Enemies Autohit

[Akisan]

20 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Hmm.

 

No. Here's why...

 

No?  No?!  What do you mean "No"!?  OP didn't even suggest that autohit powers even be removed.  Any suggestions to that effect in this thread have been half-hearted at best, and if anything, the only thing I'd want is for the autohit rule/pattern to be consistently followed - Location based AoE debuffs like Earthquake, Sonic Grenade, or Super Stunner Rezzes being autohit, and ST Mezzes (Scramble Thoughts) should *definitely* have to-hit checks (seriously, right now it's just a penalty for being a squishy)

 

20 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

We can play on 0/0, even if they can auto hit, they are still auto hitting kittens.

 

Even if they can auto hit, the game is ridiculously easy to begin with.

 

We don't have to even play arachnos. Or freakshow. Or crey. Or anything, we can council it to 50.

 

We can team, this compensates for possible holes in AT. We are playing an MMo, after all 😄

 

One person's spoilt milk is another's cottage cheese. Maybe there are people that appreciate the nuance?

 

Normally wouldn't call this out, but that's really elitist.  Not all of us play at upper difficulties.  Not all of us want to (or can) team.  Having to stay away from certain common enemy groups because they're imbalanced is obnoxious on a good day.  Being told to do those things is quite insulting, especially under the guise of "the game's too easy anyways".  I know that I don't appreciate the feeling that I'm somehow less of a player, simply because I can't effortlessly clear harder content.

 

And while I'm at it - It's incredibly frustrating to get fixes and QoL stuff constantly heckled and vetoed "because the game's already too easy", especially since threads to create optional difficulty bumps for normal content keep getting shot down.   -*sigh*-   I know several different people on both sides are involved in that mess, but still...

 

 

(Oh, and by the way - spoiled milk and cottage cheese are both gross.  Along with sour cream.)

[Rudra]

22 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Hmm.

 

No. Here's why...

 

We can play on 0/0, even if they can auto hit, they are still auto hitting kittens.

 

Even if they can auto hit, the game is ridiculously easy to begin with.

 

We don't have to even play arachnos. Or freakshow. Or crey. Or anything, we can council it to 50.

 

We can team, this compensates for possible holes in AT. We are playing an MMo, after all 😄

 

One person's spoilt milk is another's cottage cheese. Maybe there are people that appreciate the nuance?

@SwitchFade, I have to agree with @Akisan on this. Telling players to avoid Arachnos (who you can fight starting in Atlas Park as a new character and are available at every stage of character progression in the game, becoming progressively more common as you level up since they are the principle bad guy faction in the game), Freakshow (who form the majority of the missions I've seen recently starting at level 20, way outnumbering Warrior and Tsoo missions combined in my experience), and Crey (who are available at all times starting from level 30) doesn't make much sense to me. Those are the main groups you encounter blue side for their repsective areas/level ranges in my experience. So you are basically telling players to not do the story arcs, just do paper missions and cycle them until you get a Council mission to run. Or are you telling players to join a Council farm and just get to level 50 that way? Bear in mind, at least in my experience, Council are only available in a couple missions pre-level 10, maybe even pre-level 20. So the only way I know to just encounter Council is to go to AE and farm them or find a Council farm and join it.

 

I don't have any comments about the team part though. As someone that typically avoids teaming, I understand that means my character with my chosen AT's power sets' strengths and weaknesses, some groups are going to be harder than others to fight. Price to be paid for playing solo.

 

Look, no one is saying to get rid of autohit powers. They have a purpose. The perception being addressed by the OP is that autohit powers are becoming more and more common. High accuracy powers are a good thing, yes, but a plethora of autohit powers is not. Autohit powers should be made sparingly. And there are autohit powers that make no sense when you look at the same power as used by mobs in the same faction (like Arachnos) that are not autohit powers. That is the OP's complaint. Not that autohit powers are bad and should be removed, but that autohit powers are seemingly increasing in proportion to standard attack powers and the difficulties that creates for defense-focused characters. Especially since until you can get enough IO set bonuses and maybe Incarnate powers, your typical high defense character can't take a hit. (At least mine couldn't.) Even at +0/x0. Especially if pre-level 30 or so.

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

@SwitchFade, I have to agree with @Akisan on this. Telling players to avoid Arachnos (who you can fight starting in Atlas Park as a new character and are available at every stage of character progression in the game, becoming progressively more common as you level up since they are the principle bad guy faction in the game), Freakshow (who form the majority of the missions I've seen recently starting at level 20, way outnumbering Warrior and Tsoo missions combined in my experience), and Crey (who are available at all times starting from level 30) doesn't make much sense to me. Those are the main groups you encounter blue side for their repsective areas/level ranges in my experience. So you are basically telling players to not do the story arcs, just do paper missions and cycle them until you get a Council mission to run. Or are you telling players to join a Council farm and just get to level 50 that way? Bear in mind, at least in my experience, Council are only available in a couple missions pre-level 10, maybe even pre-level 20. So the only way I know to just encounter Council is to go to AE and farm them or find a Council farm and join it.

 

I don't have any comments about the team part though. As someone that typically avoids teaming, I understand that means my character with my chosen AT's power sets' strengths and weaknesses, some groups are going to be harder than others to fight. Price to be paid for playing solo.

 

Look, no one is saying to get rid of autohit powers. They have a purpose. The perception being addressed by the OP is that autohit powers are becoming more and more common. High accuracy powers are a good thing, yes, but a plethora of autohit powers is not. Autohit powers should be made sparingly. And there are autohit powers that make no sense when you look at the same power as used by mobs in the same faction (like Arachnos) that are not autohit powers. That is the OP's complaint. Not that autohit powers are bad and should be removed, but that autohit powers are seemingly increasing in proportion to standard attack powers and the difficulties that creates for defense-focused characters. Especially since until you can get enough IO set bonuses and maybe Incarnate powers, your typical high defense character can't take a hit. (At least mine couldn't.) Even at +0/x0. Especially if pre-level 30 or so.

I didn't tell players to avoid arachnos, I believe I said, we are able to.

 

It was one of several possible possibilities of how to avoid the possible perceived negative impact of auto hit. Say that six times fast 🤣 

 

I've played all that content on an SO only build and auto hit isn't an issue, from the perspective of others, like me.

 

Some people like the way it is structured. Just saying.

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, Akisan said:

 

No?  No?!  What do you mean "No"!?  OP didn't even suggest that autohit powers even be removed.  Any suggestions to that effect in this thread have been half-hearted at best, and if anything, the only thing I'd want is for the autohit rule/pattern to be consistently followed - Location based AoE debuffs like Earthquake, Sonic Grenade, or Super Stunner Rezzes being autohit, and ST Mezzes (Scramble Thoughts) should *definitely* have to-hit checks (seriously, right now it's just a penalty for being a squishy)

 

 

Normally wouldn't call this out, but that's really elitist.  Not all of us play at upper difficulties.  Not all of us want to (or can) team.  Having to stay away from certain common enemy groups because they're imbalanced is obnoxious on a good day.  Being told to do those things is quite insulting, especially under the guise of "the game's too easy anyways".  I know that I don't appreciate the feeling that I'm somehow less of a player, simply because I can't effortlessly clear harder content.

 

And while I'm at it - It's incredibly frustrating to get fixes and QoL stuff constantly heckled and vetoed "because the game's already too easy", especially since threads to create optional difficulty bumps for normal content keep getting shot down.   -*sigh*-   I know several different people on both sides are involved in that mess, but still...

 

 

(Oh, and by the way - spoiled milk and cottage cheese are both gross.  Along with sour cream.)

That's pretty close to building a whole straw man. I'm very certain I didn't recommend any of this or direct anything you're saying.

 

I did suggested that there are many possible ways to play and that auto hit is only an issue by choice, really 

 

Cottage cheese may be gross to some, but hagas is tasty to others.

 

Oh, you asked what I meant by no... Well, no means no  😄😄

[TimesSeven]

On 11/12/2023 at 10:15 PM, Sakura Tenshi said:

Meanwhile, there's only a handful of powers that completely ignore your resistances. One being the crystal titan and I think Tyrant in the Mage trial's Hammer of Justice is another. (or is his called 'Fist of Tyranny' like Reichsman?)

 

Yes, I'd like to see this... a few enemy NPC's who can completely ignore your resistances -- and lower them to absolute zero, just like you can lower defense to negative numbers. But if you did that, people would have cows.  Everyone complains that the game is too easy until a single person in a mob can reduce your resistance to zero, then it's cats and dogs living together... MASS HYSTERIA. 

 

I'm really shocked how we can be fine with dropping defense in (nearly) every single mob there is, but we don't do the same to resistance -- especially with everyone saying how easy the game is.  I could EASILY put together an AE mission that could crush most players. Let's see more mobs with trick arrow or traps for their secondaries -- and not just TFs/SFs.... regular mobs. 

 

I agree with another poster (sorry, I forgot your name), we should add more leadership abilities to the mobs instead of cheating the rules with an auto-hit.  It's like putting a band-aid over a bullet wound to solve a problem (cough... streakbreaker... cough)

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by TimesSeven

[Sakura Tenshi]

@TimesSeven

I mean, in fairness, right now the Aeon SF even on minimal difficulty can still have -res fields stack up so high I got three tiers of the 'damage received' badge on a tanker I ran on it. Which means my resistance was so badly floored I was apparently getting smacked for millions of HP in damage.

[TimesSeven]

18 hours ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

@TimesSeven

I mean, in fairness, right now the Aeon SF even on minimal difficulty can still have -res fields stack up so high I got three tiers of the 'damage received' badge on a tanker I ran on it. Which means my resistance was so badly floored I was apparently getting smacked for millions of HP in damage.

 

That's true, but you can find enemies that reduce defense in just about every mob you come across now. Anything with lethal or psychic damage reduces defense -- that includes swords, bullets, illusion, radiation, and some psychic. Just about EVERY group of villains has something to this level.  How often do you run across something that reduces resistance? Not every. Some groups like Longbow and Malta, but not often. 

 

You don't even get large groups that attack Endurance as much as defense.  In fact, Confuse was scarcely found in the game until the Succubus and Mot. 

 

My point is that if autohit was put in the game to make it more challenging, you'd think that -res should be put in as well.  If indeed these cheat abilities are given because the NPC's are just "lines of code" I can think of PLENTY of ways to give them an edge to make the gameplay harder. I absolutely believe the 95% cap on hitting is due to a misplaced attempt to make the game more challenging.  

[Uun]

13 hours ago, TimesSeven said:

Anything with lethal or psychic damage reduces defense -- that includes swords, bullets, illusion, radiation, and some psychic.

Psychic Blast, Mind Control and Illusion attacks do not debuff defense. There are some Mind Control and Illusion attacks that are coded as typed only without positional vectors and ignore ranged/melee/AoE defense.

[TimesSeven]

4 hours ago, Uun said:

Psychic Blast, Mind Control and Illusion attacks do not debuff defense. There are some Mind Control and Illusion attacks that are coded as typed only without positional vectors and ignore ranged/melee/AoE defense.

 

Absolutely correct, thanks. That brings us back to the autohit function which ignores defense. That kinda stinks. 

 

Thanks. 

[Uun]

2 hours ago, TimesSeven said:

 

Absolutely correct, thanks. That brings us back to the autohit function which ignores defense. That kinda stinks. 

 

Thanks. 

They're not autohit. They have the same chance to hit/miss as any other attack. They just disregard positional defense. Typed defense works fine against them.

[TimesSeven]

41 minutes ago, Uun said:

They're not autohit. They have the same chance to hit/miss as any other attack. They just disregard positional defense. Typed defense works fine against them.

 

Oh, didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up. 

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, TimesSeven said:

 

Absolutely correct, thanks. That brings us back to the autohit function which ignores defense. That kinda stinks. 

 

Thanks. 

 

53 minutes ago, Uun said:

They're not autohit. They have the same chance to hit/miss as any other attack. They just disregard positional defense. Typed defense works fine against them.

Going to go out on a limb here and say that @TimesSeven had shifted from the psychic attacks back to the root discussion of autohit attacks. I may be wrong, and probably am, but that is my read on the situation. And autohit attacks do exist. (And seem to be becoming more prevalent. Not saying they are, just saying it looks that way to me.)

[Clave Dark 5]

On 11/17/2023 at 9:31 PM, Sakura Tenshi said:

@TimesSeven

I mean, in fairness, right now the Aeon SF even on minimal difficulty can still have -res fields stack up so high I got three tiers of the 'damage received' badge on a tanker I ran on it. Which means my resistance was so badly floored I was apparently getting smacked for millions of HP in damage.

You still managed to finish it though, right?  And people still play the Aeon SF don't they?   😃

 

I'm not trying to snark off at you but again: isn't this game already easy enough?  Must we be able to bumble through everything without getting our tights scuffed?

[Akisan]

4 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I'm not trying to snark off at you but again: isn't this game already easy enough?  Must we be able to bumble through everything without getting our tights scuffed?

 

Nobody'd make any influence blueside if we had to pay to clean/repair our costumes.  Half the missions are in the sewers! (That, or in one of the many blue caves...)  Of course, having full impervium costumes does explain how insanely high Icon bills are at 50...

 

Really though, the base game may be easy enough, but QoL fixes are still nice to have.  Hopefully, we'll also get a few optional ways to bump the difficulty of our everyday missions (like harder enemy AI/powers) without sacrificing rewards, but stuff like the Hardmode TFs will have to do for now.

[MoisesG]

Just nerf Regen and problem fixed 🙂

[TimesSeven]

15 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

 

I'm not trying to snark off at you but again: isn't this game already easy enough?  Must we be able to bumble through everything without getting our tights scuffed?

The devs keep this game easy for a reason… it’s because most people like it that way. Every time they make the game harder people complain. 
 

Remember unlimited taunt? One tank could taunt and entire map? Nerfed it and people complained. Enhancement diversification? More complaining. Soft caps and hard caps? More complaining. The all psychic Penelope Mayhem missions? Enemies with streak breakers? I remember the first few weeks of AE when people fought defenseless, non moving, non attacking blobs. You could go from 1 - 50 in two hours.  Each time, the devs made it harder, more people complained. 
 

It would be a cakewalk to make a new group of enemies that could FLATTEN most players, teams, and leagues. I can’t remember the last time a league failed an incarnate mission or a TF. Even Hami is routine now. 

 

Personally, I’d love an excruciatingly hard league fight… one where even an advanced team would be challenged, but it would never get played. People playing like the easy games. 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

29 minutes ago, TimesSeven said:

The devs keep this game easy for a reason… it’s because most people like it that way. Every time they make the game harder people complain. 
 

Remember unlimited taunt? One tank could taunt and entire map? Nerfed it and people complained. Enhancement diversification? More complaining. Soft caps and hard caps? More complaining. The all psychic Penelope Mayhem missions? Enemies with streak breakers? I remember the first few weeks of AE when people fought defenseless, non moving, non attacking blobs. You could go from 1 - 50 in two hours.  Each time, the devs made it harder, more people complained. 
 

It would be a cakewalk to make a new group of enemies that could FLATTEN most players, teams, and leagues. I can’t remember the last time a league failed an incarnate mission or a TF. Even Hami is routine now. 

 

Personally, I’d love an excruciatingly hard league fight… one where even an advanced team would be challenged, but it would never get played. People playing like the easy games. 

 

Long ago and far away. I was a hardcore gamer. I put the games on the toughest difficulty and tore it up.

 

Dante must die mode? a walk in the park

demon's souls? A delight

ninja gaiden? More like a garden

TMNT for NES. Yeah right, even I'm not that crazy

 

Now I am an old man.

My hands are stiff. 

My joints ache.

My reflexes are shot. 

My vision is poor.

Where was i going with this?

oh right, even my memory is horrible (I gotta check the map like every 90 seconds 😞 )

It isn't all I want is easy, easy is all I can handle.

 

If the game gets harder. I will play

If the game gets easier. I will play

If the game stays the same. I will play

I am not for or against change. I'm for COH

CoH yesterday, CoH today, CoH tomorrow, CoH forever.

 

err sorry, at my age I tend to ramble.

IF we got 1 power to autohit. Just ONE

I would vote for it to be coming out of stealth long animation assassins strike.

cause its very annoying after using buildup and then waiting and then............whiff

 

[Uun]

1 hour ago, TimesSeven said:

Personally, I’d love an excruciatingly hard league fight… one where even an advanced team would be challenged, but it would never get played. People playing like the easy games. 

You want hard? Try this:

 

 

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

TMNT for NES. Yeah right, even I'm not that crazy

I loved this line most of all. 🤣

[TimesSeven]

3 hours ago, Uun said:

You want hard? Try this:

 

 

You are my new best friend!  ❤️❤️. I’ve played some in-soloable missions before, but because the SF had FOUR AV’s that attacked as a group and couldn’t be divided, OR the task force in Wharf with the unstoppable GM at the end. Those we tough. 
 

Hate everyone saying how “easy the game is.” 

[Rudra]

23 minutes ago, TimesSeven said:

because the SF had FOUR AV’s that attacked as a group and couldn’t be divided,

If you are talking about the Ms. Liberty TF (formerly the Statesman TF) where you fight Ghost Widow, Scirocco, Captain Mako, and Black Scorpion at the same time, then those AVs actually can be split up. You have to be careful, and it helps to use Scrapper Confront to do so (or any other ST attack that can be leveraged from max range to get the attention of one of the AVs), but it can be done. I've been on multiple runs where we split them up. (The trickier one is trying to split up the Freedom Phalanx at the end of the Lord Recluse SF.) (Edit: Make sure none of the other AVs can see the trigger player or the team. Stay at max range possible and immediately break LoS. It's hit or miss for working, but it can work.) (Edit again: The downside of Confront for that is the range since its normal range is 70 feet. The upside is that the Scrapper can usually survive and get out of the way when the hate comes back.)

Edited November 21, 2023 by Rudra

[TimesSeven]

9 minutes ago, Rudra said:

If you are talking about the Ms. Liberty TF (formerly the Statesman TF) where you fight Ghost Widow, Scirocco, Captain Mako, and Black Scorpion at the same time, then those AVs actually can be split up. You have to be careful, and it helps to use Scrapper Confront to do so (or any other ST attack that can be leveraged from max range to get the attention of one of the AVs), but it can be done. I've been on multiple runs where we split them up. (The trickier one is trying to split up the Freedom Phalanx at the end of the Lord Recluse SF.)

No, there’s a flashback mission given by Recluse where you travel to another dimension to battle Sister Psyche, Brawler, Manticore, and Numina. You can level them down to EB’s, but they attack in a group. 
 

Later in the arc, you have to battle Luminary, Maillase, Mynx, and Battle Maiden. They can’t be leveled down and can’t be separated (not if you are soloing). I could beat any of them individually, but all four as a group are devastating. No chance against all of them and they refuse to separate. Just s pain. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by TimesSeven

[Rudra]

20 minutes ago, TimesSeven said:

No, there’s a flashback mission given by Recluse where you travel to another dimension to battle Sister Psyche, Brawler, Manticore, and Numina. You can level them down to EB’s, but they attack in a group. 
 

Later in the arc, you have to battle Luminary, Maillase, Mynx, and Battle Maiden. They can’t be leveled down and can’t be separated (not if you are soloing). I could beat any of them individually, but all four as a group are devastating. No chance against all of them and they refuse to separate. Just s pain. 

Oh... yeah... I guess I blocked that one out.... I have to point out that it actually is possible to separate the four of them... just... uhm... extremely unlikely. Or at least it used to be possible? But yeah... that fight sucks unless you have a team for it....

 

Edit: You also don't need to go to Ouroboros to do it. You can get it from Lord Recluse as long as the team leader unlocked it. Doing it through Ouroboros just lets you fight Statesman at the end with the Freedom Phalanx. It's the SF I was talking about it being trickier to separate the Freedom Phalanx. I just tend to block out the frustration of that specific mission you were talking about.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Rudra

[Clave Dark 5]

5 hours ago, TimesSeven said:

The devs keep this game easy for a reason… it’s because most people like it that way. Every time they make the game harder people complain.

But that's not what we're talking about, "making it harder", the topic at hand was making it easier.

 

 

[Rudra]

7 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

5 hours ago, TimesSeven said:

The devs keep this game easy for a reason… it’s because most people like it that way. Every time they make the game harder people complain.

But that's not what we're talking about, "making it harder", the topic at hand was making it easier.

 

Not actually true since no one is asking for autohit to be removed. The request is:

 

"I'm noticing more and more enemies that have the capability to autohit you regardless of your defense. Arachnos Night Widows can use an automatic blind that doesn't even show up in the hit rolls OR the combat logs. The Tarantula Queen's ability, "Scramble Thoughts" is an autohit. So you're saying that even if your defense was 2000%, these powers are going to automatically work on you no matter what? Just take an inspiration and deal with it?

 

How many other enemy abilities are autohit? "

 

The request does not say a single thing about removing autohit. It asks how many enemy abilities are autohit and comments that the author is noticing more and more enemies getting autohit capabilities. It also points out that excessive use of autohit, which the OP does not claim we have, invalidates defense focused characters. So my read on the OP is "okay, so we have autohit enemy attacks, but are how far are you devs planning on going with this?". A cautionary comment from the player's PoV, not a request to make the game any easier.