.

 

Also, mid and end credit scenes

 

[Panache]

On 7/13/2023 at 12:06 PM, Techwright said:

 

FYI...current Blue Beetle Jaime Reyes is not the Charlton Blue Beetle Ted Kord, and therefore not a true retcon.  Kord remained a Batman-like character to the end.  Jaime premiered in 2005, three years before the Iron Man movie suddenly made its titular character extremely popular.  Incidentally, Kord was not the first Blue Beetle.  That was Dan Garrett, and he actually had mystic powers from an Egyptian scarab (though initially it was said they were from a unique vitamin).  So in essence, Jaime Reyes is the third Blue Beetle and if you will, the third retcon/fourth powerset of the title character (vitamin to mystic scarab to science inventor to alien tech).  Retcon/change is nothing new to the title.

 

Jaime's tech beetle is alien technology, so there's something of a mystery level to it (just how much does it actually have and how far can it be pushed?) whereas Iron Man is a human creation with (supposedly) known limitations.  The closest comparison in the DC roster to Iron Man that I can think of is Steel.  I know a great many Marvel characters (not all) and I cannot really state a good equivalent to Jaime's Blue Beetle.  Venom certainly has "alien" and "symbiote" but isn't technology. 

 

Maybe the best example would have been "CypherLock" a merger of the mutant Cypher (Doug Ramsey) and the alien technarch Warlock.  Like the alien Blue Beetle, there was a risk that the technology that was Warlock's DNA would take over his "host" Cypher, but together they were more powerful than separate, and could do things like create weapons.  That relationship didn't last long however, and Cypher was eventually killed.

 

Fun fact that I learned as the movie release was getting closer: even that version of Blue Beetle (Dan Garrett with the magic scarab) isn't the original. The first Blue Beetle appeared 25 years before that; same name, but just a rookie cop with no powers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Beetle_(Dan_Garrett)

Edited August 18, 2023 by Panache

[Techwright]

9 hours ago, Coin said:

Just got back from seeing this and, as a lifelong DC fan, I loved it. 

 

It's not perfect, but it's bloody good fun, really heartful and pays plenty of homage to DC's past as well.

 

Definitely worth going to see to show DC this is the sort of movie they need to be making.

 

Also, mid and end credit scenes

 

 

Thanks for the spoiler-free endorsement and the heads-up on the credit scenes.

 

Did they have Jim Lee make a Stan-Lee-esque guest appearance?

[Coin]

On 8/18/2023 at 10:19 PM, Techwright said:

 

Thanks for the spoiler-free endorsement and the heads-up on the credit scenes.

 

Did they have Jim Lee make a Stan-Lee-esque guest appearance?

 

Erm, not that I noticed. It's possible, but it's a fast paced movie a lot of the time, so might have blinked and missed him! 😄

 

[Mr. Vee]

It managed to gross over a third of its production costs in the first weekend. I think that might count as a hit by DC standards

[UltraAlt]

On 7/20/2023 at 2:31 PM, Panache said:

Nothing about Jaime Reyes is a retcon of the Ted Kord Blue Beetle. 

 

I was looking up some stuff after I found out about Keith Giffen's death and found this:

 

"DC's introduction of Jaime Reyes in 2006 retconned and expanded upon the Blue Beetle mythos. Revealed to be alien in origin, the scarab bonds with Reyes and provides him with a suit of extraterrestrial armor shortly after Kord's death." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Beetle_(Jaime_Reyes)

 

I'll give you that it was a new character like Jason Todd taking over as Robin.

But Jaime Reyes was also part of a retconning at the same time. The Blue Beetle mythos was retconned to fit him in.

 

But really this is to point out to fans of the Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle that one the three co-creators of the character died recently.

[Ulysses Dare]

On 10/28/2023 at 9:10 AM, UltraAlt said:

I'll give you that it was a new character like Jason Todd taking over as Robin.

But Jaime Reyes was also part of a retconning at the same time. The Blue Beetle mythos was retconned to fit him in.

The change they made was to say that the scarab was alien in origin, rather than being magic. This is a retcon to the Dan Garret's version of Blue Beetle, not Ted Kord's. Ted never used the scarab.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Ulysses Dare

[Frostbiter]

For those of us with Max this movie just landed on the service.