NCSOFT & Homecoming License Announcement

[Premmy]

Oh snap

[Azari]

14 hours ago, Ladienyte said:

My husband and I started playing CoH/CoV in 2004 and were there when it went dark. Last night, we remade two of our favorite duos and played until the wee hours of the morning. Our oldest son (now 23), who was 3 when we started playing, and a group of his friends (all new to CoH) joined us in game. What an awesome experience! I quit playing MMORPGs when CoH went dark, so this is extra special for me (and my husband, who is thrilled to have me back in a game)!

 

HUGE Congratulations! Thank you, HC, for keeping the game alive on behalf of those of us to whom it has meant so much!

I had a similar experience growing up. I was 9 in 2004 when COH came out and played with my older brother and step dad. What server are you guys on? 🙂

[Ladienyte]

5 hours ago, Azari said:

I had a similar experience growing up. I was 9 in 2004 when COH came out and played with my older brother and step dad. What server are you guys on? 🙂

 

We ended up on Torchbearer. The double XP is nice. 😂

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Very very glad to hear this news.

Found the servers more inhabited than usual this weekend, with multiple teams having a returnee or new player involved. Perhaps word getting out about a more stable IP environment for Homecoming led to greater interest in the game.

[lemming]

9 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Do you know what's in the agreement between NCSoft and Homecoming?   Safe guess is that you don't regardless of all your years of experience.

This is the crux really.    And just because someone has been in IT for X amount of years, doesn't mean they are a lawyer... 

[Doc_Scorpion]

52 minutes ago, EnjoyTheJourney said:

Perhaps word getting out about a more stable IP environment for Homecoming led to greater interest in the game.

Dunno if it was the more stable environment or just the (relatively speaking) enormous amount of coverage serving to remind people that Homecoming exists.  Either way, it's good for the short/medium term health of the game.

[UltraAlt]

On 1/6/2024 at 7:00 PM, gabrilend said:

maybe I'm just traumatized but... Somehow this announcement fills me with dread. What, exactly, do we gain from this? We had our server. We had the game. Now... they have the game, and once again they are leasing it to us. It feels like suddenly, a collar has been placed around our necks, and we are once again at the behest of those who had hurt us.

 

 

[Abraxus]

I look at it this way.

NCSoft always had the legal right to issue a C&D order to Homecoming, and all the other rogue servers.  They still could.  What changed as a result of this agreement, is that their inclination to do so, would be vastly reduced to the point of being highly unlikely.  Also, the benefits are (as I understand it), that Homecoming now has permission to develop the game as if it were still live.  Continuing development of story arcs, power sets, Incarnate system, and other things that were in the pipe before the shutdown announcement of the live game.  I see nothing but good things coming from this, and I am excited for the things we will see come to fruition over the next year, and beyond!

[AlpineTsar]

Macintosh users! (Mac M1-M3 APUs or intel Chips & others)

 

Can you guys advertise a little more(or more largely) that the homecoming experience works fantastically for Mac.  There are a ton of people with iMAC's and MacPros that can run this CPU & now APU intensive engine.   I tried it out on a whim with a new iMac M3 & the installation process was flawless and overall gameplay was astounding. *Fullscreen, *Full resolution, *Full access to all settings.  I thought I was on windows.  I am thoroughly impressed and satisfied with the overall process.   That said, can you guys throw up a large Mac symbol on this website anywhere I think it would help a ton to bring in the "generic crowd" There's an official Mac CD cover image out there from NCs.

 

Mac people welcome home:

1. Download the Mac OS X Homecoming Launcher.

[Grey-Ghost]

Aw man, 3/4 of the people in that poster are dead.

[Excraft]

1 hour ago, Abraxus said:

I look at it this way.

NCSoft always had the legal right to issue a C&D order to Homecoming, and all the other rogue servers.  They still could.  What changed as a result of this agreement, is that their inclination to do so, would be vastly reduced to the point of being highly unlikely.  Also, the benefits are (as I understand it), that Homecoming now has permission to develop the game as if it were still live.  Continuing development of story arcs, power sets, Incarnate system, and other things that were in the pipe before the shutdown announcement of the live game.  I see nothing but good things coming from this, and I am excited for the things we will see come to fruition over the next year, and beyond!

 

I don't disagree, however it was already very highly unlikely that NCSoft would've shut down any of the rogue/pirate servers.  History proves this out.  How many years has it been now the game is in the wild and all of the servers are still going?   It was too costly for NCSoft to go after all of the pirate servers and cheaper to just let them exist unless the people running them did something really stupid.  Nor would NCSoft take a chance on garnering even more ill will by shutting the game down again. 

 

HC and other servers have been doing development for the past several years on new story arcs, new powersets, new costumes etc. without any license.  Other servers are still developing without a license.  Having a "license" doesn't really change anything other than increasing expenses here to pay for the new license.  Smart move on NCSoft... collect some money without lifting a finger from a dead IP, garnering the free good will for "blessing" the server with a license and not shutting anything down.  Winning all around for NCSoft.

[Abraxus]

41 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

I don't disagree, however it was already very highly unlikely that NCSoft would've shut down any of the rogue/pirate servers.  History proves this out.  How many years has it been now the game is in the wild and all of the servers are still going?   It was too costly for NCSoft to go after all of the pirate servers and cheaper to just let them exist unless the people running them did something really stupid.  Nor would NCSoft take a chance on garnering even more ill will by shutting the game down again. 

 

HC and other servers have been doing development for the past several years on new story arcs, new powersets, new costumes etc. without any license.  Other servers are still developing without a license.  Having a "license" doesn't really change anything other than increasing expenses here to pay for the new license.  Smart move on NCSoft... collect some money without lifting a finger from a dead IP, garnering the free good will for "blessing" the server with a license and not shutting anything down.  Winning all around for NCSoft.

They have continued development.  However, now they can further develop with more "official" arcs, and characters, where before they really had to dance around things that would get NCSoft's attention, in a bad way.  Now, they no longer have to worry about that.  I don't see that getting a license puts them at any more risk of being shut-down.  I see it as less likely.  Now, out of scope servers, that could very well be a different story.

[Bodai]

On 1/6/2024 at 9:08 PM, Hyperstrike said:

That stuff was purged back in 2019 as a goodwill measure for NCSoft.  To set the stage for HC's existence.

It doesn't exist anymore.

Sorry.

I don't believe this for a second, the data exists, someone has it, or a copy could be found. (and how would you know?  Or is this just "what you heard"?)

More likely there is some BS legalese reason it can't be used, or indeed even acknowledged that it exists.

I think I remember something along those lines in the original conversations, maybe something like they were worried about privacy of the data.

 

I don't see a problem (especially if you now have a license).  If you still have the original e-mail address or whatever identifying information, get your character data back and imported into your account, same way it was done on the original "underground" server (the guy who ran that was uber paranoid the SWAT team was going to bust down his door at any second).

 

This is probably the biggest hesitation I have about coming back.  I really enjoyed playing all those characters, and they took a long time to build.  I do not have nearly as much disposable time now as I did then, so it is impractical to rebuild them.  As I mentioned previously, I only rebuilt the one character and that took a long time.  I might build some new characters and play with my kids a bit, but I probably won't get into the 20B INF super-incarnate builds that are tweaked to the N^th degree.  Who knows, maybe you don't even need that as much, even with the higher level content.  My playstyle was more play a handful of really well-built characters vs. building dozens of mediocre one's.

 

All that being said, I am not holding out any hope that we will get the original character data back.  This is great news with the license, but the universe is never so kind that we would get everything back like that, nothing I know of is ever that good.  But it never hurts to ask in any case.

 

-Bodai

[The Fifth Horseman]

1 hour ago, Grey-Ghost said:

Aw man, 3/4 of the people in that poster are dead.

Death is but a doorway, time is but a window. They'll be back.

[Excraft]

22 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

They have continued development.  However, now they can further develop with more "official" arcs, and characters, where before they really had to dance around things that would get NCSoft's attention, in a bad way.  Now, they no longer have to worry about that.  I don't see that getting a license puts them at any more risk of being shut-down.  I see it as less likely.  Now, out of scope servers, that could very well be a different story.

 

Not sure that makes any sense.  They've done work on arcs here that involved "official" characters and such.  I agree with you that having a "license" doesn't make it more likely they'll get shut down now.  I was just suggesting that the chances of that happening were slim to none before for various reasons.  Also, I don't like that people are now referring to other servers as "illegitimate" or "out of scope" or whatever other vitriolic derogatory term people feel inclined to toss their way.  Other servers have been doing their own thing for years now too and having options for people to try is a good thing. 

[Bodai]

2 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

Not sure that makes any sense.  They've done work on arcs here that involved "official" characters and such.  I agree with you that having a "license" doesn't make it more likely they'll get shut down now.  I was just suggesting that the chances of that happening were slim to none before for various reasons.  Also, I don't like that people are now referring to other servers as "illegitimate" or "out of scope" or whatever other vitriolic derogatory term people feel inclined to toss their way.  Other servers have been doing their own thing for years now too and having options for people to try is a good thing. 

I agree that there is no reason to disparage other servers or be in any way unkind or disrespectful.  But, did any of them do the work to get a license?

I suspect NCSOFT will just continue to look the other way on those, but there are things they won't be able to do that a licensed server can.

[Excraft]

16 minutes ago, Bodai said:

I agree that there is no reason to disparage other servers or be in any way unkind or disrespectful.  But, did any of them do the work to get a license?

 

Why would they want a license?  They've been doing fine without one and don't want/need the added expense. 

 

17 minutes ago, Bodai said:

I suspect NCSOFT will just continue to look the other way on those, but there are things they won't be able to do that a licensed server can.

 

What exactly won't they be able to do that they haven't done already? 

[Bodai]

31 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

Why would they want a license?  They've been doing fine without one and don't want/need the added expense. 

 

 

What exactly won't they be able to do that they haven't done already? 

With a license, you would not need to operate partially or totally in the shadows.  You could have clients available on Steam or other mainstream platforms.  It does appear that there are restrictions on making a profit, but they can officially accept donations to support their operations.  I think it basically removes all of the "gray areas"... "less" fear of being shut down.  If you offered those other servers licenses as well, I am sure they would seriously consider it.

 

I don't think you really need me to spell it out for you.  People don't need to get married either, but they do and it has pros and cons just like anything.  They put the work in so they get the spoils, whatever that may be, likely that will become more clear over the next few years.  Perhaps NCSOFT is taking a "wait and see what happens" approach and this could be the first step to something more.  Either way it doesn't really take any effort on their part, so they don't really lose anything.

 

I for one would not play it that much for no reason other than it could go away at any time, and I don't think that you can argue that this does not at least make that less likely.  We can argue about how secure that actually is or is not with a license, but many or most "solutions" are actually "make better" rather than "fix".

 

[Excraft]

8 minutes ago, Bodai said:

With a license, you would not need to operate partially or totally in the shadows.  You could have clients available on Steam or other mainstream platforms.  It does appear that there are restrictions on making a profit, but they can officially accept donations to support their operations.  I think it basically removes all of the "gray areas"... "less" fear of being shut down.  If you offered those other servers licenses as well, I am sure they would seriously consider it.

 

I don't think you really need me to spell it out for you.  People don't need to get married either, but they do and it has pros and cons just like anything.  They put the work in so they get the spoils, whatever that may be, likely that will become more clear over the next few years.  Perhaps NCSOFT is taking a "wait and see what happens" approach and this could be the first step to something more.  Either way it doesn't really take any effort on their part, so they don't really lose anything.

 

 

I don't know anyone running the other servers on a personal level.  I know there's players talking over on other servers about what this new license thing means for them in that they don't want to get involved, don't want to have to get one and don't want to be forced over here for various reasons.  Can't say as I blame them in that regard.  Other servers have been doing fine doing their own thing for years now, so there's no need to get involved with a "license" or have the hassle of dealing with NCSoft.  I certainly hope that other servers and the players on them aren't in any way going to be "encouraged" to stop what they're doing, shut down and be forced over here.  That would create a whole lot of bad will here.  That much is an absolute certainty.

 

10 minutes ago, Bodai said:

I for one would not play it that much for no reason other than it could go away at any time, and I don't think that you can argue that this does not at least make that less likely.  We can argue about how secure that actually is or is not with a license, but many or most "solutions" are actually "make better" rather than "fix".

 

The game could still go away at any time for any reason NCSoft wants.  Also, having a "license" doesn't mean HC or the new and improved "City Council" won't implode at some point and shut the whole thing down from their end.  So NCSoft isn't the only one that can cause the game to go away again.  I also don't think that having a "license" really changes anything.  I mean, maybe it goes from a .000000001.1% likelihood of getting shut down to a .000000001% chance.  Not sure that's really all that big of a deal to be honest.   Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for the HC folks here on getting that done.  I just don't see it being all that important. 

 

 

[rashnudamz]

Just to echo the general feeling of that this is awesome news, thank you and well done 🙂

[Bodai]

3 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

I don't know anyone running the other servers on a personal level.  I know there's players talking over on other servers about what this new license thing means for them in that they don't want to get involved, don't want to have to get one and don't want to be forced over here for various reasons.  Can't say as I blame them in that regard.  Other servers have been doing fine doing their own thing for years now, so there's no need to get involved with a "license" or have the hassle of dealing with NCSoft.  I certainly hope that other servers and the players on them aren't in any way going to be "encouraged" to stop what they're doing, shut down and be forced over here.  That would create a whole lot of bad will here.  That much is an absolute certainty.

 

 

The game could still go away at any time for any reason NCSoft wants.  Also, having a "license" doesn't mean HC or the new and improved "City Council" won't implode at some point and shut the whole thing down from their end.  So NCSoft isn't the only one that can cause the game to go away again.  I also don't think that having a "license" really changes anything.  I mean, maybe it goes from a .000000001.1% likelihood of getting shut down to a .000000001% chance.  Not sure that's really all that big of a deal to be honest.   Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for the HC folks here on getting that done.  I just don't see it being all that important. 

 

 

So then, maybe none of this really needs to be said, I don't think we are talking past each other here.

If you want a guarantee, buy a toaster (and even then...).

 

The other servers could get tired of running their instance (or any number of other reasons) and shut it down at any time as well.  And that might even be more likely than NCSOFT doing it, all things considered.  As you say, same thing could happen to this server, but I think you will agree, having a license does make all these scenarios a bit less likely.

 

But I will say, if NCSOFT takes any action against this server or the others in the future, they will be the a-holes, just as they were when the shut down the original public instance (for no good reason).  I would not take it out on the group running this server either way, regardless of any unintended consequences, just because they chose to work with NCSOFT.

 

Agreed?

 

-Bodai

[Doc_Scorpion]

31 minutes ago, Bodai said:

With a license, you would not need to operate partially or totally in the shadows.  You could have clients available on Steam or other mainstream platforms.

Exactly! There's a ton of stuff you can't do (or really shouldn't do) operating in the shadows.  I mean, just handling donations 'in the shadows' is fraught with thermonuclear legal landmines.

Folks don't realize that "they've been doing fine so far" is just another way of saying "they haven't been caught yet".

[Abraxus]

I feel pretty confident that there is much about this agreement that we are not aware of, in so far as the details that could answer many of our questions.  I'm also confident that when HC management feel that they can give us more information, they will.  I, for one, look forward to each, and every advancement of the game to come in the next year, and beyond.  The HC team has always done right by us, and I believe that this will give them the added freedom to do a lot of things that they couldn't risk before this license was granted.  If there is to be any change in the landscape of other servers, it won't be decided by HC.  It will be decided by NCSoft.  And, since they have never been much for telegraphing their intentions, we really can't know what their take is on that topic.

 

[Bodai]

39 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

I feel pretty confident that there is much about this agreement that we are not aware of, in so far as the details that could answer many of our questions.  I'm also confident that when HC management feel that they can give us more information, they will.  I, for one, look forward to each, and every advancement of the game to come in the next year, and beyond.  The HC team has always done right by us, and I believe that this will give them the added freedom to do a lot of things that they couldn't risk before this license was granted.  If there is to be any change in the landscape of other servers, it won't be decided by HC.  It will be decided by NCSoft.  And, since they have never been much for telegraphing their intentions, we really can't know what their take is on that topic.

 

I think the primary reason for this is due to how many Asian countries like Japan and South Korea conduct business, and this is also why I am so surprised that they were able to get a license, it's pretty remarkable really.

 

I am speaking from experience, I used to be involved with Anime conventions, and when it came to getting guests or in any way dealing with the Japanese companies and license holders, there is a whole ritual that needs to be followed before they will even agree to talk to you, let alone trust you, I could tell you some really funny stories.  It's all saving face and showing respect.  I think the work we did (all the people involved with Anime conventions) helped pave the way for the comparatively free flow of content we have today, in some cases they now make more money on that then they do domestically.

 

It would take way too long to explain, I could write a book on it.  But, I am willing to bet that HC has a South Korean agent, confidant, or representative that was key to making this deal happen, I think it is the only way they would ever pull it off, especially when they don't have the deep pockets it would take to do anything directly, and even then probably not.

 

But, this is why we will never have the answers to all of these questions, after going through all of that the HC team would not dare break that trust.

 

The only way you might ever have a chance get those answers would be - learn perfect Korean, get a job with NCSOFT, take the CEO (or another high-level manager) to a bar after work and get him seriously drunk, and then ask away.  But, then you would not be able to speak about anything you heard the next day, you would have to forever keep it to yourself.

 

A good example of this is the movie Mr. Baseball with Tom Selleck, especially the part about "asking for advice about the women"...

 

-Bodai

 

P.S. - this also means that I think having this license means more than it would if it came from a U.S. or other western country, it's significant.  They would not grant that only to then yank it away later, not without some way of saving face in doing so.

Edited January 8 by Bodai

[Excraft]

52 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

I mean, just handling donations 'in the shadows' is fraught with thermonuclear legal landmines.

 

Folks don't realize that "they've been doing fine so far" is just another way of saying "they haven't been caught yet".

 

NCSoft has known about HC and other servers for years.  NCSoft has known for years some have been taking player donations to keep everything running and NCSoft didn't lift a finger to stop it.  They've already "been caught" and NCSoft didn't shut anyone down.   People shouldn't assume what the motivations are for other servers as well.  I know various discussions with people on other servers that some of them don't really care about having a client on Steam or wanting a huge number of players.  They prefer the peace and quiet and flexibility of staying small and more casual.  Heck I even know a couple of people who bit the bullet and stood up their own personal servers for family and friends to avoid all of the drama here.

 

22 minutes ago, Bodai said:

P.S. - this also means that I think having this license means more than it would if it came from a U.S. or other western country, it's significant.  They would not grant that only to then yank it away later, not without some way of saving face in doing so.

 

I think it more having to do with not wanting to bother with trying to fight an endless legal battle on multiple fronts.  NCSoft turned this into a future money making opportunity for themselves without needing to type a line of code or maintain anything.  Win win and smart business decision on their part.