Assumptions persisting about MM commands

[Fireknight013]

I have noticed in the last few days that people still have an idea of MM commands that I thought people would understand by now, but maybe that's just because some are either new or new at playing MM's.

 

Pet commands are an active command, not passive.  I had someone ask me today if my pets were "Set to attack (my) target"  I let the comment slide because I thought maybe they just meant in general, but we were going on a DFB, and discussing badge run on the Vahl boss and I realized they honestly thought you set your pets on "attack my target" and the pets would only attack what you target.]

 

First of all, this is impractical for me, because unlike many who can't stand it, I use Tab to target enemies over 60% of the time unless I'm picking a specific target.  This would make my pets attack every target in a group before settling on what I actually wanted them to target. I decided to test the idea of "set and go" to see how the pets reacted. This made me think some people think MM is a "set pets and done" type of archetype.  but many times after zoning, pets go into passive mode, which completely obliterates that idea to begin with.  So I set my pets to aggressive and attack my target, and then I walked up to a group of hellions and selected the Lt.  there were two minions between me and the Lt.  Bots as they were, attacked the nearest target to them, the minions.  I then pressed "Attack my target" in my tray, and low and behold, they did as commanded.

 

I'm not trying to be in any way sarcastic or demeaning about this issue to people who don't play the MM arch, or even to new players who are still not understanding the arch.

 

If you're a Mastermind, and you're not actively commanding your pets throughout a battle, what are you doing?  Because you're not controlling your primary means of attack and defense.  Don't get me wrong, since we just got off of ToT, I have seen plenty of instances where a MM pet just set on aggressive can be effective.  When enemies are everywhere, who cares that one of your minions is just popping away at a zombie instead of concentrating firepower on the Arisen Mummy.....unless that Arisen is attacking me, that is.

 

But pet commands are not passive "set and be done" type of commands.  It is an active powerset, that yes, people can AFK during ToT and still have an impact.  But when you're on a team doing missions, especially during Boss fights that spawn more minions, it is pretty imperative to control your pets, using the "attack my target", "follow", and passive "heel" commands.

I also encourage anyone new to playing a MM to please do yourself a favor and set your options at the top of your pets window to advanced mode.  Unless you've just gotten used to the simplified version, this opens up a wider range of abilities for your pets like "stay" and "Go to" and setting a location, so your pets move ahead of you around a corner with a lot of enemies to take the alpha strike, as well as other commands from the drop down.

I guess I just really wanted to post this so people who don't know, will stop thinking pets are supposed to just follow you around and automatically know what you want them to do.  Which is ironically the problem with leadership in real life these days....but I digress.

[Riverdusk]

Last time commanding MM pets came up in help channel for me I saw several MM's respond, "I just never leave bodyguard mode ever".  So yes, many seem to just let them do whatever. If that works for them I wasn't going to say anything, but I can't imagine not at least sometimes directing them.  I guess not leaving bodyguard mode does still leave the use of "goto" and "stay" commands, but somehow I doubt they use those either from how they were talking.  

 

Anyway, for DFB badge runs though honestly I'll usually just dismiss the pets for that "no AoE's" part as I don't want to accidently do anything to mess it up or get blamed for it even if I didn't mess it up, and it tends to make my teammates feel better.

 

 

[gameboy1234]

2 hours ago, Fireknight013 said:

This would make my pets attack every target in a group before settling on what I actually wanted them to target.

 

I don't think this is correct.  Maybe just stated poorly, but the pets do not attack whichever target you have tabbed over at the moment.  You tab to the target you want, then command them to attack *THAT* target.  Then they do.  But maybe that's what you had meant.

 

1 hour ago, Riverdusk said:

So yes, many seem to just let them do whatever.

 

A lot of the time this works, but it can also fail.  I tend to have a sub set of my pets set on a macro or bind, so I can focus them on one target while still keeping at least part of bodyguard mode with the remaining pets.  This seems to work well.  If you let the pets attack whatever, they often don't focus down particular enemies, and those enemies do as much damage at 1 hit point as they do at full, so it's best to be certain to remove enemies completely so they stop doing damage, to you and your pets.

 

Some exceptions are pets with strong AOE.  If the AoE will quickly kill most of the low level enemies, then you can just rely on that to take out most of a spawn and you won't take much damage doing it.

 

1 hour ago, Riverdusk said:

Anyway, for DFB badge runs though honestly I'll usually just dismiss the pets for that "no AoE's"

 

Yup, totally the safest way of doing it.  Some pets have no AoE at low level, but teammates might not know this.  Just use your own attacks, folks will be happier.

 

[Fireknight013]

5 hours ago, Riverdusk said:

Last time commanding MM pets came up in help channel for me I saw several MM's respond, "I just never leave bodyguard mode ever".  So yes, many seem to just let them do whatever. If that works for them I wasn't going to say anything, but I can't imagine not at least sometimes directing them.  I guess not leaving bodyguard mode does still leave the use of "goto" and "stay" commands, but somehow I doubt they use those either from how they were talking.  

 

Anyway, for DFB badge runs though honestly I'll usually just dismiss the pets for that "no AoE's" part as I don't want to accidently do anything to mess it up or get blamed for it even if I didn't mess it up, and it tends to make my teammates feel better.

 

 

That's what I do, and did was I dismissed the pets.  LOL  I just didn't tell the team so they wouldn't try to tell me again to "Put them on Attack my target" 😄

[Fireknight013]

3 hours ago, gameboy1234 said:

 

I don't think this is correct.  Maybe just stated poorly, but the pets do not attack whichever target you have tabbed over at the moment.  You tab to the target you want, then command them to attack *THAT* target.  Then they do.  But maybe that's what you had meant.

 

It is not correct, that's the point of what I was saying.  That it was impractical if that WERE the case.  it isn't.

[biostem]

I use an "attack defensive" macro to command my pets to attack only what I want.  I also use lalt+lbutton to issue a move-passive command so my pets go exactly where I want and do not attack under any circumstances.   That being said, unless you are using your pets as the front-liners, it can be sufficient to send them in and issue an offensive-attack commands, so they can do their thing and you can focus on your secondary.  What's crucial, though, is to be hyper aware of what you and your team's goals are and not just fall back to letting your pets run wild at all times...

[Crysis]

Lots of control macro sets available.  I love @Sandolphan’s myself.  I even carry a small bluetooth keypad with me just to play MM’s with those binds.  
 

its so easy to just go from defensive, to aggressive, to attack my target.  Its become second nature for me.

[tidge]

18 hours ago, Fireknight013 said:

If you're a Mastermind, and you're not actively commanding your pets throughout a battle, what are you doing?  Because you're not controlling your primary means of attack and defense.  Don't get me wrong, since we just got off of ToT, I have seen plenty of instances where a MM pet just set on aggressive can be effective.  When enemies are everywhere, who cares that one of your minions is just popping away at a zombie instead of concentrating firepower on the Arisen Mummy.....unless that Arisen is attacking me, that is.

 

I have my own peeve about calling henchmen (which can be controlled) pets (which cannot be controlled like henchmen) 🙂

 

I'm dropping traps, debuffing the hard targets, and casting AoE at those x8 spawns, or to draw more aggro to me. Basically: I'm usually facing so many different enemies at once that directing the henchmen at specific targets would be inefficient.

 

My MMs will leave bodyguard mode, but only when:

• An enemy has run away and I want it chased down... 'attack my target' (either the T1s or T2s get this job)
• I'm fighting large spawns of even-con scrubs... because I am so far past the 'defense softcap'.... 'aggressive mode'
• I need some fraction of the henchmen to take the alpha strike... 'attack my target'
• When I'm facing multiple AV/GMs at once, I will usually try to make sure that fire is being focused on only one of the enemies at a time. Often I have to do this through repositioning the henchmen, because dropping out of bodyguard mode can be dangerous... 'goto' or directing the T3 only to focus on 'attack my target'.

[Fireknight013]

4 hours ago, tidge said:

 

I have my own peeve about calling henchmen (which can be controlled) pets (which cannot be controlled like henchmen) 🙂

 

I'm dropping traps, debuffing the hard targets, and casting AoE at those x8 spawns, or to draw more aggro to me. Basically: I'm usually facing so many different enemies at once that directing the henchmen at specific targets would be inefficient.

 

My MMs will leave bodyguard mode, but only when:

• An enemy has run away and I want it chased down... 'attack my target' (either the T1s or T2s get this job)
• I'm fighting large spawns of even-con scrubs... because I am so far past the 'defense softcap'.... 'aggressive mode'
• I need some fraction of the henchmen to take the alpha strike... 'attack my target'
• When I'm facing multiple AV/GMs at once, I will usually try to make sure that fire is being focused on only one of the enemies at a time. Often I have to do this through repositioning the henchmen, because dropping out of bodyguard mode can be dangerous... 'goto' or directing the T3 only to focus on 'attack my target'.

That is a tactic, and a level of control different from what I referred to.  It certainly isn't my play style, but I respect it as you have control of the pets and are working through the tactics of what you're doing.  So even if it wouldn't be the way I play a MM, it's a play style and tactic that I respect, and appreciate.

When I said what I said, it was with the idea that a MM sets their pets to a specific function and doesn't control them, or expects them to perform in a way that is not the way the AI is set up.

My position on why I don't play the way you do is that don't slot health or endurance until later in game, because I use my pets as the fodder.  Especially when I'm playing a MM with primarily H2H pets, like zombies.  But then again, I'm the MM that people don't think I do anything because I'm so busy controlling my pets and using passive or active toggle powers to defend my pets and my team that I often don't use direct attack powers.  I rarely ever take the AR or PR attacks when I'm using Merc and Bots respectively.  Mostly because the impact of that single attack is so minor compared to the sheer amount of an all out first strike from my 6 pets on the same target, that I would rather pump my pets full of ACC and DAM enhancements and have them go to town on the enemy while I /em evillaugh.  LOL

[Clave Dark 5]

On 11/3/2023 at 12:19 PM, Fireknight013 said:

but many times after zoning, pets go into passive mode

Somewhat off topic, but I don't play MMs much and just rebuilt one and have been seeing this a LOT.  Best I way I know to get rid of it I quickly is click a "Goto Attack" spot and then reset into Bodyguard or Attack My Target as needed (yes, I do tend to move them around a bit).  Is that the best way to get past this problem, or is there something else I haven't thought of?

[Force Redux]

Never bothered with Sandolphin's binds and I have well behaved pets, anyhow. Even ninjas  who love to chase things. I've managed to melee joust on the Apex TF fight with Battle Maiden's blue pools of death with Beasts no less, and no pet death, so simple can be effective with practice. After years of play, it's muscle memory for me. If I can do it, anyone can, I'm not that stellar, just practiced.

 

I keep only six MM  command macros:

 

All pets attack (C)

All pets goto (V)

All pets follow (B)

------

All pets Aggressive (ctr+C)

All pets Defensive (ctr+V)

All pets Passive (ctr+B)

 

That's it. When I zone pets reset to defensive. I keep them leashed until we get started, then on aggressive.  I typically keep them on aggressive to maintain uptime on attacks while I sic them on the next target. I will change to defensive or passive depending on need though.

[Nemu]

On 12/2/2023 at 7:42 PM, Force Redux said:

Never bothered with Sandolphin's binds and I have well behaved pets, anyhow. Even ninjas  who love to chase things. I've managed to melee joust on the Apex TF fight with Battle Maiden's blue pools of death with Beasts no less, and no pet death, so simple can be effective with practice. After years of play, it's muscle memory for me. If I can do it, anyone can, I'm not that stellar, just practiced.

 

I keep only six MM  command macros:

 

All pets attack (C)

All pets goto (V)

All pets follow (B)

------

All pets Aggressive (ctr+C)

All pets Defensive (ctr+V)

All pets Passive (ctr+B)

 

That's it. When I zone pets reset to defensive. I keep them leashed until we get started, then on aggressive.  I typically keep them on aggressive to maintain uptime on attacks while I sic them on the next target. I will change to defensive or passive depending on need though.

Yep, Sandolphin's binds are overly complicated imo, it's a technical showcase of what you can do with binds but in no way practical. Of those 6 binds you listed, I don't even use petcomall aggressive and petcomall passive (If I really need them passive then most likely I'm stealthing and I'd dismiss them instead). I find focusing fire to be the most efficient so instead of petcomall aggressive I just string petcomall attack target to one of my MM personal attacks. I also string petcomall defensive follow to sprint.

[Nemu]

On 11/3/2023 at 2:19 PM, Fireknight013 said:

I guess I just really wanted to post this so people who don't know, will stop thinking pets are supposed to just follow you around and automatically know what you want them to do.  Which is ironically the problem with leadership in real life these days....but I digress.

There are a lot of MM players that just summoned the henchmen and let them do whatever without ever issuing them commands when MMs were first introduced. I still see those players today. The other day I met one that summoned the henchmen and immediately put on Personal Force Field and then ran those henchmen around aggroing stuff. Works ok for lower levels but he's going to be in a for a rude awakening when he gets to higher levels and more dangerous mobs.