Blue Beetle

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Started a thread earlier about surprisingly good things... then this shows up.

 

Spoiler

So far, so Shazam. 

Superhero gets chosen at random.

Isn't ready or potentially even liking the idea.

Gets his family involved. Gets lots of toys, and a big responsibility.

 

But that's not such a bad thing. There seems to be decent chemistry in the cast and they seem a little more believable as a unit.

(And as a seasoned superrogue and world traveller, I recommend not messing with anyone's abuela because they will mess. You. UP.)

Not sure about Susan Sarandon as Bad Boss GIrl and they probably shouldn't have let on about that this early...but if she can carry it off let's do it.

 

If I have a vibe, it's both happy and sad - that there's another good popcorn flick coming out this summer...

...and that WBD killed the DC slate just on the exact day they figured out how to make a couple of properly entertaining popcorn flicks.

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Ulysses Dare]

Is that Ted Kord's Bug I spy?

[Techwright]

On 4/3/2023 at 5:15 PM, Ulysses Dare said:

Is that Ted Kord's Bug I spy?

 

They say that Ted Kord will be acknowledged in the film.  That's good!

 

I'm getting the vibe of a cross between Shazam and Ant-Man, the latter due to an apparent wacky entourage for the hero.  While I'm not entirely sold on it yet, I did like the Jaime Reyes portrayal in Young Justice, so I do think this is worth giving a solid chance.  I'm puzzled why they gave a weapon of mass destruction a relatively soft, feminine voice.  I'm not opposed to the female part of that formula, it probably balances the cast a bit better, but I would have figured on a drill sergeant delivery, or at least a more bloodthirsty one.  Alex Kingston comes to mind as possibly able to deliver a more savage voice. Cate Blanchette, too.

 

By the way, Blue Beetle is supposed to be the first of the relaunched DC films, so it dodged the axe.  It's a one-shot, but with the understanding that if it does well, the characters will probably show up in the other DC films at some point.

[SeraphimKensai]

Always liked Blue Beetle, so I'll definitely give this one a watch.

[biostem]

I'm not too read-up on Blue Beetle.  My only gripe is I wish we could jump to a hero story "in progress" as it were, already.  Let one be a fully-realized and competent hero at the onset, and we can see some stuff of their origins in flashbacks or stuff, though only if well integrated into the story, and not contrived...

[Techwright]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

I'm not too read-up on Blue Beetle.  My only gripe is I wish we could jump to a hero story "in progress" as it were, already.  Let one be a fully-realized and competent hero at the onset, and we can see some stuff of their origins in flashbacks or stuff, though only if well integrated into the story, and not contrived...

Sounds like Sly Stallone's recent super-powered role in the Amazon movie, Samaritan.

 

To be honest, though, I'm sad to say you may be in the minority.  If a hero story begins in the middle, people these days will spend the next 10 years griping about the "shoddy" writing.  This despite the fact that one of the pillars of writing epics is that the story starts in the middle.   About the only heroes you can get away with in that technique would be the well-known heroes. 

[Ulysses Dare]

14 hours ago, biostem said:

I'm not too read-up on Blue Beetle.  My only gripe is I wish we could jump to a hero story "in progress" as it were, already.  Let one be a fully-realized and competent hero at the onset, and we can see some stuff of their origins in flashbacks or stuff, though only if well integrated into the story, and not contrived...

The CW took that approach with Black Lighting and I loved it.

[TheOtherTed]

Forgive my ignorance of all things super-hero-ish, but I never realized this was an actual thing.  I always thought it was a bit character created for a kid's show back in the 70's.

 

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

On 4/8/2023 at 4:43 PM, Ulysses Dare said:

The CW took that approach with Black Lighting and I loved it.

Also: the Keaton Batman had the tools, toys and talent - and a reputation - from 2 minutes in.

He was smacking down Skuls before Jack Napier ever touched chemicals.

(The opening sequence is also a bluff - it echoes the original Crime Alley setup, but ain't...)

 

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Techwright]

7 hours ago, TheOtherTed said:

Forgive my ignorance of all things super-hero-ish, but I never realized this was an actual thing.  I always thought it was a bit character created for a kid's show back in the 70's.

 

 

 

Blue Beetle has been around in one form or another since the late 1930s, but he's never been an A-lister, despite his importance within the comics.  The comic has changed ownership at least three times since its creation, with DC being the current owners.

There've been 3 characters to don the title.  I'm actually surprised the Ted Kord version hadn't been used over the years in team animations like 1970s' Superfriends, but the Jaime Reyes version, which was more or less a complete re-imagining of the concept, has been gaining steam in some animation this past decade or so, especially in Young Justice.  Perhaps this film will push Blue Beetle into the A-list like the movies did for Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

The Electric Company find was great!  I was a first-gen viewer and I don't remember BB.  Spidey was a constant presence.  I remember Morgan Freeman quite well, too.

[Mr. Vee]

47 minutes ago, Techwright said:

I'm actually surprised the Ted Kord version hadn't been used over the years in team animations like 1970s' Superfriends

DC didn't own him until the early 80s and didn't start using him 'til Crisis. 

[Techwright]

14 hours ago, Mr. Vee said:

DC didn't own him until the early 80s and didn't start using him 'til Crisis. 

Thanks!  Crisis was when?  Some of these big comic events I get confused by, especially when they keep using the successful name for additional events.

[Mr. Vee]

1986 if i iirc correctly. With seemingly years of tedious appearances of the monitor preparing for it. They were probably kinda cool if you were reading at the time but if you read the full books with them all together cuz you're following a reading order it's quite painful.

[TheOtherTed]

On 4/9/2023 at 7:57 PM, Techwright said:

I remember Morgan Freeman quite well, too.

Easy Reader!  I think he was my favorite character on the show.  Just do yourself a favor - if you remember the character fondly, don't look him up on youtube.

[biostem]

So if my understanding is correct, the original, or at least an earlier iteration of Blue Beetle, discovered the eponymous scarab, but couldn't activate/unlock it, but was able to derive some technology from it, that they used, while the modern incarnation did manage to trigger/activate it, and it bonded/connected to them.  If so, I wonder if there will be any explanation for this, or will it be handwaved as either the scarab liking Jaimie better or it being the right time to activate?

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

If I was going to handwave this a little, I’d think the Scarab might have chosen Jaime… wisely. He’s probably the first human to possess it that doesn’t want to either exploit it or destroy it, and therefore a relatively safe pair of hands.
 

And assuming the AI is smart enough to be self-aware that it’s an armageddon weapon, it might also be smart enough to work out it would be destroyed in the process and doesn’t fancy that (unlike the Smart Bomb in Dark Star).

[Techwright]

On 4/11/2023 at 4:26 PM, biostem said:

So if my understanding is correct, the original, or at least an earlier iteration of Blue Beetle, discovered the eponymous scarab, but couldn't activate/unlock it, but was able to derive some technology from it, that they used, while the modern incarnation did manage to trigger/activate it, and it bonded/connected to them.  If so, I wonder if there will be any explanation for this, or will it be handwaved as either the scarab liking Jaimie better or it being the right time to activate?

I've only animation to go on, I've not read the comic books, but in animation the former Blue Beetle, Ted Kord, is killed in an explosion involving the scarab.  I think he was trying to activate it.  Anyway, the scarab did become active, but damaged.  It's why Jaime was initially able to control it, when, as you find out in the story, scarabs were meant to be parasites, completely compromising a host, rather than being a sometimes uncooperative symbiote.

[Coin]

On 4/13/2023 at 7:55 AM, Techwright said:

I've only animation to go on, I've not read the comic books, but in animation the former Blue Beetle, Ted Kord, is killed in an explosion involving the scarab.  I think he was trying to activate it.  Anyway, the scarab did become active, but damaged.  It's why Jaime was initially able to control it, when, as you find out in the story, scarabs were meant to be parasites, completely compromising a host, rather than being a sometimes uncooperative symbiote.

 

If you go by the DC history, the original, Dan Garrett, found the scarab and got magical mystical super-powers that he used to fight crime.

 

The scarab then went to Ted Kord, who got from it.....absolutely nothing 😄

He did go on to be inspired by the original Blue Beetle and became a costumed hero himself, basically a more fun version of Batman, not as good at fighting but arguably better as a scientist, inventing the famous Bug and  his own weaponry. He grew in popularity from the original Crisis, mostly from his run as a member of the hilarious Justice League International where he became part of the famous Blue and Gold duo with Booster Gold. Cue much wacky, zany comedy antics. He was always a popular b-lister in the DC Universe, eventually being killed by Maxwell Lord during another Crisis (the Infinite one, this time)

 

The scarab then ended up with Jaime Reyes who unlocked it's real identity and became the version that is most well known from Young Justice and Batman: Brave and the Bold and that's the version we look like we are getting in the movie.

 

I've always been a fan of all of the Blue Beetles, but he's never been a major hit in any incarnation, but I am looking forward to this movie, partly because the casting for Jaime is excellent, especially after the excellent Cobra Kai 🙂

 

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

You remember what I said about never messing with anyone's abuela?

...I got that right.

[Techwright]

I hope the trailer has in-production CGI.  Some of those shots look like 25-year-old CGI or possibly SyFy on a budget CGI.  I'm not one to complain about CGI, like so many do these days, I remember the Harryhausen stop-motion days all to well, after all, and I'm very grateful for the change.  But a big production like this shouldn't be slacking in that department.

[UltraAlt]

On 4/3/2023 at 3:44 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

So far,

Spoiler

I don't don't know the level of retconning that Blue Beetle has gone through.

I mostly know him from when he was basically Charlton Comics Batman. 

 

I know that probably the largest demographic considers that all superheroes can fly under their own power, but I don't think it is necessary for all superheroes to be able to fly.

Also, this Blue Beetle's "armor" seems to be more powerful than Iron Man's armor.

 

It's kind of ironic that a Batman-like character turns into a Iron Man-like character ... personality traits and origin stories are obviously different.

Was there really a need to retcon Blue Beetle away from his similarity to Batman?

Was the Blue Beetle changed to an armored warrior to fill a gap in DC with an Iron Man equivalent?

 

The "every hero needs to be able to fly" is what really throws me off.

Honestly, I know full well that it has been proven (at least to me) in every superhero game online that flight is superior to all other modes of transportation.

I'm a character conception player, so that realization isn't going to stop me from using other travel powers, but it obviously seems to be added to many characters.

 

I remember when I was working producing t-shirts and were were working on t-shirts for he original Power Rangers.

One of the artist had a picture of Tommy in his Green Ranger costume flying. 

I was like "The Green Ranger can't fly". Then sure enough, several episodes later on TV, suddenly the Power Rangers can fly. And I mean "fly" and not super leaping onto something.

Why? There was really no story reasoning for it. The show was fine without them being able to fly.

And I think it falls back to the feeling that the greater demographic expects superheroes to be able to fly.

 

Other than that, looks cool enough.

Governmental or Corporate corruption? Check.

Diversity included? Check? (Seems to be toned down but hard to tell from the trailer.)

Main character changed into a woman? No. (It was a trend to do genderfliping. I don't know if that is still ongoing.)

Romance relationships of one form or another? Unknown.

Relationship to current comic book title? Unknown.

Annoying main character traits? Unknown.

Fart level jokes? Unknown. (save us from Thor Ragnarok!) Potential exists based on casting.

Explosions? Check.

Character can fly? Check. Plenty of footage of the character flying.

Enemy with similar powers and origin? Check. WHY!?!

 

[Techwright]

11 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

  Hide contents

I don't don't know the level of retconning that Blue Beetle has gone through.

I mostly know him from when he was basically Charlton Comics Batman. 

 

I know that probably the largest demographic considers that all superheroes can fly under their own power, but I don't think it is necessary for all superheroes to be able to fly.

Also, this Blue Beetle's "armor" seems to be more powerful than Iron Man's armor.

 

It's kind of ironic that a Batman-like character turns into a Iron Man-like character ... personality traits and origin stories are obviously different.

Was there really a need to retcon Blue Beetle away from his similarity to Batman?

Was the Blue Beetle changed to an armored warrior to fill a gap in DC with an Iron Man equivalent?

 

The "every hero needs to be able to fly" is what really throws me off.

Honestly, I know full well that it has been proven (at least to me) in every superhero game online that flight is superior to all other modes of transportation.

I'm a character conception player, so that realization isn't going to stop me from using other travel powers, but it obviously seems to be added to many characters.

 

I remember when I was working producing t-shirts and were were working on t-shirts for he original Power Rangers.

One of the artist had a picture of Tommy in his Green Ranger costume flying. 

I was like "The Green Ranger can't fly". Then sure enough, several episodes later on TV, suddenly the Power Rangers can fly. And I mean "fly" and not super leaping onto something.

Why? There was really no story reasoning for it. The show was fine without them being able to fly.

And I think it falls back to the feeling that the greater demographic expects superheroes to be able to fly.

 

Other than that, looks cool enough.

Governmental or Corporate corruption? Check.

Diversity included? Check? (Seems to be toned down but hard to tell from the trailer.)

Main character changed into a woman? No. (It was a trend to do genderfliping. I don't know if that is still ongoing.)

Romance relationships of one form or another? Unknown.

Relationship to current comic book title? Unknown.

Annoying main character traits? Unknown.

Fart level jokes? Unknown. (save us from Thor Ragnarok!) Potential exists based on casting.

Explosions? Check.

Character can fly? Check. Plenty of footage of the character flying.

Enemy with similar powers and origin? Check. WHY!?!

 

 

FYI...current Blue Beetle Jaime Reyes is not the Charlton Blue Beetle Ted Kord, and therefore not a true retcon.  Kord remained a Batman-like character to the end.  Jaime premiered in 2005, three years before the Iron Man movie suddenly made its titular character extremely popular.  Incidentally, Kord was not the first Blue Beetle.  That was Dan Garrett, and he actually had mystic powers from an Egyptian scarab (though initially it was said they were from a unique vitamin).  So in essence, Jaime Reyes is the third Blue Beetle and if you will, the third retcon/fourth powerset of the title character (vitamin to mystic scarab to science inventor to alien tech).  Retcon/change is nothing new to the title.

 

Jaime's tech beetle is alien technology, so there's something of a mystery level to it (just how much does it actually have and how far can it be pushed?) whereas Iron Man is a human creation with (supposedly) known limitations.  The closest comparison in the DC roster to Iron Man that I can think of is Steel.  I know a great many Marvel characters (not all) and I cannot really state a good equivalent to Jaime's Blue Beetle.  Venom certainly has "alien" and "symbiote" but isn't technology. 

 

Maybe the best example would have been "CypherLock" a merger of the mutant Cypher (Doug Ramsey) and the alien technarch Warlock.  Like the alien Blue Beetle, there was a risk that the technology that was Warlock's DNA would take over his "host" Cypher, but together they were more powerful than separate, and could do things like create weapons.  That relationship didn't last long however, and Cypher was eventually killed.

[UltraAlt]

1 hour ago, Techwright said:

FYI...current Blue Beetle Jaime Reyes is not the Charlton Blue Beetle Ted Kord, and therefore not a true retcon.

Spoiler

 

I'm not sure how that isn't a retcon.

 

I'm unsure what a "true" retcon means, but I think I know what it implies.

But I will agree that it isn't actively starting the character from scratch and changing their history.

 

1 hour ago, Techwright said:

Retcon/change is nothing new to the title.

 

rrr... okay. Well. Sounds like a Retcon.

 

1 hour ago, Techwright said:

Jaime's tech beetle is alien technology, so there's something of a mystery level to it (just how much does it actually have and how far can it be pushed?) whereas Iron Man is a human creation with (supposedly) known limitations.

 

And this goes to my comment about all superheroes don't need to be able to fly or be uber powerful.

Not only is it basically an armored suit, it is also far more powerful than Iron Man's armor.

 

1 hour ago, Techwright said:

Venom certainly has "alien" and "symbiote" but isn't technology. 

 

What I'm seeing is closer to Iron Man due to the armor.

But I can understand that angle as well, so more like the Guyver I guess.

 

 

Whoops. I guess I shouldn't have spoiler-ed that, but I can't seem to be able to undo it easily.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

5 hours ago, Techwright said:

whereas Iron Man is a human creation with (supposedly) known limitations

I've always thought of Tony as one of those irritating move fast and break things kind of bros who infest my industry, and it's always more fun to watch when the things break because they took shortcuts. Genius has limitations.

 

BTW, this is also who the move fast and break things adage reminds me of:

 

[Techwright]

1 minute ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

I've always thought of Tony as one of those irritating move fast and break things kind of bros who infest my industry, and it's always more fun to watch when the things break because they took shortcuts. Genius has limitations.

 

I know what you mean.  I had a roommate 30 years back that we called "Tim the Toolman Taylor" because he so typified the Home Improvement character.  I'm not sure I could call him "genius", though he was highly knowledgeable in his field and a hard worker, but he was constantly getting into hilarious trouble for his type-A, hit-the-ground-running personality.