Bank Missions Bugged?

[Gnarchotix]

Are we doing something wrong? We have 8 people on the team. Our notoriety is set +4x8 +AV +Bosses and we still get no AVs this is crazy to think that we should get AVs.... Seems like 1 out of 10 we get a AV.

As you can see, I have spoken with GM_Flints. If this can be looked into that would be amazing. This seems to happen in every zone. We have done 20 Bank Missions today in PI, Talos, Steel, and FF. That way we can collect as much data as possible. 
 

-Full Team of 8 with everyone's notoriety to the max with AVs turned on. 

 

-PI Bank Mission 2 out of 20 Bank Missions were AVs.

9 of the 18 Bank Missions were Critical Mass & Fallen From Grace as EBs 

The 9 others were named Bosses as Normal Bosses. Not EB/AVs

-Talos Bank Missions 1 AV out of 20

-11 EBs

-8 Named normal Bosses Not EB/AVs

 

-Steel Bank Missions 3 AVs out of 20
-8 EBs

-9 Named normal Bosses Not EB/AVs

-FF 1 AVs out of 20
-8 EBs

-11 Named normal Bosses Not EB/Avs

With my group we do the Bank Missions only for the AVs. With that said... Please look into this....
As I am typing this report. They got another Named Normal Boss in PI.
 

Kinda crazy that something is so off... The mission, even before Team Leader sets, already has the proper notoriety. This should automatically change the pool of the mission to spawn the desired AVs. 

Hope this info helps and we can get this fixed. If not, what's the reasoning for doing Bank Missions or having a notoriety at all?!

 

 

Edited January 23 by Gnarchotix
Fixing how it read

[Kyksie]

Not sure if this is a bug or not, but I can confirm that it was this way on the Live server. Sometimes you get a boss, sometimes Lord Recluse himself decides to pull bank job.

[Gnarchotix]

9 minutes ago, Kyksie said:

Not sure if this is a bug or not, but I can confirm that it was this way on the Live server. Sometimes you get a boss, sometimes Lord Recluse himself decides to pull bank job.

 

For me, if it ignores your notoriety settings, this is an issue. However, I understand this is how it is. If that's the case. Why are the Fallen From Grace coming in as a Non EB? Its honestly an easy fix. AV turned on for notoriety - CHECK.... Alight... Can only spawn the bosses that are AVs. EB turned on for notoriety - CHECK Only named EBs can spawn.

[Gnarchotix]

Another PI Bank Mission and its Dr Aeon EB. 

[starro]

Are you the mission owner for all of these? I am curious if on a team with others and it’s their settings not yours going into the mission that is causing this. 

[Rudra]

59 minutes ago, starro said:

Are you the mission owner for all of these? I am curious if on a team with others and it’s their settings not yours going into the mission that is causing this. 

Author said was a full team of 8. That overrides anyone's No AVs setting.

[Captain Fabulous]

I reported this months ago and got no dev response. There's definitely something wrong with the AV spawn rates. IIRC AVs are supposed to have a 25% spawn rate. It's not even close to that right now. More like 5%. I dunno if it was changed on purpose or something got borked.

[Gnarchotix]

6 hours ago, starro said:

Are you the mission owner for all of these? I am curious if on a team with others and it’s their settings not yours going into the mission that is causing this. 

 

Yes as it says in my OP 

"-Full Team of 8 with everyone's notoriety to the max with AVs turned on."

[Gnarchotix]

5 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

I reported this months ago and got no dev response. There's definitely something wrong with the AV spawn rates. IIRC AVs are supposed to have a 25% spawn rate. It's not even close to that right now. More like 5%. I dunno if it was changed on purpose or something got borked.

I am glad I am not the only one to notice this. Even with my data, 25% is not happening.  Again everyone is pushing for harder content. Yet the Bank Missions are suppose to be 25% why not make it based off what our notoriety is.... Its our choice... Right now I have collected enough data for the Devs and GMs to possibly do something. My group has decided to stop doing Bank Missions until future notice. 

 

Please Dev Team, Let our notoriety define what we want in our Bank Missions!

Edited January 23 by Gnarchotix

[Gnarchotix]

I would like to see a Blue Post comment on here. So I know this hasn't fallen on deaf ears. Please.

[Captain Fabulous]

Unfortunately they're a bit busy right now, so don't get your hopes up.

[Gnarchotix]

Maybe, I am not looking for instant response. However, its been couple days. They have multi people that can't help comment on things like this.

[Gnarchotix]

Just my Daily Bump

[Hedgefund]

I'm going to +1 this.  I have a group that does scanners/banks to start out sessions and over the years on HC we've done a LOT of banks as a full team of 8 and the AV rate is disappointingly low.  Nowhere close to 25% if that's supposed to be the target (and I don't know that it is).  The same seems to be true in mayhems.  I wish I'd kept some records, I hate using "feels like" to make a quantitative point instead of real data but that's all I've got right now.

[Number Six]

Not a bug. Bank missions have always spawned a named boss, much like a lot of storyarc missions do. This is normally a boss rank enemy.

 

Different bank missions have a different pool of bosses to choose from. The high level missions (looks like Founders and PI) also include a chance for a signature villain to spawn, if and only if there are 4-8 players on the team. Only if one of the signature villains is chosen does it spawn as an EB or AV, depending on notoriety settings, and only then because that's the only rank that exists for those villains. The spawndef doesn't specify a rank so it would normally try Minion, Lt, Boss in a random order.

 

Couldn't tell you exactly what the chance is supposed to be at a glance. Safeguards are a bit of a house of cards when it comes to the way the mission is built, and there's multiple layers of randomized variables that are chained together. I do remember it's always been a fairly low chance as far as I can remember, since they were added way back in issue 8.

 

It may be worth checking the page 7 beta to see if the rate is any better there. It wasn't explicitly looked at, but one of the underlying changes in page 7 was cleaning up some legacy code, and that included switching out the old rule-30 RNG that was still used a few places for a higher quality random number generator.

[Number Six]

Rereading your post, the only thing that looks like possibly a bug is Critical Mass and Fallen from Grace sometimes spawning as EBs. The villaindefs for those only exist as bosses and don't define an EB rank, it's weird that they're somehow getting their rank upgraded.

[Hedgefund]

Just another data point, in my scores of banks (on big teams) I've never seen Fallen From Grace or Critical Mass as an EB.  I've only ever seen Aeon as an EB.

[Gnarchotix]

47 minutes ago, Number Six said:

Rereading your post, the only thing that looks like possibly a bug is Critical Mass and Fallen from Grace sometimes spawning as EBs. The villaindefs for those only exist as bosses and don't define an EB rank, it's weird that they're somehow getting their rank upgraded.

While I undeerstand this... This shouldn't be the case anymore. The foundation I am trying to build on is. People are wanting harder content for a reason. People want their AVs. The Bank Mission or Heist is supposed to be a reward for helping the detectives. It's not a reward. It's a disgrace. We want our notoriety to 100% affect just like AE missions. If you choose and AV, you get an AV, if not you get EB. Very simple and straight forward.

There is SUPPOSED to be aa standard 25% chance at AV. I am not the only person on this post to express their own concerns and also in the past. It isn't 25% its 5% and I can do my data. I can run 100 Bank Missions np and do a full presentation on how something is wrong on the backend.

Edited January 25 by Gnarchotix
Bolding a sentence

[Number Six]

Where's this 25% coming from anyway? I see no indication that it was ever supposed to be 25%.

[Rudra]

14 minutes ago, Number Six said:

Where's this 25% coming from anyway? I see no indication that it was ever supposed to be 25%.

Unknown. I'm just using the information provided in the thread. (Edit: First instance of it is the 7th post on the thread.)

Edited January 25 by Rudra

[Gnarchotix]

1 hour ago, Number Six said:

Where's this 25% coming from anyway? I see no indication that it was ever supposed to be 25%.

Spoke with many GMs ingame about this. Flint was one of them I just happen to screen shot. 

[lemming]

Looking at the code (SCORE, so might not be accurate), when you get the Bank mission and you have enough people on your team, and I'm not sure if notoriety setting works on that, if the random villain has an AV version for Banks setup, you will get an AV.

 

Now what could have dropped chances of AVs, is that HC put more villains into the pool that didn't have AV ability.  (Just a guess, but that pool may be held in a different part of the configuration

 

Looking at it a bit more, I think I see where the 25% came from. There's a list that has a 25% chance of being activated, that might have a chance then of an AV.

So it is going to be less than 25% by this read, but I need to take some aspirin before delving more into this.

 

 

[lemming]

Ok, if I read this right, and I did screw around on Beta for a bit running +4/x8 PI Safeguards Had AV turned on as well

 

Code basically says

Signature Villain or Critical Mass or Fallen from Grace  (Silent Blade is in pool instead of Sig_V if you are solo without AV turned on)

So 33% of the two bosses

Signature Villain has:

Ghost_Widow, Mako, Scirocco, Black_Scorpion, Dr_Aeon, Lord_Recluse

 

Playing around on Beta, a small sample of 20 runs:

Fallen from Grace, Boss	6
Critical Mass, Boss	6
Lord Recluse, AV	1
Ghost Widow, AV	2
Black Scorpion, AV	1
Captain Mako, AV	1
Scirocco, AV	2
Dr. Aeon, Elite Boss	1

 

Codewise, looks like 2/3 of the results would be the two bosses, 1/3 chance of getting the AV list and Aeon.  So about 28% of an AV.  And by my sample size I got 35%.

 

I might see if I can get some people together for a run on live

 

 

[Bionic_Flea]

When and where Lemming?

[lemming]

3 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

When and where Lemming?

My timing is going to be off today.  It's going to be a long day with the cats.  I might just do a solo run since I can mostly sneak into the bank to grab data and using Hassel, it's quick.  Everlasting will probably be the server I use.

 

If I get a similar distribution, then it might be due to the OP settings.    Does look like -1/x8 works for AVs.  I do have Bosses and AVs turned on still.

 

If I don't get similar, then there's a couple things it could be.  Though now that I'm looking at the code more, I can see why some things act wonky if disturbed.  Jenga Spaghetti