Power in need of some TLC.

[squishy]

I'm currently trying to make an exotic electric tank build, and while rerolling, I picked the electric melee as well.

 

The power Jaccob's ladder, is bordering on being a single enemy power.

This is due, I think, to the tiny distance of the power, 7ft, and the way mobs will be positioned and their distance calculated it seems. One mob in front of you, is already at 5ft.

 

I've just tried many times, and because of this, the mobs right next to the one you're targeting, will seemingly never get hit. Which means, the cone, will virtually always, only hit a single mob.

 

This means it seems to be an absolute miracle if the cone hits a 2nd mob. So far, I have not hit 3 mobs with it, regardless of how I tried positioning myself.

 

This does seem to be a problem with melee cones. I would suggest increasing the range  to 10ft, as this seems to be where a 2nd line of mobs would be in a group. Alternatively, turn them into melee AOEs (circle of 5ft around your toon), at least you'll be hitting more than one mob with it that way 🙂

[Rudra]

All melee powers, barring that one whip attack from Demon Summoning, have a 7 feet range. And with a 50 degree arc, Jacob's Ladder is not really a small cone. (I don't take it on any of my electric melee characters because I don't like the animation and I think it is a pointless power. There are other players that swear by it however.)

[squishy]

50 degrees, will not cover the side mobs most of the time. 

Since it's a cone, even at a 50 degrees angle, because they're so far appart, the cone will barely ever touch the side mobs.

They really should make it, at LEAST, a 180degrees power, but considering it's for a tank that'll be surrounded all the time, a 360 would make a lot more sense in my opinion.

 

Cones only makes sense for mid range powers, otherwise, your cone simply does not have the spread to tag many enemies.

[A.I.D.A.]

Arc widening affects the damage formula accordingly, so it would have to deal less damage to compensate for the increased arc. If you treat it as a single-target power, essentially, it's still a semi-decent pick.

[crimson72]

Thugs are pretty well garbage.  It's probably the weakest of the mastermind pools, it honestly used to be the strongest one in the original game for awhile, so I don't know what happened between then and now, but I can say with certainty that thugs are trash now.  

[TheZag]

1 minute ago, crimson72 said:

Thugs are pretty well garbage.  It's probably the weakest of the mastermind pools, it honestly used to be the strongest one in the original game for awhile, so I don't know what happened between then and now, but I can say with certainty that thugs are trash now.  

 

I guess give thugs jacobs ladder so they can be even worse?

[crimson72]

Just now, TheZag said:

 

I guess give thugs jacobs ladder so they can be even worse?

It would be a buff actually, because jacobs ladder sounds better than thugs. 

[crimson72]

Triage beacon with traps is completely useless, I can't notice a difference when it's on or off.  It should be healing a certain amount per tick that scales with level or something, or a %HP amount per tick.  

 

I recently rolled a thugs/traps mastermind, and I truthfully 100% feel like I just stumbled on the worst possible build in the game currently.  It does no damage, has no heals, and a bunch of stuff that takes too much time to place.  I think the acid mortar should be placed without a crouching on the ground animation, just summon it like a pet.  The other stuff, you should be able to toss it to the ground like caltrops vs crouching down.  Traps needs a huge amount of love.  

Edited May 26, 2023 by crimson72
additional info

[squishy]

Just to be clear, this is on a tank. I'm not sure the powers are the same from one class to the next even if they've got the same name.

 

The only way I've managed to get it to hit more than one mob with some consistency, is to target a mob, then put myself in front of another, at a slight angle from my target. This way, most mobs will stack behind it but slightly to their side, and hence be within 7ft , and hence, I can hit 2.

 

If it can not be put as a melee AOE, then maybe an AOE launched from the target? But as it stands, while the power has a really nice damage output for a tank, the multiple enemies cone hit, is really not happening unless you really work for it. Considering the time it takes to put yourself in the right spot for it to hit two mobs, you might as well forget the cone, and hit the 2nd target with another attack instead... 

I've replicated the behavior with "sans of mu", which is the exact same type, 7ft cone melee. 

For people using REAL distance measurement units, it's about 2 meters.

 

Assuming a 50 degrees angle, that's 25 degrees each side from the middle of your face, over a 2 meters distance. Max target, 10? If you manage to stick 10 targets in a 2 meters space, well done you. Honestly, I think the designer of that power, really did not think about how short 2 meters is. Best you could do, would be three, since 4 would have the cone slipping between the first two. Increasing the arc to 90 degrees, would probably cover 5 targets or so, maybe, if they slot themselves in the idea positions,which will only happen if you're surrounded like hell by mobs, and they have to pile up to have a chance at hitting you.

 

I honestly think all the melee cone 7ft attacks, should be converted to 180 degrees front arc attacks, if not a full 360, so it is actually useful in solo when mobs count is much lower. Most if not all, seem to have restrictions of 10 targets. Even with a 180 arc, 10 would be within the best case scenario anyway. So far, 7 mobs are pretty much surrounding you already, over that, they seem to have to move non stop just to be able to get a hit due to the hit collision on you and other mobs. 7tf with two mobs, means that most of the time, they'll be in a beehive formation. If they stand behind each other, the 2nd mob is already between 7 and 8 ft, not to mention the constant movement so they can get back into their own hit range.

 

Power Type:Click Target Type:Enemies

Power Range:7.00 ft.

Effect Area:Cone -- 7.00 ft.

radius 50.00 degree arc (10 targets max)

Attack Types:AoE defense, energy defense

 

Increasing the range would not help much either, as you'll still be missing the side mobs in front of you, hence, would only help when you're surrounded by mobs.

But a 7ft "cone", simply makes no sense.

 

In the case of soloing, or hunting on open maps, most mob groups would be two to three. In that case, you'll usually end up with one mob in front, one on each side, or one on a side and one behind you.

For those powers to have any use in those cases, they'll need to go 180 at the very least.

 

If not, they might as well be dropped to single enemies, and get their cost and CD turned down, otherwise I recon most people would not even bother using them.

 

 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

1 hour ago, squishy said:

Just to be clear, this is on a tank. I'm not sure the powers are the same from one class to the next even if they've got the same name.

 

The only way I've managed to get it to hit more than one mob with some consistency, is to target a mob, then put myself in front of another, at a slight angle from my target. This way, most mobs will stack behind it but slightly to their side, and hence be within 7ft , and hence, I can hit 2.

 

If it can not be put as a melee AOE, then maybe an AOE launched from the target? But as it stands, while the power has a really nice damage output for a tank, the multiple enemies cone hit, is really not happening unless you really work for it. Considering the time it takes to put yourself in the right spot for it to hit two mobs, you might as well forget the cone, and hit the 2nd target with another attack instead... 

I've replicated the behavior with "sans of mu", which is the exact same type, 7ft cone melee. 

For people using REAL distance measurement units, it's about 2 meters.

 

Assuming a 50 degrees angle, that's 25 degrees each side from the middle of your face, over a 2 meters distance. Max target, 10? If you manage to stick 10 targets in a 2 meters space, well done you. Honestly, I think the designer of that power, really did not think about how short 2 meters is. Best you could do, would be three, since 4 would have the cone slipping between the first two. Increasing the arc to 90 degrees, would probably cover 5 targets or so, maybe, if they slot themselves in the idea positions,which will only happen if you're surrounded like hell by mobs, and they have to pile up to have a chance at hitting you.

 

I honestly think all the melee cone 7ft attacks, should be converted to 180 degrees front arc attacks, if not a full 360, so it is actually useful in solo when mobs count is much lower. Most if not all, seem to have restrictions of 10 targets. Even with a 180 arc, 10 would be within the best case scenario anyway. So far, 7 mobs are pretty much surrounding you already, over that, they seem to have to move non stop just to be able to get a hit due to the hit collision on you and other mobs. 7tf with two mobs, means that most of the time, they'll be in a beehive formation. If they stand behind each other, the 2nd mob is already between 7 and 8 ft, not to mention the constant movement so they can get back into their own hit range.

 

Power Type:Click Target Type:Enemies

Power Range:7.00 ft.

Effect Area:Cone -- 7.00 ft.

radius 50.00 degree arc (10 targets max)

Attack Types:AoE defense, energy defense

 

Increasing the range would not help much either, as you'll still be missing the side mobs in front of you, hence, would only help when you're surrounded by mobs.

But a 7ft "cone", simply makes no sense.

 

In the case of soloing, or hunting on open maps, most mob groups would be two to three. In that case, you'll usually end up with one mob in front, one on each side, or one on a side and one behind you.

For those powers to have any use in those cases, they'll need to go 180 at the very least.

 

If not, they might as well be dropped to single enemies, and get their cost and CD turned down, otherwise I recon most people would not even bother using them.

 

 

 

positioning, positioning & positioning. 

 

Cones, Knockback, & location AOE abilities require a bit more skill to use effectively/efficiently.

 

That being said I am not against longer/wider cones.

[squishy]

26 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

 

positioning, positioning & positioning. 

 

Cones, Knockback, & location AOE abilities require a bit more skill to use effectively/efficiently.

 

That being said I am not against longer/wider cones.

Oh sure, having the player needing to manage their position is fine with me.

 

What bugs me here, is that the whole cone design for melee is entirely pointless and bordering on being useless.

 

A cone like this, with the appropriate range of course, for a ranged class, would be absolutely fine, since the cone would cover several enemies.

But in a melee situation with such a short range and arc, meh... 🙂

[Akisan]

49 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

positioning, positioning & positioning. 

 

Cones, Knockback, & location AOE abilities require a bit more skill to use effectively/efficiently.

 

That being said I am not against longer/wider cones.

 

It's pretty easy to hit 2 or 3 (or more) enemies with Jacob's Ladder or Shadow Maul - just target the mob in the middle, and take a step left or right before activating those attacks (so the targeted mob behind another mob).  You don't have to be literally toe-to-toe to hit in melee (that 7' range is to the edge of their hitbox, not the center).  Usually though, I treat narrower melee cones (like Jacob's Ladder & Shadow Maul) as Dual Target attacks (I use it when I can line up 2 enemies), with anyone else caught in it as bonus damage.

 

And yes, there is a Ranged cone that is in that "extra targets are bonus damage" category - Piercing Rounds (Dual Pistol's snipe).  It's got a 2 degree arc, with a 3 target cap, to simulate "shooting through" your target.

 

As an aside, my record is 6 enemies caught in Jacob's ladder - but one wasn't counted since the target cap was 5 at the time (Cap's 10 now, I don't think I'll be reaching that one). And yes, it was *loud*, since it stacks that zzzPOP noise for each enemy.

[Rudra]

Like I said, I don't use Jacob's Ladder. That's a personal choice. So I don't how how easy or hard it is to hit multiple foes with it. Shadow Maul though? I have Dark Melee characters and never have any problems with hitting 2 or 3 foes, even without having to shift positions. So I don't understand the claim that Shadow Maul can't hit multiple foes. It has a 120 degree arc. Catching multiple foes with it is easy. (Now hitting those foes instead of missing? That can be a problem until I finally get some strong enhancements slotted.)

[Rudra]

6 hours ago, crimson72 said:

Triage beacon with traps is completely useless, I can't notice a difference when it's on or off.  It should be healing a certain amount per tick that scales with level or something, or a %HP amount per tick.

Triage Beacon boosts affected targets' regeneration. Unslotted, it grants +150% regeneration. Since this is regeneration and not a heal or a heal over time, there is no visual cue for the effect other than the green triangle and the green aura on the characters. As long as you have that green aura though? It is working. Not as fast as a heal or HoT, but still effective. (Edit: I usually put two Numina's Convalescence enhancements in mine. The Heal/RECH and the Heal/END/RECH ones. That pumps Triage Beacon up to +221.55% regeneration boost.)

Edited May 26, 2023 by Rudra

[Akisan]

30 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Like I said, I don't use Jacob's Ladder. That's a personal choice. So I don't how how easy or hard it is to hit multiple foes with it. Shadow Maul though? I have Dark Melee characters and never have any problems with hitting 2 or 3 foes, even without having to shift positions. So I don't understand the claim that Shadow Maul can't hit multiple foes. It has a 120 degree arc. Catching multiple foes with it is easy. (Now hitting those foes instead of missing? That can be a problem until I finally get some strong enhancements slotted.)

 

Did I miss a patch note?  I know I haven't played a Dark Melee in a while, but Shadow Maul's had this tiny, 40 degree arc since the beginning, and with its *long* animation, I don't bother hitting single targets with it.

[Rudra]

9 minutes ago, Akisan said:

 

Did I miss a patch note?  I know I haven't played a Dark Melee in a while, but Shadow Maul's had this tiny, 40 degree arc since the beginning, and with its *long* animation, I don't bother hitting single targets with it.

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=scrapper_melee.dark_melee.shadow_maul&at=scrapper

 

(Edit: I found no patch notes on paragonwiki that mentioned widening Shadow Maul's cone. Are you sure it used to be 40 degrees?)

 

Edit again:

Okay, changed here:

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Issue_26_Page_5

Even before the arc increase though, back on Live, I never had any noticeable problems hitting 3 targets with it.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Rudra

[Akisan]

Yep, missed a patch note, all the way back in March 2020 (Issue 26, page 5):

 

On 3/31/2020 at 7:38 AM, The Curator said:

Dark Melee

• Shadow Maul (Tanker, Scrapper, Brute, Stalker) is now a much larger, faster cone that's actually capable of easily hitting multiple targets - especially on tanks!
  • Arc increased from 45 to 120 degrees
  • Recharge increased from 8 to 11 seconds
  • Cast Time reduced from 3.07 to 2.35 seconds
  • Damage lowered from scale 2.156 to 1.6184
    • DPS reduction is minor, it has only been lowered from scale 0.653 to scale 0.645
  • Target Cap increased from 10 to 16 for Tankers
  • Target Cap increased from 5 to 10 for Scrappers, Brutes and Stalkers
• Dark Melee was under-performing in the AoE department. The aim of this change is to increase the AoE potential of the set whilst having minimal impact on the single target potential.

 

Something similar for Jacob's ladder could be useful, but Electric Melee's got other good AoE powers.

 

(I checked - the Dark/Dark scrapper I have hasn't been played in 1124 days... probably why I missed this patch note).

 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Akisan
Ninja'd! Thanks for the link though

[Rudra]

@Saiyajinzoningen, you posted confusion about my Triage Beacon post, so hopefully this helps clear things up.

 

@crimson72 commented that Triage Beacon was useless and could not tell the difference if it was doing anything or not. Since Triage Beacon is a +regeneration power and not a heal or HoT, it doesn't post the floating green numbers that normally indicate healing is going on. So to see if the power is affecting a given target without having to check their regeneration rate, you can check the floor indicator for the beacon's radius and you can check the target himself/herself/themselves (or itself for non-gendered characters like MM bots) to see if they are affected. Because it is a +regeneration effect instead of a straight healing effect, it works best on targets with large HP pools like Tankers and Brutes. Or with any /Regeneration character. It doesn't heal as fast as a true heal on squishier characters, but it does provide just enough bonus healing in the form of regeneration that it increases your likelihood of surviving difficult fights. Even my merc pets, which have the bad habit of dying very quickly, show amazing resilience when I keep them in the beacon's radius.

 

Now, am I going to complain if it was changed to a HoT instead of +regen'? No. However, I personally don't find it to be useless.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to remove comma between "characters" and "like". And again to remove unnecessary space.

[Luminara]

4 hours ago, squishy said:

Just to be clear, this is on a tank.

 

Gauntlet increases Jacob's Ladder's arc from 50 degrees to 75 degrees.  That's plenty.

 

4 hours ago, squishy said:

But a 7ft "cone", simply makes no sense.

 

Most melee cones are 7'.  Slice, Eviscerate, Shadow Maul, Sweeping Strike, One Thousand Cuts, Flashing Steel, Psi Blade Sweep, Proton Sweep, Shred, Ripper, Sweeping Cross, Cross Punch, Sands of Mu (prestige and temporary), to name some.  Outliers, such as Guarded Spin (Staff Fighting), Frost (Ice Melee) and Spinning Kick (Martial Assault), only have longer ranges because they're thematically appropriate.  Thematically, a Jacob's Ladder doesn't extend beyond the rods, so the power doesn't have a longer range than standard melee cone range.  That's not likely to change.

[squishy]

2 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Gauntlet increases Jacob's Ladder's arc from 50 degrees to 75 degrees.  That's plenty.

 

 

I'm afraid, It is not plenty.

Grab some mobs around you, the side mobs are at a 90 degrees angle from you. 70 degrees, is only 35 on each side of the mob you're attacking, keeping in mind that being a cone, the closer they are, the wider the angle needs to be to hit them.

I've just checked, and my power still says 50 degrees, despite gauntlet being on, but even if it is, it would not be enough regardless.

 

2 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

 

Most melee cones are 7'.  Slice, Eviscerate, Shadow Maul, Sweeping Strike, One Thousand Cuts, Flashing Steel, Psi Blade Sweep, Proton Sweep, Shred, Ripper, Sweeping Cross, Cross Punch, Sands of Mu (prestige and temporary), to name some.  Outliers, such as Guarded Spin (Staff Fighting), Frost (Ice Melee) and Spinning Kick (Martial Assault), only have longer ranges because they're thematically appropriate.  Thematically, a Jacob's Ladder doesn't extend beyond the rods, so the power doesn't have a longer range than standard melee cone range.  That's not likely to change.

 

Sure, theme is fine, but the power, is virtually useless. It's a game about super heroes, it's not meant to be realistic 🙂

Hell, if that's all it takes, rename the power arc lightening or whatever. ^_^

 

 

Please excuse the poor quality of the example, but I've only got paint on this machine, but here's roughly what the hit area for 7ft with a 70 degree angle is like in the game:

 

 

 

I'm hoping that once it's more visual, the issue would be more obvious. 

 

Remember that 70 degrees, only means 35 on each side of the targeted mob, minus the actual hit box of the mob with its collision area as well, with only 2 meters at the back (also with the mob's space and its collision space) , it really is not a lot I'm afraid 😞

 

I'm not even sure a 90 degree angle would make a big difference. It probably would add 2 mobs or so if they're at the back, maybe.

Now, consider the power's restriction '10 mobs max', to me it is clear it was thought of as an actual AOE kind of power, because there's simply no way you could get 10 mobs in such a small area, 4 at most if they literally walk/fly on each other.

 

I'll repeat it once more, cone powers, are simply not fit for melee attacks, it makes no sense whatsoever. Cones, needs both angle and a reasonable distance to be of any use, otherwise, you're literally farting in the air.

[Rudra]

When mobs move to flank you like that, you have to adjust to shift them back to your forward arc. Those three mobs can be kept in front of you. I make them do so regularly.  And when you get them back in your forward arc, that cone is wide enough to catch at least part of all their hit boxes. And that's all it takes, is the attack connecting with any part of their hit box.

 

Edit: Again though, I don't use Jacob's Ladder. I personally don't like it. I know others who swear by it though. I far prefer to skip it and just go straight to Thunderstrike, focusing on ST attacks until then. So even if the arc is widened, I will neither care nor use it. Conversely, if nothing is changed, I will still not care or use it.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Rudra

[squishy]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

When mobs move to flank you like that, you have to adjust to shift them back to your forward arc. Those three mobs can be kept in front of you. I make them do so regularly.  And when you get them back in your forward arc, that cone is wide enough to catch at least part of all their hit boxes. And that's all it takes, is the attack connecting with any part of their hit box.

 

Did you even look at the picture...? I stated multiple times, that it is possible to hit more than one mob with it, however, and I think you are missing the entire point here, the amount of time it takes, is simply rendering the power absolutely useless.

 

Power Type:Click Target Type:Enemies

Power Range:7.00 ft.

Effect Area:Cone -- 7.00 ft.

radius 50.00 degree arc (10 targets max)

Attack Types:AoE defense, energy defense

 

The power was clearly intended to be a mass attack of up to 10 target, which is absolutely impossible with such a narrow field of action and range.

 

Add to that the following: it is on a tank, you're not meant to be trying to place the mobs precisely. Moving the mobs, is the controller's job, well some controller's anyway 🙂

 

If you end up spending 5 or 6 seconds trying to align 3 or 4 mobs so you can get one shot, you're better off using 3 other powers in the meantime. Hence, the power become absolutely useless.

 

The tank's job is to aggro the mobs, and keep them around him. Placement and orientation on that class, should be kept to a minimum, simply because it makes no sense for that class and its function.

 

Once again: 

Cone... powers... makes... no.....sense....on melee. 

Cone powers, needs range to be of any use.

 

That power should either become a single target power, with spreading capabilities to nearby hostiles, or a much wider arc/AOE power.

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, squishy said:

Did you even look at the picture...?

Yes. That is why I was able to reference needing to re-position to get them back in your forward arc.

 

6 minutes ago, squishy said:

The power was clearly intended to be a mass attack of up to 10 target

I'm pretty sure the cap was raised to that point so that players would stop seeing what @Akisan saw where (s)he managed to group 6 targets but was only able to hit 5 because of the at time cap. Not because the expectation is that we will hit 10 targets whenever we use the power. I'm not sure that is the case, but I am reasonably confident it is.

 

8 minutes ago, squishy said:

Add to that the following: it is on a tank, you're not meant to be trying to place the mobs precisely. Moving the mobs, is the controller's job, well some controller's anyway

You look to be solo there, so I was commenting from a solo player's perspective. I play solo almost all the time. So I was giving some advice on how to deal with that situation and hit all three mobs.

 

9 minutes ago, squishy said:

The tank's job is to aggro the mobs, and keep them around him. Placement and orientation on that class, should be kept to a minimum, simply because it makes no sense for that class and its function.

I agree with that first line, when on a team. I disagree with the rest. Keeping mobs off your teammates is part of what a Tanker does. Positioning mobs is also part of what Tankers do.

 

10 minutes ago, squishy said:

Once again: 

Cone... powers... makes... no.....sense....on melee. 

Cone powers, needs range to be of any use.

That is your take on it. I understood that. Mine is not the same. Melee cone powers are the bulk of what I use to clear mobs en mass.

11 minutes ago, squishy said:

 

That power should either become a single target power,

I very much disagree with this part.

 

12 minutes ago, squishy said:

or a much wider arc/

And I've already stated I don't care if this part is implemented.

[Psyonico]

Yeah, you need to learn how to use melee cones.

[Luminara]

2 minutes ago, squishy said:

I'm afraid, It is not plenty

75 degrees feels like plenty to me.

 

 

Looks like plenty to me, too.

 

3 minutes ago, squishy said:

Sure, theme is fine, but the power, is virtually useless.

 

I have 42 veteran levels on that Shield/Elec tanker.  Jacob's Ladder is integral to my attack chain, and extremely functional, as evidenced in that screenshot I attached, so I'm going to have to disagree with that assessment.

 

4 minutes ago, squishy said:

Now, consider the power's restriction '10 mobs max', to me it is clear it was thought of as an actual AOE kind of power, because there's simply no way you could get 10 mobs in such a small area, 4 at most if they literally walk/fly on each other.

 

Jacob's Ladder's limit on all non-tanker archetypes is 5.  That's the standard target limit for melee cones.  Gauntlet, the tanker inherent, increases the target limit to 10, and it does so even if "it doesn't make sense".  The power itself wasn't designed or intended to be an "actual AoE kind of power" any more than any other melee cone, it was designed and intended to be used as a standard melee cone, with standard melee cone limitations.  7' range, 5 target limit, forward-facing limited arc.

 

18 minutes ago, squishy said:

cone powers, are simply not fit for melee attacks, it makes no sense whatsoever.

 

I disagree with that assessment, as well.  Melee cones follow very sensible design rules and standardization.  Restricting them to melee range keeps them usable without the confusion or irritation that would accompany having to move forward and backward when chained with single-target attacks.  Restricting their arcs (which, you should note, are typically much wider than ranged cone arcs) ensures that they fit their animations and remain within the bounds of the game's realism.  Restricting the number of targets they can affect ensures that other archetypes, such as blasters, are not obviated.  In every way, melee cones make sense to me, and I've studied the game's mechanics and design since Issue 3.

 

The more you post, the more I get the sense that your complaint is not that melee cones are too restricted, or "virtually useless", but that they don't automatically fill their target limitation.  That's a you problem, not a game problem.  We're expected to move around a bit and/or use other powers to maximize cone saturation.  That's never going to change.  If you want more out of your melee cones, it's your responsibility to do what's necessary.  Move a little to the left or right.  Aggro and run around a corner.  Use Fold Space (you can saturate your cone, regardless of size, with that power).  Hit the spawn with an AoE Immobilize when they're clumped up, so you can pick that perfect cone saturation spot at your leisure.  Or just don't use melee cones if they're that annoying for you.