Gravity/Kin? Yay or Nay?

[honoroit]

22 minutes ago, Sykar said:

And you can get there without Hasten. But I guess you do not care about other peoples opinion and just want to continue reaffirming your own.

 

sure, but point being, you spin up faster in general occupying all the abilities, and can reduce slot focus on recharge one you perma hasten, using siphon speed on cd.

 

same reasoning behind inclusion of force feedbacks, its to reach a point of recharge reduction, and keep it as high as possible.

 

how much one wants to focus on that - bc hasten help a LOT, is of course to the taste of the player, kupo.

Edited July 25, 2023 by honoroit

[Sykar]

It helps a lot if you do not have a lot of recharge which is mostly early leveling. Once you do it helps a lot less.

[Without_Pause]

4 hours ago, Sykar said:

But I guess you do not care about other peoples opinion and just want to continue reaffirming your own.

(holds up mirror)

[Sykar]

Lol sure buddy whatever helps you sleep at night.

[honoroit]

hasten

 

its that good, kupo.

 

it speeds all the cooldowns, including its own. it really is amazing, kupo!

 

stacking other cooldown reducers with hasten, also great, bigly huge great, kupo.

 

for a kineticist, siphon speed is faster recharged by hasten, and hasten speeds siphon speed. how marvelous, kupo!

 

we'll leave aside the others delivered such as a quicker heal, mana refill, stacking dmg boost with a set duration, and other greatnesses, kupo.

 

all the offset powers are sped up too! - so inferno or blizzard / else is MUCH more frequent, kupo.

 

when kin, you put probably 50-60% of power activation time to kin, kupo.

 

thats a lot, kupo, so the openings you have, you want to occupy them with hard hitting skills, heavy cc, or whatever your offset can bring best, most often, kupo.

 

(you wanna use the strong ones, so you have to go fast)

Edited July 25, 2023 by honoroit

[Sykar]

No it is not that good at least not on /kin compared to for example illusion or dominators. But as I said before you do not care anyway so this is where I exit this pointless exchange since it is getting boring reading the same drivel over and over.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Sykar

[Agorazium]

I like grav/kin. Dimension Shift is one of the better “oh s***” powers in the game which really helps balance kin’s lack of defensive options in emergencies. If you’re sturdy enough to play in melee, Singularity’s pull-toward aura also helps keep enemies grouped for Fulcrum Shift.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Agorazium

[tidge]

I don't use Hasten on my Grav/Kin Controller.

 

My general thoughts on Hasten follow, YMMV.

 

If I don't have powers with (a) extremely long recharge times, (b) a minimized attack chain that relies on precise timing, or (c) a specific power (usually defensive, or something like Domination) that relies on an auto-fire before expiry, I usually never think twice about excluding Hasten. A second or two of baseline recharge (modulo enemy slows, etc.) almost never motivates me... I could be combining inspirations or doing something in those seconds other than button mashing (picking targets, whatever) instead. FWIW. I try to build perma-Doms such that Hasten isn't needed.

 

I dislike that committing (in my feels) to Hasten implies that I'm going to want to invest a second slot in it.

 

In build-crafting, I dislike that I have to figure out where in the build (level-wise power pick) to put Hasten so that it offers meaningful returns on the powers I want it for. Since Homecoming has made higher-level (aka signature) powers available earlier in builds, I simply have less room for Hasten than before. As an aside: Homecoming has made it much easier to get enhancement set bonuses that improve global Recharge passively,  almost all of these scale down to level 20 (some scale lower, some scale higher). I never take Hasten below level 10, and rarely before level 20. Specialty builds (such as Incarnate only) have varying mileage of course.

 

I dislike the Endurance drop when Hasten expires. I know that this can be ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ , but if I have to slow down button mashing, or re-toggle powers that have dropped, I feel that I've basically sabotaged the reason for taking Hasten in the first place.

 

I prefer to have travel powers; Super Speed (from the Speed pool) is ok, but I prefer other travel powers (including those that are akin to Super Speed). Other power pools tend to offer me more of what I am looking for in a build... either straight-up with powers that will improve the play experience or as mules for Enhancement pieces/sets.

 

TL;DR: I have to be strongly persuaded to put Hasten in a build.

[Panache]

On a Kin where you’re going to be at or near the damage cap a good chunk of the time, Procs can contribute a lot of ‘extra’ damage, so having an extra 70% global recharge is A Good Thing. 
 

It’s also a lot easier to manage a click power with a two minute duration than it is to rely on firing (and hitting with) the nearly 2 second long cast* of Siphon Speed every time it recharges. To replace all of Hasten’s 70% bonus, you need 3.5 Siphon Speed stacks.

 

Lastly, including Hasten in builds means needing to chase fewer +Rech set bonuses, so it allows for more IO flexibility.

 

All fairly obvious points, but I hadn’t seen them pop up yet. I do have a Grav/Kin and it does have (perma) Hasten, and capped range, and a ton of procs and yadda yadda. It’s fun.

 

*Might not sound like a lot, but you’ll need 4 casts of Siphon Speed to equal Hasten; or we can just forget about the Hasten comp and look at 3 stacks of SS. That means you’re firing it about/at least once every 20 seconds, with a nearly 2 second cast time. I don’t want to spend 10% of my button mashing on keeping up that buff.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Panache

[Sykar]

4 hours ago, Panache said:

On a Kin where you’re going to be at or near the damage cap a good chunk of the time, Procs can contribute a lot of ‘extra’ damage, so having an extra 70% global recharge is A Good Thing. 
 

It’s also a lot easier to manage a click power with a two minute duration than it is to rely on firing (and hitting with) the nearly 2 second long cast* of Siphon Speed every time it recharges. To replace all of Hasten’s 70% bonus, you need 3.5 Siphon Speed stacks.

 

Lastly, including Hasten in builds means needing to chase fewer +Rech set bonuses, so it allows for more IO flexibility.

 

All fairly obvious points, but I hadn’t seen them pop up yet. I do have a Grav/Kin and it does have (perma) Hasten, and capped range, and a ton of procs and yadda yadda. It’s fun.

 

*Might not sound like a lot, but you’ll need 4 casts of Siphon Speed to equal Hasten; or we can just forget about the Hasten comp and look at 3 stacks of SS. That means you’re firing it about/at least once every 20 seconds, with a nearly 2 second cast time. I don’t want to spend 10% of my button mashing on keeping up that buff.

 

Again, your CDs are short as it is and with 1 minute CDs on your big abilities those 70% seem nice on paper, in practicality you shave off 3-4 seconds once you are just even somewhat geared and that is not even counting in Incarnates. As usual you people love to throw out the 70% recharge without any further context. Once you hit endgame the bonus from Hasten becomes even less relevant. And no you do not need Siphon Speed at 4 stacks, it is utterly superfluous to try to stack Siphon Speed that to compensate Hasten. 1-2 stacks is more than enough just do not let it expire.

Far more important is that you get sufficient defence and resists considering that you are operating at dangerously close distances and please spare me the "just CC bro" nonsense, it will not always work.

[Without_Pause]

47 minutes ago, Sykar said:

Far more important is that you get sufficient defence and resists considering that you are operating at dangerously close distances and please spare me the "just CC bro" nonsense, it will not always work.

You would be chasing Def and Resist set bonuses with at best two slots. In a number of cases, those set bonuses aren't even in the 2 slot as they tend to go to health and end aspects. If you are talking yourself out of a power which uses 4-6 slots, then by all means that's a worthy topic.

 

EDIT: You could look at taking a one slot wonder power and using the extra slot elsewhere, but I tend to find room for all of the one slot type of powers anyway.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Without_Pause

[Panache]

1 hour ago, Sykar said:

 

Again, your CDs are short as it is and with 1 minute CDs on your big abilities those 70% seem nice on paper, in practicality you shave off 3-4 seconds once you are just even somewhat geared and that is not even counting in Incarnates. As usual you people love to throw out the 70% recharge without any further context. Once you hit endgame the bonus from Hasten becomes even less relevant. And no you do not need Siphon Speed at 4 stacks, it is utterly superfluous to try to stack Siphon Speed that to compensate Hasten. 1-2 stacks is more than enough just do not let it expire.

Far more important is that you get sufficient defence and resists considering that you are operating at dangerously close distances and please spare me the "just CC bro" nonsense, it will not always work.

 

Homie, the question was, "what does Hasten add to /Kin?". People have answered that question. You have decided to take it upon yourself to make value statements about these answers, and to do so in an unnecessarily defensive, argumentative manner. Nobody said, "lol, you're dumb for not taking Hasten". Calm down. Or have the courage of your conviction and "exit this pointless exchange" because it's "full of drivel" from "you people". 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Panache

[Panache]

On 7/25/2023 at 3:18 PM, Without_Pause said:

(holds up mirror)

Srsly

[ninja surprise]

I love my Grav/Kin. It has 4 single-target blasts and the big AoE immob and it spoiled me for all the other Controller primaries and their lack of attacks.

With /Kin you can buff and heal yourself (and the rest of your team if they are keeping up with you).

Mine has ranged defense soft-capped so I play like this:

• AoE immob - everyone turns and shoots back and most miss. Maybe start with Wormhole to stun them or Propel to knock them all down if they are dangerous.
• Hold the nearest foe; use them as my Transfusion battery
• Throw out the AoE immob constantly - with Containment it's a constant rain of DoTs
• Tab through the crowd throwing out all the ST attacks
• Continue to use Transfusion and Transference to heal myself; plus Siphon Speed, Siphon Power, and Fulcrum Shift whenever they come up.

It's a blast. And on lower level teams / TFs where I can't help as much with controls I still have the Kinetics, with SB available even on Posi TFs if you're level 15.

I recently made two builds: a solo build where I skipped SB and ID and a team build with those and Leadership instead of Fighting.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

I want to thank everyone in this thread for all the information.

It has been enlightening to say the least.

I now plan to attempt to create a grav/time controller

I have a Kin already

but i rarely team to make the most of fulcrum shift and when i do team,

the team steamrolls so fast fulcrum shift rarely hits.

again tyvm. stay safe out there

[Without_Pause]

You just need to be a bit more aggressive to get FS off. Also, Grav isn't the best when soloing for getting through bigger mobs where FS shines in a reasonable time frame. Fire or Plant is ideal for that. As someone who ODed on Kin, Grav/time is a solid pairing. 

[smnolimits43]

On 7/20/2023 at 5:29 AM, honoroit said:

 

 

would recommend hasten, and early, in /kin. like level 4-6 early, by my preference. doing that lets you siphon power enough to overlap a few when exemplar'd down to low level tf ranges as example. think of it this way, 40% or so dmg to team is still more than an elec affinity can give with its damage chain buff, and about half natures t9 damage component... this from an early power.  

 

hasten tightens the cycle, you are always trying to run a dynamo, so to say.

 

youch.. that picture is giving me a headache 🙂