Suggestions for Issue 28.

[The Chairman]

21 hours ago, DrIlluminatis said:

Oh I didn't know she died because when I logged in she was one of the Contacts for the Valentine event, and I don't think I've done that TF / Event where she dies

 

Jessica Megan Duncan, the Valentine's Event contact, is Ms. Liberty in street clothes. Her mother, Miss Liberty, is named Alexis Cole-Duncan.

[KingCeddd03]

But I think they should continue the meta story before it was shut down

Edited March 23 by KingCeddd03

[Razor Cure]

On 3/20/2024 at 7:07 AM, biostem said:

I don't think Ms. Liberty should change sides.  What would be interesting is if Dominatrix snuck into our dimension and started committing crimes, posing as Ms. Liberty, though.  Maybe add in some vigilante and rogue contacts and flesh out that aspect of the game a bit more?

I like this idea! Similar to the Arcs with our Dopplegangers. We could have a new (Sig Hero) Name TaskForce, where the contact (in world modle and icon in the text) is the 'right person,' and teh arc starts out all heroic and stuff. Slowly, some of the missions take on a more villainous slant (kill someone, instead of arrest), and the character modle changes into their evil version.

[biostem]

49 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

I like this idea! Similar to the Arcs with our Dopplegangers. We could have a new (Sig Hero) Name TaskForce, where the contact (in world modle and icon in the text) is the 'right person,' and teh arc starts out all heroic and stuff. Slowly, some of the missions take on a more villainous slant (kill someone, instead of arrest), and the character modle changes into their evil version.

She could even present that there's this rogue element of Longbow that you need to deal with, all the while you're attacking "good" ones, then the true plot gets unveiled.

[DrIlluminatis]

On 3/21/2024 at 9:58 PM, Rudra said:

Miss Liberty only shows up a few times. She shows up in the flashback arc where you bring Recluse to power in the Rogue Isles, and she shows up in the arc where she dies in Episode 3 of Who Will die in Warburg.

 

Edit: Mender Tesseract is the contact for the story arc that puts Recluse in power if you didn't know. Level 25-34 story arc. Agent Kwahu in Founder's Falls and Fortunata Gossamer in St. Martial are the contacts for Episode 3 of Who Will Die. Both are level 30-40.

Thanks I've been lax on my Ouroborous missions, I'll check it when I get time....

[Vic Raiden]

12 hours ago, biostem said:

She could even present that there's this rogue element of Longbow that you need to deal with, all the while you're attacking "good" ones, then the true plot gets unveiled.

If you mean Ms. Liberty herself, I heavily doubt it could go like that given she was the one who founded Longbow in the first place. But were she to indeed turn evil, I imagine she'd still have at least some part of Longbow forces follow her.

[biostem]

7 hours ago, Vic Raiden said:

If you mean Ms. Liberty herself, I heavily doubt it could go like that given she was the one who founded Longbow in the first place. But were she to indeed turn evil, I imagine she'd still have at least some part of Longbow forces follow her.

No, I was referring to the hypothetical of Dominatrix masquerading as Ms. Liberty, and as part of her ruse, she sends you to defeat some "renegade Longbow", who are actually not renegade at all...

[Vic Raiden]

Ah, right. I completely forgot that Dominatrix exists. Yeah, that'd make more sense... but I can tell a lot of people would rather betray her once the truth got revealed.

[DrIlluminatis]

On 3/20/2024 at 3:39 PM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

how about something like age of apocalypse in the 90's

someone uses oro and twists things up so

red side is now blue

and blue side is now red

completing tip quests helps repair the timestream

timestream is repaired in the next issue and

its changes are the leftover effects from us meddling with time

Biggest problem with this idea is that it effects all players. the biggest issue is can it be done in the games engine? how long would it last? does it effect all players? The idea has merit, if doable, in that you could clear up the big continuity errors cropping up in game lore and it could be used as a soft reboot.  Would be cool to see Statesman and Sister Psyche be the main NPC's  for this idea all the while knowing that they are basically signing their own Death Warrants by fixing the Time Stream. 

-This idea could be doable if you limit players only to Ouroborous for the duration of the event. (no matter how many instances you'd need to do it) Have about 3 Heroic Red side and 3 Villainous Blue Side Menders assigning missions, TF / SF's  etc to Players.  To Repair the Time Stream you'd have to "Fix" various Mission sets across all Level Ranges. That way if you want to play with more than one character of your own, you can do so. If players need access to regular Game areas, Keep Praetoria zones open for that.

Once the event is over you now have access to the entire game again, with various updates (like for example, a totally restored Boomtown, Certain characters back from the dead or Updated Characters with New Codenames costumes etc.)

[Chris24601]

Regarding some of the elements here;

 

Yeah, they were originally setting up Scirroco and Ice Mistrel to defect in a story arc that would unlock the patron power sets for heroes without ever needing to switch sides to get them.

 

Mu’Drakhan was being set up to replace him as the Mu Mystic head and one of the four patrons (basically, they’d reframe Scirocco’s patron arcs as being handed out by Mu’Drakhan… dealing with the Genie (now allied with Scirocco), stopping a plan by Scirocco’s, dealing with the goddess, et al.

 

Meanwhile it sounded like Manticore was going to go full Vigilante (which actually makes his Wyvern organization in the Rogue Isles a bit more lore consistent as they’ve always been referred to as Vigilantes over there.

 

As for Dominatrix, last we’d canonically heard, she and Emperor Cole were awaiting trial for crimes against humanity; but there was talk of putting her into some sort of release program under Ms. Liberty’s oversight.

 

There had also been plans down the line for a desperate gamble to rally everyone against the Battalion was going to involve Emperor Cole dress up and pretend to be Statesman back from the dead and die in a last heroic blaze of glory remembering who he’d been before he’d started making compromises and became Emperor.

 

* * * *
 

Personally though, I think the devs should be really careful about advancing the timeline too much… as the timeline has already become something of a Hawkman-ish continuity snarl compared to the original plan of the timeline roughly corresponding to your level.

 

The biggest culprit was the “Who Will Die?” Signature Story Arc and the decision to reframe the Portal Corps Praetorian arcs (which are still before the Incarnate trials in the timeline) as occurring after Stateman’s death… and then dropping in post-I-trial content starting as low as level 35…

 

… Well, the whole kit and kaboodle of that needs to be sorted out I think before we go pushing out stuff that advances the timeline… particularly when discussing adding it as pre-level 50 material.

 

As an example; the suggestion was to have Scirocco defect and set up in Faultline… the level 15-25 zone… and give out missions or a TF.

 

Then you get to level 50 and there he is, still working for Arachnos.

 

* * * *

I think straighten out these issues; many of which can be corrected just by changing some of the dialogue, should be the foundation for issue 28. CoH has a new shot at life and so it’s fitting that it get back into shape so it can go forward stronger.

 

Step one, from my perspective, would be to return to the original model of level = point on the timeline.

 

This works for both the older material and Oroboros in general. The game beginning “Post-Death of Statesman” and in the lead up to the Praetorian War is fine, but that does mean that a few things should be tweaked.

 

1) Move the “Who Will Die?” arcs to exclusively Oroboros content. It is now something that happened before the heroes got their start. Heck, introduce a new Mender specifically as the contact for them.

 

Related to this, consolidate the second Signature Arc into a single contact on Peregrine Island. The content is good, it’s just rather hard to find or play in order until it drops into Oroboros.

 

2) Update the Penelope Yin model in Faultline and the Lady Grey TF to make it clearly the modern Penny in civies instead of Penny suddenly 5 years younger than when you run into her in Independence Port in what is essentially the same level range (the easy way would be to just swap the baseball cap and ponytail for the club hair her modern model sports). She’s in Faultline because her father is missing and wants your help finding him. Now all the times you get sent to Penny (that used to be to Sister Psyche) she’ll not be two radically different ages; just in different spots and outfits like Ms. Liberty can be in Atlas, IP, and periodically in Pocket D in civies.

 

3) Now for something a little more ambitious. Let’s do the Scirocco switching sides arc and set it at the same level range as the existing Patron Arcs (so level 35). Make it a Hero and Rogue accessible arc that concludes with Scirocco unlocking access to the Patron Pools for the PC.

 

At the same time, swap out Scirocco as Patron and Ice Mistral as Strike Force contact Redside with Mu’Drakhan and a new lieutenant. Similarly, add Manticore as a Vigilante contact with a Patron arc involving stealing the power of an Arachnos patron to use it against them (a classic vigilante mission type in CoH).

 

For those keeping score at home that’s two new arcs (Scirocco and Manticore), and some rewriting of Scirocco/Ice Mistral’s arcs on par with how Penny replaced Sister Psyche and Ms. Liberty replaced Stateman.

 

4) Now for a bigger revamp; let’s fix the Praetorian War.

 

a) Move the two Praetorian Portal Corps mission arcs (Tina and Maria) to the Rikti Warzone now that it has its own portal device (both arcs featured Vanguard soldiers at points and Vanguard is coordinating things regarding Praetoria in general).

 

More importantly, this means those arcs can be lowered to level 35 and made sequential (as the other zone contacts are; completing Tina unlocks Maria). This corresponds to the tail end of Night Ward (for those running pure Praetorian) and to the start of the New Praetorians arc.

 

b) Expand Belladonna’s arc, which will no longer be Incarnate-tier, but unlocked by finishing Maria’s arc. It too will  be launched from the Vanguard base (instead of random Night Ward portals).

 

What will be added to it are stripped down single-player/team versions of the I-trial stories (Tinpex, BAF, Lambda, TPN, etc. except Diabolique’s) so they can be played in chronological order and free to take the time to read the flavor text). The map assets already exist; cut scenes already exist; the main factor would be scaling and simplifying mechanics so a single player can complete them; Throwing in members of Vanguard as allied NPCs as needed to make it work (maybe breaking off/tping out for a couple of the “group needs to deal with multiple things at once” elements leaving the player with just the more mechanically interesting/more story driven path).

 

c) The existing Tinpex and I-Trials are retained, but reframed as “Hard Mode” activities.

 

d) Completing Belladonna’s arc unlocks the New Praetorians (and Villain equivalent) arcs. Minor point; expand John Houston’s level range to 50 so it can be completed after the New Praetorians (as it follows up on events where it left off).

 

e) Number Six and Dark Astoria unlock as normal, but with some tweaking to Dark Astoria such that it is occurring AFTER rather than concurrent with the Praetorian War.

 

i.e. the threat of Mot has forced the now heroic Scirocco (who still suffers guilt from his time as a villain) and Ice Mistral into alliance with Mu’Drakhan (and the personal story reframed as Mu’Drakhan remembering when he first began to usurp his former boss). Dominatrix and Diabolique both escaped to Primal Earth rather than fight a losing battle for Cole and its just a personal vendetta that drives their part of the story (and ends with Domi getting devoured then captured and awaiting trial after that and Diabolique doing her iTrial)… the Praetorians with Dominatrix are the last of her loyalists and she whines a bit more about losing them since they’re not so easily replaced.

 

5) The idea for all of the above is to get the timeline smoothed out so that you don’t have to backtrack through Oroboros to experience it in the order it actually occurred in. It also clears the deck for the Battalion’s arrival via space gate (presumably what is being built in Galaxy City’s ruins) and the new upgraded level 50-54 villain groups as the main “endgame” tier content.

 

6) I am certain there are bits I’m missing, but that would be my starting point for an Issue 28… fix the foundation so it’s possible for someone new to the lore to follow what’s going on.

 

* * * *
 

Stretch goals:

 

- More rogue content set in Blueside and vigilante content set in Redside.

 

- More high level (35+ when leveling starts to slow, but particularly 40+ where there is a complete dearth of “not working for Arachnos” content Redside) Rogue/Vigilante content in general.

 

- Clear labeling of Rogue (stealing/robbing) vs. Villain (destroying people’s lives, inflicting mutations and diseases) content so those who care about such things can avoid it.

 

- A Shadow Shard revamp that includes Villain access and Rogue/Villan repeatable missions (they can already reach the gate via the RWZ), perhaps even reframing it (or parts of it; i.e. The Storm Palace) like Dark Astoria into an Incarnate zone. Maybe some zone story missions akin to Faultline/Croatoa/RWZ would be in order too (this could also solve the “more high level rogue content” request as well).

 

- For a massively ambitious stretch goal, create level 40-50 versions of the Praetorian zones in the midst of the war (barricades, IDF on the streets, etc.) into which the Belladonna arc could be dropped. Maybe in reverse order with Neutropolis as the 40-45 zone, Imperial as 45-50, and a cratered Nova as 50+ Incarnate zone infested with Hamidon’s forces that is unlocked after defeating Imperious in Belladonna’s arc.

 

- Also ambitious; fill in Kallisti Wharf with hero, villain, rogue and vigilante contacts and villain groups on the streets.

[lemming]

1 hour ago, Chris24601 said:

Regarding some of the elements here;

Just wanted to note that your suggestions are better aligned than most I've seen since you referenced all the various spots.   I'm not sure I'm fully on board with everything you suggested, but I wouldn't mind it. 😉

 

One way I keep things sort of straight in my own head canon, especially for my badger,  is that my character is aware that time shenanigans exist and that the various badges and experiences are from how splintered the timeline is.

[Chris24601]

I’ll admit, some parts of my recommendations get tailored to “what is within the realms of what the devs could realistically accomplish?”

 

Changing text boxes to get the timeline smoother? Reasonably trivial provided you know what needs to be changed.

 

Making SSA1 Oroboros-only is no more difficult than moving their contacts to Oroboros and maybe reskinning them with Mender costumes.

 

Moving Tina and Maria to the RWZ and pointing their portal missions to the portal there? Similar.

 

Scaling them down to level 35? Depends a lot on whether the various mobs have level 35-39 versions.

 

Belladonna’s arc? Maps already exist for the trial zones. If set to level 40-50 I think all the mobs are available sans maybe some of the Incarnate-tier Devouring Earth (Avatar of Hamidon mainly; the rest I think show up via the issue 24 Red-side equivalent to the New Praetorians as low as level 35). The script has been written. The main work for the Devs would involve making the multiplayer raid mechanics into something a single player wouldn’t be overwhelmed by.

 

The Scirocco heel-face turn? The old devs once described the plan for it in broad strokes, but it would be a brand new mission chain. Still, the Piecemeal personal story with an original map and a whole new mechanic with the gravity springs has shown me that there’s nothing in that broad strokes plan that the HC wouldn’t be able to handle (I don’t know that it would even require custom maps or mobs). The trickiest part might be letting both heroes and rogues run it.

 

Ditto for a Manticore as vigilante arc only less well documented. My idea behind the “Steal a Patron’s powers” arc is basically to have a way for Vigilantes and Villains who don’t want to be an Arachnos toady to unlock the Patron pools.

 

Other than changing the unlock conditions, the two i24 post-Praetorian War arcs are unchanged, as would be Number Sixs. Dark Astoria just needs a small bit of dialogue tweaking around Scirocco and Dominatrix.

 

Anything past that is pure Stretch Goal for me for an issue 28 concept.

 

Realistically, something like an “Age of Apocalypse” EVENT just isn’t going to be practical… first and foremost because a lot of players would resent having their characters disrupted to take place in a forced faction-swap event. I know it happens in comics, but people resent the hell out of it there too.

 

An AoA-like Story arc on the other hand would probably be doable. Fun fact; Age of Apocalypse wasn’t actually a Flashpoint-like alteration of the timeline. Back then Marvel still cared about keeping its time travel rules consistent so one important side plot (the one involving AoA Gambit) was that in that timeline Phoenix had never stablized the M’Kraan Crystal using the Phoenix so it was causing parallel universes/timelines to crystallize (what happened to the 616 universe during AoA). Gambit’s team stabilized their universe’s crystal, which then unfroze the main 616 universe.

 

That’s pretty much a very long way of saying something AoA-like is actually a very solid Portal Corps story arc involving how something different happening in that dimension will end up cascading into THIS dimension unless it’s stopped. Stopping it requires you to deal with all manner of alternate Primal characters in the process (including a doppelgänger of yourself).

 

Make it the focus of an issue and I could see that justifying a new zone and string of contacts for it.

 

Best of all… involvement would be voluntary so it wouldn’t tick off anyone who didn’t want to be involved.

[DrIlluminatis]

Just a note, Once Manticore goes full Vigilante, His Association with Freedom Phalanx becomes "Problematic", So you can either handle it one of 2 ways. Either he's totally kicked out of the group, and he needs to be removed from Fort Trident and Brickstown (He'll need to be removed from Brickstown, either way. ) or he's still a member, just more on the not appearing with them in Public member and more on the providing them Intel and going with them on more covert missions, more in tune with his new alignment, he can still appear in Fort Trident in this case. If he gets totally kicked from the group, Scirocco shouldn't replace him in FP, but maybe if you all get around to making a signature Sentinel character, they can replace him in Freedom Phalanx

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, DrIlluminatis said:

Just a note, Once Manticore goes full Vigilante, His Association with Freedom Phalanx becomes "Problematic", So you can either handle it one of 2 ways. Either he's totally kicked out of the group, and he needs to be removed from Fort Trident and Brickstown (He'll need to be removed from Brickstown, either way. ) or he's still a member, just more on the not appearing with them in Public member and more on the providing them Intel and going with them on more covert missions, more in tune with his new alignment, he can still appear in Fort Trident in this case. If he gets totally kicked from the group, Scirocco shouldn't replace him in FP, but maybe if you all get around to making a signature Sentinel character, they can replace him in Freedom Phalanx

I can definitely see option 2. While Manticore has always been a bit ruthless, he is also a proven and valued member of the Freedom Phalanx. So they aren't likely to kick him out. Not just for being the vigilante he already is in game, alignment notwithstanding.