Make Origins More Relevant

[Herotu]

I like the idea of a branching story arc tht allows players to focus down on their personal backstory. This is all very well for characters that fit into the CoH lore, but many don't, and there is beautiful y in that creativity.

[Zep]

I've always liked making some origin specific flavor to the game.

 

Origin specific power pools and/or make the travel pools have a different look/feel based on origin with characters able to select 'normal' or their origin. This would make it opt in.

 

With many powers they can be customized to 'cast' which fits magic. It would take a lot of work and be awesome if there were more options that could be used to give origin flavor - gadgets for Tech, a set of different gestures for mutant, etc. Maybe enhance 'cast' and make it look/sound more spell like.

 

There are ways to make origins relevant.

 

PB/WS get their own intro quest lines. Lets add the same for each origin, more so then what city hall does as anyone can grab any of them.

[Vanden]

There’s no way to write one-size-fits-all content using origins as a base.

 

I feel like you're trying to apply an impossible standard to the idea and then rejecting it because it can't live up to that standard. CoH already sends your "Superman" and "Batman" on missions to clear gang members from warehouses, and then into portals into other dimensions/timelines to fight aliens. No one's head explodes. If you're deeply into your concept as a street vigilante, you just bypass the content that doesn't fit that. Adding origin-themed/oriented mission content would just be more of that. And the vast majority of players aren't so deeply into their concept that they filter missions based on some kind of setting or genre standard.

 

Frankly I'm baffled at resistance to the idea of making some aspect of the game more interesting. I mean I expect people to say it's unworkable or possibly confusing or even flat out impossible without a a major code overhaul, but if your objection amounts to "that might make me have an opinion about my origin" I'm kind of at a loss...

 

Your suggestion is to make origin more meaningful. How does adding mission arcs themed around origins make our choice of origin for our characters more meaningful? If you limit the content to just characters of matching alignment, all you've done is add a mechanic that excludes 4/5ths of characters from running it. If anyone can run it, that literally describes all the content already in the game.

 

Yes, the game already sends us to fight gang bangers and dimensional invaders alike. What it doesn't do is cloak that in some kind of theme, saying "the gang bangers are for Natural and the dimensional invaders are for Science."

[Leogunner]

There’s no way to write one-size-fits-all content using origins as a base.

 

I feel like you're trying to apply an impossible standard to the idea and then rejecting it because it can't live up to that standard. CoH already sends your "Superman" and "Batman" on missions to clear gang members from warehouses, and then into portals into other dimensions/timelines to fight aliens. No one's head explodes. If you're deeply into your concept as a street vigilante, you just bypass the content that doesn't fit that. Adding origin-themed/oriented mission content would just be more of that. And the vast majority of players aren't so deeply into their concept that they filter missions based on some kind of setting or genre standard.

 

Frankly I'm baffled at resistance to the idea of making some aspect of the game more interesting. I mean I expect people to say it's unworkable or possibly confusing or even flat out impossible without a a major code overhaul, but if your objection amounts to "that might make me have an opinion about my origin" I'm kind of at a loss...

 

Your suggestion is to make origin more meaningful. How does adding mission arcs themed around origins make our choice of origin for our characters more meaningful? If you limit the content to just characters of matching alignment, all you've done is add a mechanic that excludes 4/5ths of characters from running it. If anyone can run it, that literally describes all the content already in the game.

 

Yes, the game already sends us to fight gang bangers and dimensional invaders alike. What it doesn't do is cloak that in some kind of theme, saying "the gang bangers are for Natural and the dimensional invaders are for Science."

 

Firstly, with all due respect: no one cares.  No one cares if the gang bangers are natural, mutant or omnipotent cosmic beings.  What matters is WHAT they're doing, likely pushing drugs, stealing money, fighting for turf, etc.  It also doesn't matter if the dimensional invaders are Science, Natural or Mutation (*spoiler*), it matters HOW they invade.  Most Street-based heroes don't have the means or connections to stop a space fleet from pushing into our dimension without contrively linking them up with an individual who just so happens to have all the tech and knowledge BUT doesn't want to get off their duff and do the job themselves.

 

Secondly, I believe, to the OP's discredit, that the idea is to morph and combine ideas.  It's not set in stone what SHOULD or HOW origins could be emphasized.  I'm going to go off on a limb and say he's already conceded to YOUR points of people not being able to be held accountable for their choice of origin so some means of circumventing or bypassing that choice is likely the solution to your misgivings.

 

Thirdly, I read someone else's post about RP and character concept and how good RPers find ways to FIT into the lore of the game while also being creative.

 

Post here: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,5323.msg42264.html#msg42264

 

Point in question here:

And the reason I do that is because the whole point of roleplaying in a given setting is to accept the premise of the setting. The premise has rules. If you don't follow the rules, you should have a good reason why you aren't. If you aren't and have no reason other than 'just because,' then you aren't really interested in roleplaying in the setting, you're just power tripping. Anybody can make a titan weapons/invulnerability tanker and then write them off as an Omnidimensional Evil Overlord with incomprehensible cosmic power, but that would be boring, trite, and also kind of dishonest to the setting. If you want to RP a particular character concept, you should make, at least, a good-faith effort to replicate a reasonable facsimile of it in-game.

 

To that extent, I'd argue, if you're TRYING to push boundaries with regards to origin that you then hold the entire concept of powers origins hostage, and how they interact with stories, in what fashion can we rectify THAT?  That should be the question rather than "how can we not upset those individuals who might just be a minority or under the assumption their power-tripping is how their experience should be?".

[Vanden]

There’s no way to write one-size-fits-all content using origins as a base.

 

I feel like you're trying to apply an impossible standard to the idea and then rejecting it because it can't live up to that standard. CoH already sends your "Superman" and "Batman" on missions to clear gang members from warehouses, and then into portals into other dimensions/timelines to fight aliens. No one's head explodes. If you're deeply into your concept as a street vigilante, you just bypass the content that doesn't fit that. Adding origin-themed/oriented mission content would just be more of that. And the vast majority of players aren't so deeply into their concept that they filter missions based on some kind of setting or genre standard.

 

Frankly I'm baffled at resistance to the idea of making some aspect of the game more interesting. I mean I expect people to say it's unworkable or possibly confusing or even flat out impossible without a a major code overhaul, but if your objection amounts to "that might make me have an opinion about my origin" I'm kind of at a loss...

 

Your suggestion is to make origin more meaningful. How does adding mission arcs themed around origins make our choice of origin for our characters more meaningful? If you limit the content to just characters of matching alignment, all you've done is add a mechanic that excludes 4/5ths of characters from running it. If anyone can run it, that literally describes all the content already in the game.

 

Yes, the game already sends us to fight gang bangers and dimensional invaders alike. What it doesn't do is cloak that in some kind of theme, saying "the gang bangers are for Natural and the dimensional invaders are for Science."

 

Firstly, with all due respect: no one cares.  No one cares if the gang bangers are natural, mutant or omnipotent cosmic beings.  What matters is WHAT they're doing, likely pushing drugs, stealing money, fighting for turf, etc.  It also doesn't matter if the dimensional invaders are Science, Natural or Mutation (*spoiler*), it matters HOW they invade.  Most Street-based heroes don't have the means or connections to stop a space fleet from pushing into our dimension without contrively linking them up with an individual who just so happens to have all the tech and knowledge BUT doesn't want to get off their duff and do the job themselves.

 

Secondly, I believe, to the OP's discredit, that the idea is to morph and combine ideas.  It's not set in stone what SHOULD or HOW origins could be emphasized.  I'm going to go off on a limb and say he's already conceded to YOUR points of people not being able to be held accountable for their choice of origin so some means of circumventing or bypassing that choice is likely the solution to your misgivings.

 

Thirdly, I read someone else's post about RP and character concept and how good RPers find ways to FIT into the lore of the game while also being creative.

 

Post here: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,5323.msg42264.html#msg42264

 

Point in question here:

And the reason I do that is because the whole point of roleplaying in a given setting is to accept the premise of the setting. The premise has rules. If you don't follow the rules, you should have a good reason why you aren't. If you aren't and have no reason other than 'just because,' then you aren't really interested in roleplaying in the setting, you're just power tripping. Anybody can make a titan weapons/invulnerability tanker and then write them off as an Omnidimensional Evil Overlord with incomprehensible cosmic power, but that would be boring, trite, and also kind of dishonest to the setting. If you want to RP a particular character concept, you should make, at least, a good-faith effort to replicate a reasonable facsimile of it in-game.

 

To that extent, I'd argue, if you're TRYING to push boundaries with regards to origin that you then hold the entire concept of powers origins hostage, and how they interact with stories, in what fashion can we rectify THAT?  That should be the question rather than "how can we not upset those individuals who might just be a minority or under the assumption their power-tripping is how their experience should be?".

 

I'm not really sure why you're bringing up "power-tripping" roleplayers or people who intentionally roleplay characters that don't fit into the setting. I'm saying that if someone says "I'm going to write a story for all the Natural heroes, it'll be a gritty noir story about a murder mystery," that sort of story is not going to connect with a Natural character who's an alien, or a dragon, or something. Those aren't wild or out-there character concepts for a game about superheroes. I'm just saying that coming at content from the angle of "this will be the story for Natural/Magic/etc. characters" is doomed to fail.

[EggKookoo]

Your suggestion is to make origin more meaningful. How does adding mission arcs themed around origins make our choice of origin for our characters more meaningful? If you limit the content to just characters of matching alignment, all you've done is add a mechanic that excludes 4/5ths of characters from running it. If anyone can run it, that literally describes all the content already in the game.

 

I mean it's kind of basic logic. Making your choice or origin have consequences for content is like a textbook example of making it "meaningful." I don't if it can be explained any plainer.

 

Regarding excluding a portion of the players, so what? The game does that all over the place. Heroes can't take missions in the Rogue Isles and vice-versa. Praetorians are stuck in Praetoria until lv20. Barring turning off exp gains, you can outlevel content in a given area that another player might have been able to do.

 

I'm not suggesting all content be origin-locked. Having origin-specific missions only "excludes" you if you choose not to make a character of that origin, and in an alt-heavy game like CoH there's little excuse for you to not roll one up if you want that content. Further, missions are shared across teammates. If you're Science and you are teamed with a Natural, you'd be able to do their "Natural" mission with them just like you could do any other of their missions. If anything it would be an incentive to team and encourage "origin diversification" if such a thing was ever needed.

 

Finally, CoH has a history of soothing these kinds of restrictions, like the aforementioned exp disabling. Beside an origin respec, I'm sure they could have special circumstances where you can have a kind of "all origin" task force or whatever. I mean I know creating new TFs is even more pie-in-the-sky but it's not a problem of concept, just a question of resources.

[Vanden]

Your suggestion is to make origin more meaningful. How does adding mission arcs themed around origins make our choice of origin for our characters more meaningful? If you limit the content to just characters of matching alignment, all you've done is add a mechanic that excludes 4/5ths of characters from running it. If anyone can run it, that literally describes all the content already in the game.

 

I mean it's kind of basic logic. Making your choice or origin have consequences for content is like a textbook example of making it "meaningful." I don't if it can be explained any plainer.

 

Regarding excluding a portion of the players, so what? The game does that all over the place. Heroes can't take missions in the Rogue Isles and vice-versa. Praetorians are stuck in Praetoria until lv20. Barring turning off exp gains, you can outlevel content in a given area that another player might have been able to do.

 

I'm not suggesting all content be origin-locked. Having origin-specific missions only "excludes" you if you choose not to make a character of that origin, and in an alt-heavy game like CoH there's little excuse for you to not roll one up if you want that content. Further, missions are shared across teammates. If you're Science and you are teamed with a Natural, you'd be able to do their "Natural" mission with them just like you could do any other of their missions. If anything it would be an incentive to team and encourage "origin diversification" if such a thing was ever needed.

 

Finally, CoH has a history of soothing these kinds of restrictions, like the aforementioned exp disabling. Beside an origin respec, I'm sure they could have special circumstances where you can have a kind of "all origin" task force or whatever. I mean I know creating new TFs is even more pie-in-the-sky but it's not a problem of concept, just a question of resources.

Then I'm still a hard No on this suggestion. I don't see the value in producing content locked to the majority of characters, or in putting up a framework that requires putting out five times the content to equal the output of a typical content push, or in creating an environment where a writer would have to produce a type or genre of content that they aren't enthusiastic about in order to meet a quota. That last detail is sure to result in subpar writing.

[EggKookoo]

I'm saying that if someone says "I'm going to write a story for all the Natural heroes, it'll be a gritty noir story about a murder mystery," that sort of story is not going to connect with a Natural character who's an alien, or a dragon, or something. Those aren't wild or out-there character concepts for a game about superheroes. I'm just saying that coming at content from the angle of "this will be the story for Natural/Magic/etc. characters" is doomed to fail.

 

Wait wait, this is an argument I can work with!  :)

 

Let me see if I can break it down.

 

Origins weren't set up to be divided into genres. True, for the most part. That doesn't mean they can't be divided into genres, if you allow for some overlap. It also would mean that once you start looking at origins as the inspiration for your character's core genre, you'd have to select an origin based on that (or pick just whatever if you don't care about those kinds of things).

 

There isn't enough variety in origins. Also true. From launch, people have wanted an alien origin (I believe Emmert said we should use natural, which frankly doesn't feel... er... natural to me). For the short term it means just fitting to the best origin you can. I'm not sure I'd use natural for a dragon, for example. Magic might work better, but I suppose it depends on your concept. In the long run it might mean adding more origins.

 

"Natural" doesn't mean detective noire. Correct, which is also why I added the reference to Journey to the Center of the Earth. Natural could encompass exotic "real world" Jules Verne or Edgar Rice Burrows settings. Land that Time Forgot is another one, which might dovetail with the dragons = natural thing if you wanted that.

 

I agree that origins were not set up for this purpose. Frankly I'm not sure what they were meant for. I have trouble swallowing that they were created solely as a gate for enhancements, especially since they feature so prominently in character creation. I suspect the devs had some kind of content-related intentions behind them but didn't have time or resources to make it happen.

 

Also, origins-as-genre, and genre-as-mission-content, weren't really my core suggestions. I'm just trying to throw out something to kick off some ideas. Really I just want my choice of origin to matter in some way (or eliminate it).

[justicebeliever]

I am still unclear why we think the majority characters would be locked out of the content

 

1.) Everyone has an origin...everyone would have some kind of ability to access new content

 

2.) Content would be optional...there is zero chance that everyone is going jump into new content if it is offered, but for a large part of the base (at least I would have assumed before this post) new content would be welcome...

 

3.) I am assuming content would come from the community...I mean at this point they are taking volunteers and even suggested for some projects that the community design it, talk it over with the devs and go from there...I mean it might have sub par writing...but unless they are going to hire a professional writer, that is as close as any new content is going to get to happening...And if they are going to hire a professional writer, then it's a whole new ball game.

 

I was hoping that brainstorming would develop some possibilities for the community to rally against...

 

Vanden, are you at all in favor of any new content?  And if so, what are your thoughts?  (I'm not being sarcastic here, genuinely inquisitive)

 

EggKooKoo, keep up the good fight!  :)

[jack_nomind]

I agree that origins were not set up for this purpose. Frankly I'm not sure what they were meant for. I have trouble swallowing that they were created solely as a gate for enhancements, especially since they feature so prominently in character creation. I suspect the devs had some kind of content-related intentions behind them but didn't have time or resources to make it happen.

 

In one early iteration of CoH, significant powers (perhaps all powers; you'd have to find someone who played or at least saw it in alpha or very very early beta.  My understanding is that power pools worked much as they do now, and gave all-access powers) were locked to origin.  Even though the game shifted to archetype and set locking, origins were deeply embedded into both a certain idea of the game... and the character set-up.  Origin Enhancements were the compromised remnant of the original concept.

 

In the Cryptic era, there were still plans to make Origins relevant because -- as many people in the thread have noted -- they feel incomplete or vestigial.  (They are.)  Every idea that was floated ended up being either infeasible for technical reasons (requiring a lot of continued development and maintenance) or for gameplay reasons (locking characters into or out of things retroactively and arbitrarily was seen as a poor decision).  The decision was made to use Origins to market cosmetic and theme items, hence the Super Boosters and the Origin Power Pools.

 

I don't have a problem with mission arcs that are locked to specific origins, for the record -- so long as they don't award powers, badges, or merits.  The argument for it would probably be more compelling if someone proposing the idea actually wrote one and prototyped it in MA.

[EggKookoo]

I don't have a problem with mission arcs that are locked to specific origins, for the record -- so long as they don't award powers, badges, or merits.  The argument for it would probably be more compelling if someone proposing the idea actually wrote one and prototyped it in MA.

 

I am dying to get into MA but honestly I'm just having too much fun playing the game right now.

[Vanden]

Vanden, are you at all in favor of any new content?  And if so, what are your thoughts?  (I'm not being sarcastic here, genuinely inquisitive)

 

This thread isn't about adding new content, it's about making character origins matter. And that, I'm against, and I like to think at this point I've made it clear why.

[justicebeliever]

Vanden, are you at all in favor of any new content?  And if so, what are your thoughts?  (I'm not being sarcastic here, genuinely inquisitive)

 

This thread isn't about adding new content, it's about making character origins matter. And that, I'm against, and I like to think at this point I've made it clear why.

 

Apologies Vanden.  I wasn’t clear and you just cleared something up for me. 

 

I was unclear - I wasn’t wondering your thoughts on this thread - you’ve been very clear.  I was wondering just your thoughts on new content in general.  I really wasn’t trying to be trying earlier (though my family would say that sometimes I don’t have to try too hard).

 

As for clarity...I posted specifically about new content, because for me that is what this is about.  Not trying to lock you into new origin specific game mechanics that you are stuck with, and that any ideas would be player optional, not forced on them. 

 

So maybe adding story lore based on origin, similar to kheldians, but not forcing you to have a specific origin based foe that is dogging you from lvl 1 - 50.  Nor locking or changing your powers based on origin either.  Maybe this changes your mind, maybe not...but wanted to clarify my thoughts

[justicebeliever]

I don't have a problem with mission arcs that are locked to specific origins, for the record -- so long as they don't award powers, badges, or merits.  The argument for it would probably be more compelling if someone proposing the idea actually wrote one and prototyped it in MA.

 

Jack, we already have story arcs with powers, badges and merits.  Why would new origin specific ones be different?

[Leogunner]

There’s no way to write one-size-fits-all content using origins as a base.

 

I feel like you're trying to apply an impossible standard to the idea and then rejecting it because it can't live up to that standard. CoH already sends your "Superman" and "Batman" on missions to clear gang members from warehouses, and then into portals into other dimensions/timelines to fight aliens. No one's head explodes. If you're deeply into your concept as a street vigilante, you just bypass the content that doesn't fit that. Adding origin-themed/oriented mission content would just be more of that. And the vast majority of players aren't so deeply into their concept that they filter missions based on some kind of setting or genre standard.

 

Frankly I'm baffled at resistance to the idea of making some aspect of the game more interesting. I mean I expect people to say it's unworkable or possibly confusing or even flat out impossible without a a major code overhaul, but if your objection amounts to "that might make me have an opinion about my origin" I'm kind of at a loss...

 

Your suggestion is to make origin more meaningful. How does adding mission arcs themed around origins make our choice of origin for our characters more meaningful? If you limit the content to just characters of matching alignment, all you've done is add a mechanic that excludes 4/5ths of characters from running it. If anyone can run it, that literally describes all the content already in the game.

 

Yes, the game already sends us to fight gang bangers and dimensional invaders alike. What it doesn't do is cloak that in some kind of theme, saying "the gang bangers are for Natural and the dimensional invaders are for Science."

 

Firstly, with all due respect: no one cares.  No one cares if the gang bangers are natural, mutant or omnipotent cosmic beings.  What matters is WHAT they're doing, likely pushing drugs, stealing money, fighting for turf, etc.  It also doesn't matter if the dimensional invaders are Science, Natural or Mutation (*spoiler*), it matters HOW they invade.  Most Street-based heroes don't have the means or connections to stop a space fleet from pushing into our dimension without contrively linking them up with an individual who just so happens to have all the tech and knowledge BUT doesn't want to get off their duff and do the job themselves.

 

Secondly, I believe, to the OP's discredit, that the idea is to morph and combine ideas.  It's not set in stone what SHOULD or HOW origins could be emphasized.  I'm going to go off on a limb and say he's already conceded to YOUR points of people not being able to be held accountable for their choice of origin so some means of circumventing or bypassing that choice is likely the solution to your misgivings.

 

Thirdly, I read someone else's post about RP and character concept and how good RPers find ways to FIT into the lore of the game while also being creative.

 

Post here: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,5323.msg42264.html#msg42264

 

Point in question here:

And the reason I do that is because the whole point of roleplaying in a given setting is to accept the premise of the setting. The premise has rules. If you don't follow the rules, you should have a good reason why you aren't. If you aren't and have no reason other than 'just because,' then you aren't really interested in roleplaying in the setting, you're just power tripping. Anybody can make a titan weapons/invulnerability tanker and then write them off as an Omnidimensional Evil Overlord with incomprehensible cosmic power, but that would be boring, trite, and also kind of dishonest to the setting. If you want to RP a particular character concept, you should make, at least, a good-faith effort to replicate a reasonable facsimile of it in-game.

 

To that extent, I'd argue, if you're TRYING to push boundaries with regards to origin that you then hold the entire concept of powers origins hostage, and how they interact with stories, in what fashion can we rectify THAT?  That should be the question rather than "how can we not upset those individuals who might just be a minority or under the assumption their power-tripping is how their experience should be?".

 

I'm not really sure why you're bringing up "power-tripping" roleplayers or people who intentionally roleplay characters that don't fit into the setting. I'm saying that if someone says "I'm going to write a story for all the Natural heroes, it'll be a gritty noir story about a murder mystery," that sort of story is not going to connect with a Natural character who's an alien, or a dragon, or something. Those aren't wild or out-there character concepts for a game about superheroes. I'm just saying that coming at content from the angle of "this will be the story for Natural/Magic/etc. characters" is doomed to fail.

 

The obvious answer to this reply is "Then don't play it".

 

The other answer to your next possible question of "well what if my character isn't natural but wants to do the gritty noir story about a murder mystery" is the option would be there...it would just be LABLED as a Natural story.

[jack_nomind]

Jack, we already have story arcs with powers, badges and merits.  Why would new origin specific ones be different?

 

It's impossible to be locked out of any of the current powers or badges.  I think there are some single-merit arcs that may be inaccessible for e.g. non-Praetorian starts, but nothing more substantial.

[Vanden]

I'm not really sure why you're bringing up "power-tripping" roleplayers or people who intentionally roleplay characters that don't fit into the setting. I'm saying that if someone says "I'm going to write a story for all the Natural heroes, it'll be a gritty noir story about a murder mystery," that sort of story is not going to connect with a Natural character who's an alien, or a dragon, or something. Those aren't wild or out-there character concepts for a game about superheroes. I'm just saying that coming at content from the angle of "this will be the story for Natural/Magic/etc. characters" is doomed to fail.

 

The obvious answer to this reply is "Then don't play it".

 

Well that's the rub. Why write a story with such a targeted audience in such a way that it alienates a large portion of that audience?

[EggKookoo]

Well that's the rub. Why write a story with such a targeted audience in such a way that it alienates a large portion of that audience?

 

Let me reframe it. Let's say we introduce a new arc, available to all players. However, some of the specific content in that arc makes reference to your origin. Some of the choices are shaped by your origin. The overall flavor and tone of the arc is informed by your origin. Does it feel like you're locked out of content because it's tailored for you when you run it, and tailored for me when I do?

[Vanden]

Well that's the rub. Why write a story with such a targeted audience in such a way that it alienates a large portion of that audience?

 

Let me reframe it. Let's say we introduce a new arc, available to all players. However, some of the specific content in that arc makes reference to your origin. Some of the choices are shaped by your origin. The overall flavor and tone of the arc is informed by your origin. Does it feel like you're locked out of content because it's tailored for you when you run it, and tailored for me when I do?

It would likely miss the mark on a large portion of players' interpretations of their characters, and be a wasted effort.

[justicebeliever]

Jack, we already have story arcs with powers, badges and merits.  Why would new origin specific ones be different?

 

It's impossible to be locked out of any of the current powers or badges.  I think there are some single-merit arcs that may be inaccessible for e.g. non-Praetorian starts, but nothing more substantial.

 

I get that, but if there were 5 different story arcs, and each one had an equivalent power and badge and merits, then I don't see the issue.

 

Maybe the powers could be also bought at the P2W vendor, but become more powerful if you do the origin story arc...No different than Nemesis Staff or Blackwand - you can't use both equally well

 

And completion of any of the 5 arcs could give the same badge, so there would be a badge for doing the content.

 

And if the merits are balanced the same, then no one is denied their fair share...

[OEM61]

Having Origins does mean something to a lot of players. If anything I think it would be more interesting to add a couple more Origins.

 

Ideas for simple ways to make Origins more relevant?

-Some origin specific costume sets (in name only, these would be available to all for use. AS IT SHOULD BE)

 

I get that with where the game is now that this is the likely outcome of such an addition; If they added "Origin-specific costume pieces" then everyone would get them.

 

But why call them "Origin-specific costume pieces" at all if they are not limited to specific origins?

 

I am not defending that;  I think that all costume pieces should be available to every origin, AT, whatever.

But this is not adding "Origin-specific costume pieces", it's adding costume pieces.

 

Calling something a "technology helmet" or "mutant boots" wouldn't change that.  If it's available to everyone then it's not an "origin-specific costume piece".

 

Origin-based content is a fool’s errand, because there’s so many different ways origins can be played. There’s no way to write one-size-fits-all content using origins as a base. The Juggernaut and Dr. Strange are both Magic origin characters, but they couldn’t be more different otherwise. Batman and Superman are both Natural origin, but the things they deal with are on completely different scales. It’s far more sensible to do what the devs did, and just write the interesting content they could without trying to shoehorn some connection to the player character that’s likely to miss the mark.

 

The Circle of Thorns is in the game.

Is it a "fool's errand" to write missions that use them as the enemy?

 

Crey is in the game.

Is it a fool's errand to write missions with them as the enemy?

 

Then it is not a fool's errand to write stories for magic or technology heroes that use those groups as the enemy.

 

My magic character is not a spellcaster.  They are a lot closer to Juggernaut in the sense that they are just fueled by a magical source.

That doesn't stop the "magic contacts" from sending him on the same missions that they send the spellcasters on.

That doesn't stop the contacts in the game from sending him on the same missions that they send natural, science, technology, or mutant characters on.

 

The power gap between Batman and Superman is a construct in the comics, not in this game.

It doesn't matter what origin you gave your character or what powers you selected, the missions are the missions and if your headcanon doesn't allow for certain level-appropriate enemies to be a threat to your "Superman" then that is your problem.

 

=============

 

Not going to edit what I have already wrote, but will add some things based upon recent responses:

 

The natural story, to use a mentioned example, doesn't have to be a "gritty noir murder mystery".

That story isn't about natural characters, it's about detective heroes.  You keep trying to shove things into the conversation that the game itself doesn't seem to suggest.

 

What do natural heroes do out of the gate?  They fight some Council, they fight some Skulls, they talk to the Security Chief and fight some Hellions.

And then when they are through with all of that, they get introduced to some contacts that seem to specialize in the Lost, so now they are dealing with that faction.

 

Where is the "gritty noir murder mystery" that you think they have to do to stake themselves out as natural heroes?

 

How many "gritty noir murder mysteries" are there in the game, anyway?

 

Of course, you are not limited to your origin contact anymore, and so the natural character can end up fighting Vazhilok or Clockwork out of the gate if they would rather, but I am still looking for those "gritty noir murder mysteries" that you seem to think natural characters must be involved in.

The closest I can think of on any regular basis are the Vazhilok.  Not really gritty or noir, but they are definitely behind some murders.

 

But I suggested that they use the Council for natural characters.

 

Why neither Batman nor Superman could enjoy an arc where they are trying to stop the Council from taking over the world I will never know.

[Vanden]

Having Origins does mean something to a lot of players. If anything I think it would be more interesting to add a couple more Origins.

 

Ideas for simple ways to make Origins more relevant?

-Some origin specific costume sets (in name only, these would be available to all for use. AS IT SHOULD BE)

 

I get that with where the game is now that this is the likely outcome of such an addition; If they added "Origin-specific costume pieces" then everyone would get them.

 

But why call them "Origin-specific costume pieces" at all if they are not limited to specific origins?

 

I am not defending that;  I think that all costume pieces should be available to every origin, AT, whatever.

But this is not adding "Origin-specific costume pieces", it's adding costume pieces.

 

Calling something a "technology helmet" or "mutant boots" wouldn't change that.  If it's available to everyone then it's not an "origin-specific costume piece".

 

Origin-based content is a fool’s errand, because there’s so many different ways origins can be played. There’s no way to write one-size-fits-all content using origins as a base. The Juggernaut and Dr. Strange are both Magic origin characters, but they couldn’t be more different otherwise. Batman and Superman are both Natural origin, but the things they deal with are on completely different scales. It’s far more sensible to do what the devs did, and just write the interesting content they could without trying to shoehorn some connection to the player character that’s likely to miss the mark.

 

The Circle of Thorns is in the game.

Is it a "fool's errand" to write missions that use them as the enemy?

 

Crey is in the game.

Is it a fool's errand to write missions with them as the enemy?

 

Then it is not a fool's errand to write stories for magic or technology heroes that use those groups as the enemy.

 

My magic character is not a spellcaster.  They are a lot closer to Juggernaut in the sense that they are just fueled by a magical source.

That doesn't stop the "magic contacts" from sending him on the same missions that they send the spellcasters on.

That doesn't stop the contacts in the game from sending him on the same missions that they send natural, science, technology, or mutant characters on.

 

The power gap between Batman and Superman is a construct in the comics, not in this game.

It doesn't matter what origin you gave your character or what powers you selected, the missions are the missions and if your headcanon doesn't allow for certain level-appropriate enemies to be a threat to your "Superman" then that is your problem.

 

=============

 

Not going to edit what I have already wrote, but will add some things based upon recent responses:

 

The natural story, to use a mentioned example, doesn't have to be a "gritty noir murder mystery".

That story isn't about natural characters, it's about detective heroes.  You keep trying to shove things into the conversation that the game itself doesn't seem to suggest.

 

What do natural heroes do out of the gate?  They fight some Council, they fight some Skulls, they talk to the Security Chief and fight some Hellions.

And then when they are through with all of that, they get introduced to some contacts that seem to specialize in the Lost, so now they are dealing with that faction.

 

Where is the "gritty noir murder mystery" that you think they have to do to stake themselves out as natural heroes?

 

How many "gritty noir murder mysteries" are there in the game, anyway?

 

Of course, you are not limited to your origin contact anymore, and so the natural character can end up fighting Vazhilok or Clockwork out of the gate if they would rather, but I am still looking for those "gritty noir murder mysteries" that you seem to think natural characters must be involved in.

The closest I can think of on any regular basis are the Vazhilok.  Not really gritty or noir, but they are definitely behind some murders.

 

But I suggested that they use the Council for natural characters.

 

Why neither Batman nor Superman could enjoy an arc where they are trying to stop the Council from taking over the world I will never know.

 

I don't know how you could write the first half of this post and then turn around and write the second. Using the Circle of Thorns as an enemy group in a story does not make it a story for Magic Origin characters, it makes it a story with the Circle of Thorns. I'm not objecting to them adding new content or stories, I'm objecting to them adding those stories and trying to tie them into our characters for us. You say you have a Juggernaut type of character, empowered by magic but generally ignorant of its workings; what if they wrote a Circle of Thorns story and, seeing you have a magic origin, gave you an objective to perform some ritual, because as a Magic origin character you must know how to do it? That would completely fall flat as a way of connecting the story to your character. That's what I'm objecting to, that's the fool's errand.

[TheBlindGirl]

I notice that none of the people suggesting that content be created in such a way that only a small fraction of characters will be able to run it are offering to invest the time and effort necessary to create such intentionally limited content themselves. Isn't that curious.

[justicebeliever]

I notice that none of the people suggesting that content be created in such a way that only a small fraction of characters will be able to run it are offering to invest the time and effort necessary to create such intentionally limited content themselves. Isn't that curious.

 

Huh?

[jack_nomind]

And completion of any of the 5 arcs could give the same badge, so there would be a badge for doing the content.

 

Sure, that's fine too, so long as they're all roughly comparable in length.