Avilans 2.0 - revisiting an old, discarded EAT idea from live.

[Greycat]

I looked back at my old (from live) guide to the status of EATs - live, dead, ongoing/unknown - thanks to another post. One of the very first ones to go from "proposed" to "dead" were... Avilans. These were a winged AT, proposed as a way to give players wings when they thought putting them in as a costume piece would be "too difficult."

 

Obviously, we have wings and no Avilans.

 

So, I thought to myself... why not fix that? What would this look like if we brought these into the game now?

 

Now... yes, this is almost more of a thought experiment than a suggestion. EATs were a handful and a half for the *live* devs - not least because they also involved writing 1-50 story arcs (EATs being tied to bits of lore, after all - I always looked at them as being "deep dives," the points where COH went deep instead of wide in its story.) It'd be even more of a handful for our much smaller, volunteer team.

 

But still - I thought it might be interesting to come up with a take on them. So:

 

Avilans (2.0)

 

Theme: Speed and flight.

Setup - why are they here?

 

Avilans were an ancient offshoot or near-human species. In their eyries, they developed while wars and disease slowed humanity. They developed technology and magic of their own - and a blend of the two. However, as humanity advanced, their resemblance to such creatures as the Furies led "monster hunters" and "heroes" (small H) to start hunting them down. Never a *very* populous species, they fought - and retreated, eventually dwindling down to the highest places they controlled. Before Humanity could reach them, they enacted rites, shaping the landscape to hide their homes and putting them to sleep... for a time.

Now, with evidence of them having been found in the form of old bones and unusual tech and magical artefacts, curious (or greedy) humans have triggered their awakening. They've emerged into a vastly different world, one in which they'll work alongside humanity - or try to take out their vengeance for long-dead friends.

(Full set of blue, red, and crossover storyarcs, chance to cross over (change of heart)  at 15, 30, 45.)

Already in game:

 

We have ONE clue in game about them already, as you recover artefacts from the Hellions in the Hollows - a bone that looks human but hollow and lighter. (Honestly I'd like this to trigger something.)

Characteristics:

 

Wings are a must. All Avilans have them. Note, though, that they do *not* have to be feathered  - there can be costume pieces for emergent "points" for energy/magical wings. There are points where these *will* emerge during gameplay without "I turn on fly." Flight is inherent to them - it's their birthright, and they absolutely master the air.

 

Also - they've got the low end of resist caps (hollow bones, remember) and some vulnerability to knockback for the same reason - *though,* that's one of the points the wings emerge. They're knocked back, they instinctively brace themselves in the air and gain resistance to it for a time. So, if hit with (say) three KB attacks, the first *wiill* (ignoring IOs) knock you back, but instead of being on the ground you'll be hovering, wings out, the second will have little to no effect, and the third mostly gets a "... really, you're still doing this?" look from the character. 🙂

 

This will pretty much *not* be a character to tank with. But again... speed.

 

Won't take, or will take *very* minimal, damage from falling.

 

Damage increases with speed - while there aren't always maps you can take advantage of this, if you can drop on an enemy, you *do* get a damage bonus. But you don't have to *drop* at all. You start rushing an enemy, or continue kiting them (stay in motion,) you get that same damage bonus. Plus, the wings emerge for their own additional damage on top of it. (Likely Lethal plus something exotic.)

Where is it in combat?

 

(Fast) Melee, range (which should be obvious) and control. Melee's going to be similar to what some people request as "speedster" combat. You want to keep moving for that damage bonus (and probably +def too.)

 

Range... might be interesting to have "Movement = faster attacks, though lower damage, stationary = higher damage but longer recharge" to give some tactical/gameplay options.

 

Starting alignment:

 

None set. Not side restricted - but the starting side determines the start of your story chain and contacts. Are you of the mindset of "See if we can reach out to the humans - and others, wow - and work alongside each other, sharing our knowledge?" Or do you want vengeance for the long-dead and you'll start with the first human you see?

 

(Note this sets a hidden flag on the character. There are three change-of-heart crossover missions that can set their own as well, and will affect how contacts on the *other* side treat you, for good or bad. Mostly affects dialog.)

 

Visuals:

 

Really the main thing is the required wings (or emergence points for natural/magic/tech wings, for those that don't want wings on their back ALL the time - lorewise, have their culture have advanced enough that there's a lot of crossover between what's "natural," magical or technological.)

 

I do somewhat envision some of the attacks having wing-related options for visuals - ranged shooting quills (magic or otherwise,) for instance, melee "wing hits" leaving feathers at the combat site, talons emerging (even if not as a permanent costume piece - again, either showing up or sprouting magically/tech-ly) for up close slashing or other attacks.

 

Powersets:

 

Honestly haven't developed them. They'd have to be extended sets, much like Kheldians, with more choices to handle everything unique to them. (Unlike Khelds, these extended sets wouldn't leave anyone slot-starved more than any OTHER AT - they're not getting forms with their *own* set of powers, after all, and some of the powers would likely be one-slot wonders that wouldn't really need anything added.) Main thing is working with flight and *motion* as their theme and the source of buffs or power state changes.

 

Other thoughts:

 

This is an EAT. It's story based. Honestly, I'd kind of love it to have you rewarded for *going through the story,* rather than being PL'd 1-50 (which for me kind of misses the point of Epics.) Yes, you get reward merits, you have your own contact and story chain with their own rewards, but something like having your *own* ATOs drop if you're an Avilan finishing an Avilan arc, for starters, as a bonus for at least playing through the stories.  Other ATs wouldn't have them drop if they were playing along or Ouro-ing them. And yes, I'd extend this to the other EATs as well. You'd end up with 10-11 of them - the crossover arcs don't drop one. Maybe an Avilan themed TF - similar to Moonfire vis-a-vis Khelds - would drop them as well, and of course... market, merits and conversions.

 

There aren't many chances to fly while fighting and have that be the location and *point* of the fight. Yes, people hoverblast and such, but there are almost no midair fights. There *should* be - at least for these. Maybe some of what would need to be developed for these could go into underwater fights... and, well, another never-finished EAT, but that'd be another post.

 

(Further edits)

 

Lorewise... I kind of want Thoth (the ancient Egyptian god) to have either been or been inspired by an Avilan ambassador to deeply ancient Egypt. Obviously didn't have a bird head - that was put in as a representative of the fact he could fly.  And could also tie in to, say, Blood of the Black Stream being part of why they had to eventually go into hiding. Yes, I *do* want some ancient/modern Egyptian stuff going on in game, regardless!

 

Mapwise - some of the EAT-specific missions take place in EAT-specific *maps.* As in, designed for characters with flying, and after all they were defending in their last days. So there'll be gaps that "only" a flyer can cross easily. If you play the maps as a non-Avilan, but play with them on the team, what's essentially an invisible Group Fly generator lets you cross with them over the gaps, even if you don't have fly. (Similar to the Seed of Hami's buoyancy mito.) If you're ouroing it on a non-EAT and don't have fly, there'll be a way across - you'll just be hopping across rocks on the side, or (for areas that were attacked in the ancient past) having to find the invaders' tunnels to cross.

Edited March 28 by Greycat
Linkamadoodle.

[Rudra]

Okay, you're probably going to hate how I "dump on this", but some thoughts.

 

If the Avilans are to be brought back as an EAT, they would probably need to have a set appearance. Like with the Arachnos Soldiers, you start with a base model and you can change specific elements of it within the given range of options. So maybe different avian heads, different style wings and tails, different styles talons/claws, but otherwise locked into a set theme. They are after all, a race being presented as an AT. So either they would need to be defined as aves type or chiroptera types. Or some new type maybe. They can even follow in the current EAT footsteps and be broken out into 2 EATS, one for each type.

 

Then there are power sets. Maybe for primary they can go:

Talon Slash (ST Melee)

Feather Dart (ST Range)

Wing Gust (ST Range)

Shredding Talons (ST Melee)

Piercing Cry (ST Range)

Disorienting Cry (PBAoE Confuse or Stun)

Aerobatic Slash (PBAoE)

Aerobatic Charge (Teleport attack + KB)

 

With a choice as per the VEATs for either a tech-based group of attacks or a magic-based group of attacks, each set providing 10 more options for the EAT.

 

And then you could do something similar for their secondary set with a focus on a more SR or Ninjutsu build. Maybe like:

Agility (+DEF)

Feather Defense (+DEF, +Res Cold, Lethal)

Aggressive Flier (+ToHit)

Evasive Flier (+DEF)

Flock Leader: Evasion (Team +DEF)

Flock Leader: Assault (Team +DAM)

Flock Scout (+Perception, +Stealth)

Inhuman Mindset (+Res Psi, +DEF Psi)

 

And a matching shredout for tech or magic for supplemental abilities.

 

With hollow bones, they would be more vulnerable to smashing damage, but not the other damage types.

 

Edit:

For clarification, the Avilan shredouts can be chosen as part of character creation rather than having to respec into it like the VEATs. So they would immediately have access to both sets of power sets depending on their choice as they level. They could also have a starting contact that sends them to a Shaper (tailor) to create a disguise to move among the humans, explaining why players still have access to all their normal costume slots plus their Avilan costume slot like a VEAT.

Edited March 28 by Rudra

[Greycat]

I was debating a bit about "set appearance" - with what little we have, they should (generally) be able to "pass" as human, other than the wings. (I don't think anything was ever said about feet and such.) Talons and what not would make sense. Restricting some birdlike heads and such to them, though... there have been people requesting additional (and better...) animal heads, really tweaking and twisting costume pieces to look like beaks, etc that I didn't want to lock something like *that* behind it.

 

But if it pushes development of those, weell, I wouldn't argue. 🙂

 

The "more vulnerable to smashing" makes sense.

 

Not going to get *too* much into powers - like I said, I kind of envision an extended powerset to choose from - but the only thing that jumped to mind reading through is that something like "Aggressive flier" vs "Evasive flyer" *almost* sounds like what I was describing as being themed, in part, around motion (as far as effect.) So it would be one power - or part of the inherent, or split the difference - where, you're stationary or not moving *fast,* you don't have that +Def bonus (you're standiing still after all) but have better tohit, or you're moving and it's adding to the defense - in some ways, like momentum, conceptually, but without being anywhere near as annoying or making you sluggish. >.>

[Rudra]

Oh I'm not talking about locking costume parts behind the EAT. I'm just saying that the EAT should have a preset theme appearance with available modifications like how the VEATs do. I'm one of the ones that wants more head, wing, and tail options for our characters after all. So if any new bird costume pieces were to be made for the Avilans, then just like with some of the Arachnos only costume pieces, I would want that available for others too.

[Glacier Peak]

I think they should be locked behind either a series of Souvenir unlocks or badges to keep with the story progress then outcome, but then that would require a big lift to incorporate it through story arcs and contacts. 

[JasperStone]

Yes.

Make it so.

[TheMoneyMaker]

7 hours ago, Greycat said:

I looked back at my old (from live) guide to the status of EATs - live, dead, ongoing/unknown - thanks to another post. One of the very first ones to go from "proposed" to "dead" were... Avilans. These were a winged AT, proposed as a way to give players wings when they thought putting them in as a costume piece would be "too difficult."

 

Obviously, we have wings and no Avilans.

 

So, I thought to myself... why not fix that? What would this look like if we brought these into the game now?

 

Now... yes, this is almost more of a thought experiment than a suggestion. EATs were a handful and a half for the *live* devs - not least because they also involved writing 1-50 story arcs (EATs being tied to bits of lore, after all - I always looked at them as being "deep dives," the points where COH went deep instead of wide in its story.) It'd be even more of a handful for our much smaller, volunteer team.

 

But still - I thought it might be interesting to come up with a take on them. So:

 

Avilans (2.0)

 

Theme: Speed and flight.

Setup - why are they here?

 

Avilans were an ancient offshoot or near-human species. In their eyries, they developed while wars and disease slowed humanity. They developed technology and magic of their own - and a blend of the two. However, as humanity advanced, their resemblance to such creatures as the Furies led "monster hunters" and "heroes" (small H) to start hunting them down. Never a *very* populous species, they fought - and retreated, eventually dwindling down to the highest places they controlled. Before Humanity could reach them, they enacted rites, shaping the landscape to hide their homes and putting them to sleep... for a time.

Now, with evidence of them having been found in the form of old bones and unusual tech and magical artefacts, curious (or greedy) humans have triggered their awakening. They've emerged into a vastly different world, one in which they'll work alongside humanity - or try to take out their vengeance for long-dead friends.

(Full set of blue, red, and crossover storyarcs, chance to cross over (change of heart)  at 15, 30, 45.)

Already in game:

 

We have ONE clue in game about them already, as you recover artefacts from the Hellions in the Hollows - a bone that looks human but hollow and lighter. (Honestly I'd like this to trigger something.)

Characteristics:

 

Wings are a must. All Avilans have them. Note, though, that they do *not* have to be feathered  - there can be costume pieces for emergent "points" for energy/magical wings. There are points where these *will* emerge during gameplay without "I turn on fly." Flight is inherent to them - it's their birthright, and they absolutely master the air.

 

Also - they've got the low end of resist caps (hollow bones, remember) and some vulnerability to knockback for the same reason - *though,* that's one of the points the wings emerge. They're knocked back, they instinctively brace themselves in the air and gain resistance to it for a time. So, if hit with (say) three KB attacks, the first *wiill* (ignoring IOs) knock you back, but instead of being on the ground you'll be hovering, wings out, the second will have little to no effect, and the third mostly gets a "... really, you're still doing this?" look from the character. 🙂

 

This will pretty much *not* be a character to tank with. But again... speed.

 

Won't take, or will take *very* minimal, damage from falling.

 

Damage increases with speed - while there aren't always maps you can take advantage of this, if you can drop on an enemy, you *do* get a damage bonus. But you don't have to *drop* at all. You start rushing an enemy, or continue kiting them (stay in motion,) you get that same damage bonus. Plus, the wings emerge for their own additional damage on top of it. (Likely Lethal plus something exotic.)

Where is it in combat?

 

(Fast) Melee, range (which should be obvious) and control. Melee's going to be similar to what some people request as "speedster" combat. You want to keep moving for that damage bonus (and probably +def too.)

 

Range... might be interesting to have "Movement = faster attacks, though lower damage, stationary = higher damage but longer recharge" to give some tactical/gameplay options.

 

Starting alignment:

 

None set. Not side restricted - but the starting side determines the start of your story chain and contacts. Are you of the mindset of "See if we can reach out to the humans - and others, wow - and work alongside each other, sharing our knowledge?" Or do you want vengeance for the long-dead and you'll start with the first human you see?

 

(Note this sets a hidden flag on the character. There are three change-of-heart crossover missions that can set their own as well, and will affect how contacts on the *other* side treat you, for good or bad. Mostly affects dialog.)

 

Visuals:

 

Really the main thing is the required wings (or emergence points for natural/magic/tech wings, for those that don't want wings on their back ALL the time - lorewise, have their culture have advanced enough that there's a lot of crossover between what's "natural," magical or technological.)

 

I do somewhat envision some of the attacks having wing-related options for visuals - ranged shooting quills (magic or otherwise,) for instance, melee "wing hits" leaving feathers at the combat site, talons emerging (even if not as a permanent costume piece - again, either showing up or sprouting magically/tech-ly) for up close slashing or other attacks.

 

Powersets:

 

Honestly haven't developed them. They'd have to be extended sets, much like Kheldians, with more choices to handle everything unique to them. (Unlike Khelds, these extended sets wouldn't leave anyone slot-starved more than any OTHER AT - they're not getting forms with their *own* set of powers, after all, and some of the powers would likely be one-slot wonders that wouldn't really need anything added.) Main thing is working with flight and *motion* as their theme and the source of buffs or power state changes.

 

Other thoughts:

 

This is an EAT. It's story based. Honestly, I'd kind of love it to have you rewarded for *going through the story,* rather than being PL'd 1-50 (which for me kind of misses the point of Epics.) Yes, you get reward merits, you have your own contact and story chain with their own rewards, but something like having your *own* ATOs drop if you're an Avilan finishing an Avilan arc, for starters, as a bonus for at least playing through the stories.  Other ATs wouldn't have them drop if they were playing along or Ouro-ing them. And yes, I'd extend this to the other EATs as well. You'd end up with 10-11 of them - the crossover arcs don't drop one. Maybe an Avilan themed TF - similar to Moonfire vis-a-vis Khelds - would drop them as well, and of course... market, merits and conversions.

 

There aren't many chances to fly while fighting and have that be the location and *point* of the fight. Yes, people hoverblast and such, but there are almost no midair fights. There *should* be - at least for these. Maybe some of what would need to be developed for these could go into underwater fights... and, well, another never-finished EAT, but that'd be another post.

 

(Further edits)

 

Lorewise... I kind of want Thoth (the ancient Egyptian god) to have either been or been inspired by an Avilan ambassador to deeply ancient Egypt. Obviously didn't have a bird head - that was put in as a representative of the fact he could fly.  And could also tie in to, say, Blood of the Black Stream being part of why they had to eventually go into hiding. Yes, I *do* want some ancient/modern Egyptian stuff going on in game, regardless!

 

Mapwise - some of the EAT-specific missions take place in EAT-specific *maps.* As in, designed for characters with flying, and after all they were defending in their last days. So there'll be gaps that "only" a flyer can cross easily. If you play the maps as a non-Avilan, but play with them on the team, what's essentially an invisible Group Fly generator lets you cross with them over the gaps, even if you don't have fly. (Similar to the Seed of Hami's buoyancy mito.) If you're ouroing it on a non-EAT and don't have fly, there'll be a way across - you'll just be hopping across rocks on the side, or (for areas that were attacked in the ancient past) having to find the invaders' tunnels to cross.

Did you just volunteer yourself to the dev team?

[Greycat]

11 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Did you just volunteer yourself to the dev team?

 

Quote

 

Now... yes, this is almost more of a thought experiment than a suggestion. EATs were a handful and a half for the *live* devs - not least because they also involved writing 1-50 story arcs (EATs being tied to bits of lore, after all - I always looked at them as being "deep dives," the points where COH went deep instead of wide in its story.) It'd be even more of a handful for our much smaller, volunteer team.

 

But still - I thought it might be interesting to come up with a take on them.

 

 

Reading the post explains the post.

[TheMoneyMaker]

So yes you volunteered?  Great.  Hope you get started on this soon.

 

Me read?  Only the good parts.

[Rudra]

43 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Did you just volunteer yourself to the dev team?

Do you always ask if someone making a suggestion is going to be a dev? If making a suggestion, especially if said suggestion is prefaced as a thought experiment instead of a full request, should result in the requester becoming a dev, then all of us better be signing up to be devs. Your question is odd to say the least.

 

21 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

So yes you volunteered?  Great.  Hope you get started on this soon.

This is an even weirder response than your initial dev question.

 

21 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Me read?  Only the good parts.

If you can't be bothered with reading the posts you are going to comment on, then how can you expect to have any reasonable idea what is actually going on in the thread?

 

Edited March 29 by Rudra
Edited to add missing " should result in the requester becoming a dev,".

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

So yes you volunteered?  Great.  Hope you get started on this soon.

 

Me read?  Only the good parts.

As your lack of understanding and your posts so far indicate... you have none of those, so on the ignore list you go.  Ta ta.

[TheMoneyMaker]

It was more a show of enthusiasm for the idea, but you take however you like chief.

[Rudra]

7 hours ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

It was more a show of enthusiasm for the idea, but you take however you like chief.

It reads more as opposition. "You want this? Then become a dev and make it." is the overall feel of your responses in this thread.

[Jiro Ito]

19 hours ago, Greycat said:

They developed technology and magic of their own - and a blend of the two.

 

This is my favorite part.  We have lots of deep dives into magic and lots of deep dives into technology, and those who dabble in a little bit of both, but I'd love to have something that goes deep on blending both together as their whole gig.  Technomages?  Is that the thing?  Maybe.  Bird people would be cool, something new that we haven't seen, and all kinds of cool opportunities for vertical combat that we don't see at all right now, and I like the "drop" mechanic.  That would be scary as hell, just rollin along and all of a sudden bird claws crunch you to the ground and something pecks your eyeballs out.  Making the battlefield three dimensional, with ambushes falling from the sky?  I'm ready for that Bird Strike badge.

 

The speed mechanic doesn't excite me as much as a player.  Sounds like jousting a bit, is that right?  Squishy melee?  Maybe this is a good spot to put that "Guardian" or "Paladin" melee/buff and debuff archetype?  It's not for me, but there have been plenty of requests in the forums for that.

 

BUT:  As a mechanic for enemies, that sounds awesome.  You're fighting Avilans, these scary cawing bird guys with beaks and talons and the faster they race around you, the more damage they do?  That sounds wild.  Then the strategy is not do-the-most-damage, but, interrupt their speedballing.  Time to get those Immobilize powers slotted!

 

Can we get travel suppression (in pve) removed from the game yet?

[Rudra]

7 minutes ago, Jiro Ito said:

Technomages?  Is that the thing? 

Technomancy. Techno being shorthand prefix for technology and mancy meaning magic. So technological magic. Though yes, while practitioners of technomancy would be technomancers, they are also called technomages.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Technomancy. Techno being shorthand prefix for technology and mancy meaning magic. So technological magic. Though yes, while practitioners of technomancy would be technomancers, they are also called technomages.

 

I prefer Magitech over Technomancy but to each their own

[Rudra]

14 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

 

I prefer Magitech over Technomancy but to each their own

To the best of my knowledge, magitech was a Final Fantasy thing. Technomancy predates magitech and I've seen it in use much more often than magitech, which again I have only seen in the Final Fantasy series of games. In the end, it doesn't really matter because both reference the same thing. For all I know, there are other names/labels for the fusion of technology and magic beyond even just those.

[Jiro Ito]