Gravity/Kin? Yay or Nay?

[Kabuki]

The title gets to the root of it, any opinions on the combo of Gravity/Kinetics? I have very little Controller experience, having only a Dark/Dark at incarnate levels and an Illusion/Rad just shy of 50, and I am not sure how well the sets mesh, or how fidgety they will be. Thanks in advance for any advice or input.

[honoroit]

you can move them, then fulcrum shift.

 

you can banish them in a way that doesnt (certainly shouldnt) upset people because phased.

 

your pet is good/great.

 

you address controller dmg low with a solid st chain and some aoe splash.

 

youre a /kin.

 

negatively, i guess, your immob doesnt prevent knock. but w/e

 

its not too fiddly, as ive seen it.  if you dont mind spoilers play a little on brainstorm (beta) as pvl and see if your going to like what arises. bear in mind thats like walking into a max lvl character youve not grpwn with, which can naturally cause a distaste.

[Uun]

I played Grav/Kin on live from I3 to the end and wrote a guide around I5/I6 (largely out of date now). It's a fun combination but not as popular as it once was. Wormhole + Fulcrum Shift can be abused constantly. Singularity is a great pet (but can't be healed). Siphon Power is optional and doesn't need more than 1-2 slots. Dimension Shift is situational but doesn't require more than the base slot. Repel, Increase Density and Interial Reduction are skippable (or can be used as mules). Gives you a lot of room to add Leadership, etc.

[Heatstroke]

I played a Grav Kin for a long time. Grav Time was much better IMO.

[EmperorSteele]

The fun part of Grav/Kin if you turn on Repel, you'll look like your Singularity pet (they both use a spinny orbital ring effect) =D

 

And also everything said above.

[Tex Connor]

On 6/3/2023 at 4:19 PM, Heatstroke said:

I played a Grav Kin for a long time. Grav Time was much better IMO.

 

I played a Grav/Kin controller on live to 50, and had a lot of fun playing the role of "force multiplier".  In what ways are Grav/Time better, in your opinion?

[Captain Fabulous]

Gravity is one of those sets that doesn't really synergize better or worse with any particular secondary. Kin has always been a good set, so it should be a fine pairing.

[Heatstroke]

3 hours ago, Tex Connor said:

 

I played a Grav/Kin controller on live to 50, and had a lot of fun playing the role of "force multiplier".  In what ways are Grav/Time better, in your opinion?

 

 

Ways I though Grav/Time was better

 

Time gives

 

A second hold in Time Stop that I could stack with Gravity Distortion to Hold Bosses. Also Singularity Spams a hold as well. Holds are also excellent places to stack procs to increase potential damage

 

Unlike Speed Boost which does not work on me.  Chrono Shift increases my recharge speed, increases my recovery, and heals. The increased recharge speeds means all my control powers come up quicker. And with enough recharge and slotting it can be made perma. And unlike Siphon Speed I dont need a target. 

 

Slow Response is a solid debuff of -recharge and -res and when stacked with Time Crawl is even stronger

 

Farsight adds +Defense and + To Hit 

 

And while you cannot heal a Singularity, Temporal Selection will boost its damage and it will boost its Regen rate and add 25% damage to Singy

 

Time worked better for me than Kin. I can buff my team AND myself. easier... 

 

 

[biostem]

I have a 50 grav/kin.  I mainly treat the grav attacks like blasts.  I find myself using the grav powers to better position enemies so I can maximize the kinetics powers.

[tidge]

I had a Grav/Kin on Live, and she was recreated (probably on the first day of Torchbearer going up) on Homecoming as one of my early nostalgia efforts. Part of the nostalgia was remembering just... how... slow... it is to solo that character without leveraging all that Homecoming has to offer (easy enhancement options, extra XP, etc.).

 

What always comes first to my mind about my Grav/Kin are these:

• The secondary doesn't need much in the way of slotting,
• The secondary allows slotting of lots of different travel powers, and can make characters speedy, in multiple ways.

The latter bullet point is practically irrelevant in the current Homecoming, but it was a real selling point for me on Live: we go fast, they go slow. I did respin my character to be able to have faster solo map-clearing times, but it relied too much on Epic/Patron power pools for my taste. My build philophy has aged since then, and with new enhancement options and power pool choices I would probably approach the combo differently.

 

As @Heatstroke wrote: I have a feeling /Time Manipulation (especially with Epic Power Boost) would serve just as well in most mass combats... there are obvious tradeoffs in approach... but also give a player more options when solo.

[Tex Connor]

2 hours ago, Heatstroke said:

Time worked better for me than Kin. I can buff my team AND myself. easier... 

 

Fair points.  Thank you for taking the time to reply.

[Uun]

Time is a great set, but a few things to keep in mind:

• Transfusion is a much stronger heal than Temporal Mending.
• The -speed and -recharge in Siphon Speed are unresistable and stack with themselves. This is big against AVs, which heavily resist debuffs.
• Time has an AoE -resist and a ST +damage, but it has nothing like Fulcrum Shift, which can keep an entire team at the damage cap. Arguably the best buff in the game.

[Heatstroke]

11 hours ago, Tex Connor said:

 

Fair points.  Thank you for taking the time to reply.

 

No problem. This is why I went with Time over my old Grav/Kin. I liked it much better. YMMV. 

[Without_Pause]

To add, Kin is built for speed. Propel's animation time is long. If you need to pop a quick Transfusion while using Propel, you are stuck waiting. Wormhole comes late and has KB which Grav doesn't default into controlling so you need an IO for it since Kin really doesn't like KB on average. I think Grav could use some tweaking regardless of what it pairs with, but more so if you want to pair it with /kin.

[Sykar]

How much does Hasten add to /kin? It seems to me due to access to Siphon Speed that Hasten seems rather skippable.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Sykar

[Without_Pause]

8 hours ago, Sykar said:

How much does Hasten add to /kin? It seems to me due to access to Siphon Speed that Hasten seems rather skippable.

What is this Hasten is skippable talk? Others may feel different, but I can't imagine not having Hasten on a Kin. You're damage capped. Do you not want to attack even more?

[Sykar]

If the CD drops below attack animation speed the extra recharge rate becomes pointless. It is not like it is hard to get decent recharge reduction from just slots and Siphon Speed.

[Without_Pause]

1 hour ago, Sykar said:

If the CD drops below attack animation speed the extra recharge rate becomes pointless. It is not like it is hard to get decent recharge reduction from just slots and Siphon Speed.

And for your other powers? Fireball animates in 1 sec. It recharges in 32.

[Sykar]

I am sure shaving 2-3 seconds off from Fireball totally makes or breaks the build. /s

[Without_Pause]

1 minute ago, Sykar said:

I am sure shaving 2-3 seconds off from Fireball totally makes or breaks the build. /s

Clearly you don't want to take it even though you asked if one should. It's your build. Do what you want, but for me I play aggressively and want all of my bigger hitters back asap. So sure, having a power back lets save a second faster doesn't seem to be that big of a deal, but it absolutely can be in the right situation, see any AoE control or Transfusion. Also, you absolutely want Hasten on a Ill/kin.

[Sykar]

Either you have a short memory or you are disingenuous. In my first reply here I wrote:

"How much does Hasten add to /kin? It seems to me due to access to Siphon Speed that Hasten seems rather skippable."

I never asked if I should take it into MY build. I questioned whether Hasten actually adds all that much to /kin and for good reason. My now lvl 46 Grav/Kin has not been using Hasten for the past 3 levels both solo and in TFs and the difference is somewhat noticeable but not so much that I feel that is really needed and I do not have any IOs. Part of that is because /kin CDs are fairly low baseline to begin with, with Fulcrum Speed having only a 60 second CD baseline. Compare that to /time where both Chrono Shiftt and Farsight being at iirc 4 minutes.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Sykar

[honoroit]

 

11 minutes ago, Sykar said:

How much does Hasten add to /kin

 

would recommend hasten, and early, in /kin. like level 4-6 early, by my preference. doing that lets you siphon power enough to overlap a few when exemplar'd down to low level tf ranges as example. think of it this way, 40% or so dmg to team is still more than an elec affinity can give with its damage chain buff, and about half natures t9 damage component... this from an early power.  

 

hasten tightens the cycle, you are always trying to run a dynamo, so to say.

 

[Sykar]

The thing is that Fulcrum Shift has a very short CD of 1 minute. Which means you can quickly get it to a CD where Hasten has such a little effect that is nigh unnoticable. If you think there is a major difference between 30 and 33 seconds CD... well I guess we have to agree to disagree.

Hell even on my Grav/Time controller I opted out of Hasten because I can get to perma Farsight anyway and my uptime of Chrono Shift is about 75% which Hasten would only marginally improve considering the recharge I am already sitting so the benefit is very dubious. That despite me being far from finished slotting sets. I can still tickle out quite a bit more if I get stuff like FF procs in.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Sykar

[honoroit]

if you include siphon speed on cooldown, thats dragging hasten recharge with it too.

 

we want fulcrum on max / damage capped NOW and ALWAYS, says every team. 

 

tighter helps with a crappy hit, which can occur on occasion, such as post alpha strike from empowered team.

 

got to go fast!

 

run on a hamster 🐹 wheel, thats what kin is all about!

[Sykar]

And you can get there without Hasten. But I guess you do not care about other peoples opinion and just want to continue reaffirming your own.