Psi Melee Insight change (scrappers)

[Ananke]

The issue: Psionic Melee, unlike other sets, lacks a combo system or way of guaranteeing Insight, meaning that the damage is a random slot machine. This, compounded with the increase in psi resist, means that it's lagging behind other sets.

 

Proposed solutions:

 

Make it proc guaranteed off of TK blow, psi blade sweep, consumed by Greater Psi Blade, Psi Blade (with a special -res to psi resist when insight is consumed) and mass levitate as an AOE option, possibly with an additional effect.

Make it not require the Insight proccer to actually land. This might be more of a PVP change than a PVE one, but very necessary due to how defense sets play out which is 6mins of stalling with dodging/eluding/etc. This would give PM the ability to build a defense killer build. It's worth noting that this is how Energy Melee works already: Total Focus gives you Energy Focus whether you land it or not.

Rework Insight Lockout.

Replace boggle with something like rend armor that lowers psi resist.

 

This might still put it behind EM because of the double energy focus from crits, and behind sets like TW but I'm a little stumped on making a themed additional effect. Most mobs (and players) have high debuff resist, so the -rech doesn't do much. Currently, PM plays similarly to EM but is bafflingly worse.

[biostem]

What would be interesting would be to diverge from the typical build stacks/consume stacks mechanic and instead have them build up up automatically, then have all attacks consume said stacks.  So basically, you "cool off" to build up stacks in between fights, (perhaps allowing for even more stacks to accumulate), then using them up as you fight.  Concentration could instead replenish the stacks, and perhaps have a flat amount of added damage and tohit based upon said stacks, instead of the typical build-up effect...

[Biff Pow]

1 hour ago, Ananke said:

Replace boggle with something like rend armor that lowers psi resist.

Yikes, no. Boggle is awesome.

 

I think an easier "controlled" Insight would be just have Concentration automatically grant Insight.

 

 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

removing the lock-out is probably the simplest way to improve the DPS for psi melee

I don't use boggle myself but the whole jedi mind trick thing IS thematic

[Ananke]

On 9/15/2023 at 4:18 PM, biostem said:

What would be interesting would be to diverge from the typical build stacks/consume stacks mechanic and instead have them build up up automatically, then have all attacks consume said stacks.  So basically, you "cool off" to build up stacks in between fights, (perhaps allowing for even more stacks to accumulate), then using them up as you fight.  Concentration could instead replenish the stacks, and perhaps have a flat amount of added damage and tohit based upon said stacks, instead of the typical build-up effect...

 

Could be quite decent depending on the accuracy values. Would theoretically also hit through t9.

  

On 9/16/2023 at 5:50 AM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

removing the lock-out is probably the simplest way to improve the DPS for psi melee

I don't use boggle myself but the whole jedi mind trick thing IS thematic

 

Removing the lockout alone doesn't help an awful lot if it doesn't proc in the first place.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Ananke

[Glacier Peak]

Boggle gets me there when I want Insight added to the GSB smash. There was a helpful thread out there that explains the mechanic in detail, though I'm unable to find it at the moment. It gives percentages for the amount of Insight each power in the set provides, with a Boggled enemy allowing for a higher chance of Insight.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

i have no issue getting insight to proc,

the lockout makes that happen less often than id like

[A.I.D.A.]

The weird flow-break with Insight is that once it procs, you want to blow through the rest of your kit without touching Greater Psiblade until everything else is recharging. Everything benefits from insight, but only Greater Psiblade consumes it.

 

The answer would be to remove the lockout, but then also either (preferably) make every damaging Psi-Melee power consume your Insight buff, or (less favourably) reduce its duration to about 5 seconds (to account for finishing the animation of the power that procced it, with enough time left for about one activation afterward). If you were to only remove the lockout, then Insight essentially becomes a passive effect, as it will always re-proc before running out. It happens often enough to do that, usually right after the lockout wears off it's already back up.

 

If the Insight lockout were removed, and every damaging Psi-Melee power made to consume Insight, then Insight procs become a gameplay expression -- when it procs, what power do you spend it on, out of all the ones you can click? Do you use a couple ancillary attacks to fill your chain without consuming Insight, and wait for Greater Psiblade to recharge? etc.

[Ananke]

15 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

i have no issue getting insight to proc,

the lockout makes that happen less often than id like

 

Getting insight to proc depends on the situation. In PVP for instance, it ONLY procs if you actually land the hit, so I've gone up to 3 minutes before with no insight procs. It's absolutely wild, considering no other set seems to work this way at all. Others have it guaranteed, baked into their rotation on demand.

50 minutes ago, A.I.D.A. said:

The weird flow-break with Insight is that once it procs, you want to blow through the rest of your kit without touching Greater Psiblade until everything else is recharging. Everything benefits from insight, but only Greater Psiblade consumes it.

 

52 minutes ago, A.I.D.A. said:

If the Insight lockout were removed, and every damaging Psi-Melee power made to consume Insight, then Insight procs become a gameplay expression -- when it procs, what power do you spend it on, out of all the ones you can click? Do you use a couple ancillary attacks to fill your chain without consuming Insight, and wait for Greater Psiblade to recharge? etc.

 

This is also true, and I like it a lot! I just figured that shuffling with that stuff would make them more reluctant to looking at PM, since at that point it becomes more of a full revamp request than a couple of tweaks, while a bunch of the elemental sets are arguably more in need of tuning.

 

17 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

It gives percentages for the amount of Insight each power in the set provides, with a Boggled enemy allowing for a higher chance of Insight.

Having a whole filler ability to increase the odds of proccing something other sets get as a matter of course is still very weird, and doesn't work for PVP at all. The hit has to actually land, so TK blow, sweep (and psi blade, tho we only use that for filler, really) need to hit through defense t9s to even possibly proc insight. Adding an ability into a build which doesn't even guarantee it would proc wouldn't help.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

 

3 minutes ago, Ananke said:

 

Getting insight to proc depends on the situation. In PVP for instance, it ONLY procs if you actually land the hit, so I've gone up to 3 minutes before with no insight procs. It's absolutely wild, considering no other set seems to work this way at all. Others have it guaranteed, baked into their rotation on demand.

 

This is news to me.

I don't pvp so I wasn't aware this was an issue.

I apologize for my ignorance.

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Ananke said:

Getting insight to proc depends on the situation. In PVP for instance, it ONLY procs if you actually land the hit, so I've gone up to 3 minutes before with no insight procs. It's absolutely wild, considering no other set seems to work this way at all. Others have it guaranteed, baked into their rotation on demand.

*cough* Contamination *cough*

 

(Edit: Yes, Contamination can spread from an affected target to adjacent non-affected targets, but I can't count how many fights I've gone through, even back-to-back, where Contamination never affected anything. Which is annoying when my health is dropping and I can't use Radiation Siphon to heal until a target is affected by it.)

Edited September 18, 2023 by Rudra

[kelika2]

Water Blast got its lockout timer ability removed and improved quite a bit.  Hope it happens for psi melee/savage melee at some point

[Glacier Peak]

4 hours ago, Ananke said:

 

Getting insight to proc depends on the situation. In PVP for instance, it ONLY procs if you actually land the hit, so I've gone up to 3 minutes before with no insight procs. It's absolutely wild, considering no other set seems to work this way at all. Others have it guaranteed, baked into their rotation on demand.

 

 

This is also true, and I like it a lot! I just figured that shuffling with that stuff would make them more reluctant to looking at PM, since at that point it becomes more of a full revamp request than a couple of tweaks, while a bunch of the elemental sets are arguably more in need of tuning.

 

Having a whole filler ability to increase the odds of proccing something other sets get as a matter of course is still very weird, and doesn't work for PVP at all. The hit has to actually land, so TK blow, sweep (and psi blade, tho we only use that for filler, really) need to hit through defense t9s to even possibly proc insight. Adding an ability into a build which doesn't even guarantee it would proc wouldn't help.

What sets build "thing" without landing a blow? Tidal force doesn't build unless the attack lands. Fighting combo doesn't build unless attack lands. Seismicity doesn't... etc. That's an apple to orange comparison if you're trying to make one. Psi Melee is certainly unique with regards to mechanic. And I get where you're coming from when you bring up PvP mechanics, but it's gotta be holistic across the game, when discussing set wide changes. 

[Glacier Peak]

Here's the link to the link to the page I was referring to in my earlier post. 

 

 

 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

4 hours ago, kelika2 said:

Water Blast got its lockout timer ability removed and improved quite a bit.  Hope it happens for psi melee/savage melee at some point

 

water had a lockout?

wow now I'm seriously jealous.

[kelika2]

57 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

 

water had a lockout?

wow now I'm seriously jealous.

Water Jet.  use it with 3 stacks and it recharged itself instantly.  that recharge had a lockout of like 8 or 10 seconds i cant remember

now its just spewspew