Focused Feedback: Epic / Ancillary Power Pools

[ArticulateT]

Psionic Nexus is still reading as having Ice Control as its group affiliation, though it does fly now, as noted in the changes.

 

[Booper]

Just now, ArticulateT said:

Psionic Nexus is still reading as having Ice Control as its group affiliation, though it does fly now, as noted in the changes.

 

Thank you, can you post this in the Beta Bug Report forums? If it's not already fixed internally, I'll make the change tonight.

[brass_eagle]

Since we are close to release here, I figured I'd throw what feedback I have. You probably have heard enough by now, judging by the spiciness of this thread, so a summary is at the top and I hope you'll consider for future changes.

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tl;dr:

 

I don't look at the Epic power pools with any more excitement than I did before (not much). And that sucks because there is a lot of work here meaning this will probably be the only major pass at Epic pools  (WRONG! see: Booper et al., 2024.) I want to be more excited about Epics. The design philosophy is leaning too much into spreadsheet homogenization with not enough qualitative balance considerations. This conflicts with my own opinion on design and what is 'fun'. 

 

There are a few good things to be found, but the negative outweighs the positive IMO. 

 

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Played a few of the new sets, even some of the nerfed ones. Dominator sleet and Epic Bonfire probably did need a little nerf... but I'm non-plussed for the most part with a lean towards negative feelings for this group of changes. Looking at these changes I still see only a few things I'd want. It boils down to design philosophy.

 

Epic pools were originally 'epic' because they allowed archetypes to have powers they don't normally have access to. Those days of limited access are long gone (mostly for melee / damage oriented ATs I'll admit). The tradeoff was harsher design formulas. Acceptable... to a degree.

 

It seems the prevailing philosophy for this update is homogenization. Spreadsheet design. The end goal: you can pick any epic pool (regardless of other powers) and expect the same performance in most situations. This is great!.... if you only want an epic pool choice with different FX. I'm not trying to be rude here but... This. Is. Boring. Some of the enjoyable aspects of epics have been removed in this update with (granted) only a few new ones added. 

 

Personally I get excited when I can create combos that make me feel like I am taking advantage of something (within balance reason). It makes me feel powerful. It is part of the fun of Altitis and trying different combinations. Maybe I want more control, so I pick a epic power pool that has a better hold trading off elsewhere in the set. This is just an example. I still remember the outcry stalker Kinetic Melee Burst PBAoE 100% crit chance being changed to 50%. Maybe it doesn't need to be 100% crit chance, but the set as a whole right now feels like it needs it. That example is not the only time I've felt a design decision is moving too far in a spreadsheet direction.

 

Power balance can exist outside of formulas for qualitative, not quantitative, balance reasons. Purely balancing on numbers will doom 'fun'. Formulas can also change. Hell, most blast set nukes are better control / debuff than tools in Control / Debuff sets. It's just stupid silly.

 

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In any case, I do appreciate the work you have done here. There are positive things here, and I am excited to try them!

 

Edited February 15 by brass_eagle

[Booper]

58 minutes ago, brass_eagle said:

this will probably be the only major pass at Epic pools

Incorrect. This is a multi-page effort. There are a number of sets planned for future release. Some were held back for technical issues (a bummer, because we really would've liked it in this page for what will someday be for obvious reasons), while others just needed further development.

 

Edit: I don't mean to reply to only a portion of your post to correct you. I will love to expand on my response to address many of your concerns that are valid. I will have to do so later when I have the time to type out my thoughts with better clarity. Right now, I would be rushing it, and I believe it would not be as helpful to you or the community.

 

In short, this is phase 1. There are more phases to come. I'll explain more later.

[brass_eagle]

28 minutes ago, Booper said:

*blurb*

 

I don't mean to reply to only a portion of your post to correct you... *blurb*

 

No worries there--I don't feel singled out. I made a wrong assumption (and I'm glad about that). Hopefully, your clarification will help anyone unhappy about any changes. That's good news! Thanks a bunch. You guys do always surprise me, and I should remember that before I go keyboard warrior.

 

Edit: Sidenote--don't get me wrong. I'm required to have spreadsheet-design perfection in my day-to-day. 😄

Edited February 15 by brass_eagle

[WindDemon21]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Curator said:

Patron > Leviathan Mastery > Water Spout (Scrapper/Stalker) - Now accepts Pet sets, no longer accepts Ranged AoE Sets

Just to clarify/make sure, don't forget to make sure this includes recharge intensive pet sets as well, since, you know, it's more recharge based, and is on a 3 minute timer and REALLY needs the recharge in those sets.

[Booper]

32 minutes ago, brass_eagle said:

Edit: Sidenote--don't get me wrong. I'm required to have spreadsheet-design perfection in my day-to-day. 😄

Nothing wrong with spreadsheets. It's data aggregation, and making sense of all the numbers. Too often it gets misconstrued as a calculator where you throw in inputs and get an output. It can be used for that, but it's a far cry from everything you can use spreadsheets for. Without spreadsheets, you're just working off memory, and that's typically faulty.

[Spectral]

Just a question: is there a reasoning why the Epic Ice Pet can fly but the Controller/Dominator Pet cannot?

 

I still wish we could get a Pet-fly power, or Fly from the Fly Pool automatically also applying to Pets... (which would give it an edge over Mystic Flight...

 

*sadpanda*

Edited February 16 by Spectral

[Coyotedancer]

I have wondered sometimes what the rhyme or reason is behind what can fly and what can't... My particular boggle are the winged Knives and Talons of Fury Incarnate Lore pets.

 

Their "critter" versions can fly.

They even have wings.

 

But the Incarnate summons? Nope. 'Stuck on the ground.  I even asked the old devs why that was, when they were in beta back-in-the-day. Intentional choice? Just an oversight? 

 

I never got an answer. 😅

[Captain Powerhouse]

39 minutes ago, Spectral said:

Just a question: is there a reasoning why the Epic Ice Pet can fly but the Controller/Dominator Pet cannot?

 

I still wish we could get a Pet-fly power, or Fly from the Fly Pool automatically also applying to Pets... (which would give it an edge over Mystic Flight...

 

*sadpanda*

 

Its not the same pet, its comparably weaker in exchange of being able to fly, and does not even have legs. It technically always "fly".

[SuperBear]

Incorrect power description requirements:

(playing an Arse/Rad 'troller)

 

Dark Mastery / Dark Blast "...You must be level 35 and have Torrent or Petrifying Gaze before selecting this power."

[Battlecruiser]

Tanker/Brute Mesmerize is a nice addition, because with Entropic Chaos and Call of the Sandman Heal procs slotted (and no recharge), it provides a serviceable if inconsistent heal power for those sets that lack one.

 

To test this out, I ran a regular ITF solo on an SR tanker, and was able to stay alive against that bane of all SR tankers: The Rommy Nictus Autohit Mire attack. It was a little dodgy for a bit, but I managed to keep my Tanker alive through the fight by weaving this power through my attach chain. No inspirations used. Almost every time I got an Entropic Chaos proc, and once every two or so I would get a Sandman proc.

Honestly? I think this power is going to be a sleeper hit. 😏😏😏

[ScarySai]

Once again, asking for ground requirements to allow for hovering near the ground for earth mastery powers.

 

Especially for controller's earth mastery.

[SaxyGuitar]

Ive been test out Masterminds Possess in dark mastery off and on today, and it was a little sad. It didn't stack, and it breaks stealth. I'm assuming this is a bug so I did reported it.

[WindDemon21]

On 2/18/2024 at 6:19 PM, ScarySai said:

Once again, asking for ground requirements to allow for hovering near the ground for earth mastery powers.

 

Especially for controller's earth mastery.

Stone melee too, I was just nudged .03 inches off the ground from a mob and i couldn't use fault/tremor. It was atrocious. There should be like a 6-10ft leeway to using "ground" powers.

[WindDemon21]

Could we get laser beam eyes bumped up a little too. Take it to 12s recharge with bumped up damage to match. Always felt too slow/weak for its cast time.