First MM

[Snakebit]

I'm seriously thinking about Demon/Dark, possibly Time. This will be primarily for solo play on blue. Not so much interested in soloing AV's, but it could be a thing if I don't have to spend 50 million to make it happen (unless I just love the toon)

 

How well do the Medicine and Leadership pools work on Pets? Vengence/Victory Rush seem appealing on paper.

 

Looking through Pines, there's a few different ways to slot the pets. Is six slotting them standard?

 

Is Hasten something that needs to be in the build somewhere? It looks pretty skippable.

 

Is Time "better" than Dark? I've never used this particular set and can't really picture how it will play out.

 

Any play tips would be great, not really looking for a build atm.

 

You out there Pax?

[TheShooter36]

Generally, you want to slot pets with six slots before everything else, skip most personal attacks, take as much as secondary/pool powers you can. And you wont need medicine pool on either time or dark. Demons are resist based so you may want to push them to cap. For dark, Hasten may be skippable, but with time, you want to perma it AND chronoshift on top of it. Also, for going time, bots/thugs are more of a popular choice. If you choose to go bots, repair is skippable. Regardless of you go dark or time, you will have plenty of buffs and debuffs flying around. Traps is a really good choice if you desire a more active playstyle.

 

Edit: Time and Dark both are regarded as top tier sets. Dark offers more situational utility in my eyes, while Time is more of a jack of all trades, offers a little bit of everything.

 

Playstyle: Get binds, get used to bodyguard mode, dont put your pets into AoEs, liberally use goto commands on them, prioritize enemies and then buff pets to oblivion while watching their carnage unfolds. Or be like some of us and grab provoke, dive straight into the fray.

[Clave Dark 5]

It may be unpopular of me to say so, but you don't need to get binds to play.  I ran a few to 50 before shut-down without them, and I'm doing OK on one now sans binds.  Checking into them and thinking about running them and planning to memorize where they are and blah blah blah, it just felt like too much homework.  Especially since you don't want to solo AVs or anything nuts, you should be OK without them.

 

Now here comes everyone to tell me I'm gimping my MMs.  :)

[Dixa]

if you are going dark or time medicine is a waste of power choices. both sets have a very strong heal.

 

the extra pet in dark is extremely helpful

 

vengeance can't be used on a dead pet. victory rush is only worthwhile on Eb's and AV's and is replaced by incarnates entirely. it also has an unenhanceable stupidly long recharge time.

 

the -tohit in dark (and the pbaoe in time) are affected by mob level difference. google city of heroes purple patch for more details.

 

you only need three binds two of which you start with - follow defensive, attack defensive, goto defensive. right click and edit the two attack and follow macros you start out with from aggressive to defensive.

 

 

if you are really on the fence as to which secondary, make both on justin boost to 50 and try them both. i am finding justin to be a godsend because quite often builds on paper don't work out in practice.

[Snakebit]

 

 

 

if you are really on the fence as to which secondary, make both on justin boost to 50 and try them both. i am finding justin to be a godsend because quite often builds on paper don't work out in practice.

 

That's a good idea, link to a guide?

Generally, you want to slot pets with six slots before everything else, skip most personal attacks, take as much as secondary/pool powers you can. And you wont need medicine pool on either time or dark.

 

Replace with Leadership, or ?

[Dixa]

if you are using tequila the test server is already installed. it's the 2nd option in the launcher. you can find details on the commands to create sets and boost your character on the beta forum here.

[Dakkaface]

I'm seriously thinking about Demon/Dark, possibly Time. This will be primarily for solo play on blue. Not so much interested in soloing AV's, but it could be a thing if I don't have to spend 50 million to make it happen (unless I just love the toon)

 

How well do the Medicine and Leadership pools work on Pets? Vengence/Victory Rush seem appealing on paper.

 

Looking through Pines, there's a few different ways to slot the pets. Is six slotting them standard?

 

Is Hasten something that needs to be in the build somewhere? It looks pretty skippable.

 

Is Time "better" than Dark? I've never used this particular set and can't really picture how it will play out.

 

Any play tips would be great, not really looking for a build atm.

 

You out there Pax?

6-slot every pet.  Your Pets are your damage.

 

Time and Dark are both great sets.

 

You don't need Hasten. You'll spend most of your time managing your pets, not tossing out powers.

 

Medicine is only good if your sets don't have a good heal. You're planning on Time or Dark, so that's not an issue.  I run Medicine on my Bots/FF MM, but I wouldn't bother on my Beasts/Nature as he has superior heals in his secondary.

 

Leadership is good. Your low level pets are eventually down two levels from you and your midrange pets are down one, so the To-Hit boost from Tactics is useful.  Vengeance doesn't function on Minions though, so don't bother with it.  I take Assault and Tactics on pretty much all my MM's. 

 

It may be unpopular of me to say so, but you don't need to get binds to play.  I ran a few to 50 before shut-down without them, and I'm doing OK on one now sans binds.  Checking into them and thinking about running them and planning to memorize where they are and blah blah blah, it just felt like too much homework.  Especially since you don't want to solo AVs or anything nuts, you should be OK without them.

 

Now here comes everyone to tell me I'm gimping my MMs.  :)

You don't need fancy binds - but the quality of life change is pretty strong. I could play without the Hover/Fly swap bind, or the mouse button Teleport bind, or the simple trio of Mastermind orders I use. But it'd be a lot clunkier, and since they make things a lot easier, why not use them?

[PaxArcana]

Checking into [binds] and thinking about running them and planning to memorize where they are and blah blah blah, [...]

 

Is overcomplicating things by a huge amount.

 

You know what binds I use most often on my MMs?

 

SHIFT+RBUTTON "petcom_all Goto"

SHIFT+Q "petcom_all Defensive Follow"

CTROL+Q "petcom_all dismiss"

 

... and the actual button macros the game provides me.  The most useful of those is the Shift-and-right-click.  I have to left-click to confirm placement, but, it's a LOT faster than moving my mouse to the GOTO macro, clicking it, then moving the target circle to the desired location and clicking again.

 

EDIT TO ADD: a shift-and-left click scheme would be even quicker ... but I tend to reserve that for Teleport.  I can pop clear across a zone, going up to the 10th or 15th story for height, without taking Hover, using that keybind. :)

 

Control+Q gets a lot of use too, 'cause I don't want to drag my pets through half the zone on my way to the next mission.

 

And the Shift+Q, is just a quick "panic-shift-to-Bodyguard-NOW" control.

 

...

 

Mind, I have set up far more, and occasionally use it.  But I find that just a few, key binds (pun not intended) makes for a much easier, smoother experience managing those pets.

[biostem]

Checking into [binds] and thinking about running them and planning to memorize where they are and blah blah blah, [...]

 

Is overcomplicating things by a huge amount.

 

You know what binds I use most often on my MMs?

 

SHIFT+RBUTTON "petcom_all Goto"

SHIFT+Q "petcom_all Defensive Follow"

CTROL+Q "petcom_all dismiss"

 

... and the actual button macros the game provides me.  The most useful of those is the Shift-and-right-click.  I have to left-click to confirm placement, but, it's a LOT faster than moving my mouse to the GOTO macro, clicking it, then moving the target circle to the desired location and clicking again.

 

Control+Q gets a lot of use too, 'cause I don't want to drag my pets through half the zone on my way to the next mission.

 

And the Shift+Q, is just a quick "panic-shift-to-Bodyguard-NOW" control.

 

...

 

Mind, I have set up far more, and occasionally use it.  But I find that just a few, key binds (pun not intended) makes for a much easier, smoother experience managing those pets.

 

I use:

 

/bind numpad7 "petcomall attack aggressive" - makes pets attack my target then switch to any other nearby enemies

/bind numpad5 "petcomall follow defensive" - engages bodyguard mode and makes the pets follow me, only attacking if they are attacked first

/bind lalt+lbutton "petcomall goto passive" - moves pets to the designated location when I alt-click, and they ignore everything along the way

[Black Zot]

 

It may be unpopular of me to say so, but you don't need to get binds to play.  I ran a few to 50 before shut-down without them, and I'm doing OK on one now sans binds.  Checking into them and thinking about running them and planning to memorize where they are and blah blah blah, it just felt like too much homework.  Especially since you don't want to solo AVs or anything nuts, you should be OK without them.

 

Now here comes everyone to tell me I'm gimping my MMs.  :)

You don't need fancy binds - but the quality of life change is pretty strong. I could play without the Hover/Fly swap bind, or the mouse button Teleport bind, or the simple trio of Mastermind orders I use. But it'd be a lot clunkier, and since they make things a lot easier, why not use them?

 

They make things easier FOR YOU.  But for someone like me with manual dexterity issues, managing WASD is already a full-time job for my left hand.  Asking me to try and hunt down a bunch of esoteric keyboard commands during the time crunch of combat (when everything I need to do is better handled by my dominant hand on the mouse interfacing with command buttons I can actually see on-screen) is a bit like asking me to walk the long way round to get to work when I have a car and a short, direct route. 

 

A lot of wasted time and effort for an ultimately inferior result when I already have a working system in place?  No thank you.

[PaxArcana]

[...] a bunch of esoteric keyboard commands [...]

 

"Shift-click" is hardly esoteric, Black Zot.  And certainly no more difficult than pressing 1, 2, 3 for buffs, attacks, or whatever else you mgiht be doing during combat.  And having a quick GOTO command is what makes an MM less annoying to team-mates on maps with close quarters ... and narrow doorways.

 

When My hand is in WASD position, my little finger is directly over the Shift key ... making shift-click easy.  The finger on the A button can easily shift up to the Q button, so shift-q is also not especially hard to learn.

 

Alternately, get yourself a bloody MMO mouse.  Bind these commands to the extra buttons on the mouse.  Problem quite likely solved.

[Black Zot]

 

[reiterating a bunch of stuff I just refuted]

 

Seriously?  Did I not just get done explaining that adding a bunch of extra keyboard buttons to my interface is physically impossible for me?  If you're not going to read my post, why respond to it?

[Dixa]

 

It may be unpopular of me to say so, but you don't need to get binds to play.  I ran a few to 50 before shut-down without them, and I'm doing OK on one now sans binds.  Checking into them and thinking about running them and planning to memorize where they are and blah blah blah, it just felt like too much homework.  Especially since you don't want to solo AVs or anything nuts, you should be OK without them.

 

Now here comes everyone to tell me I'm gimping my MMs.  :)

 

 

 

They make things easier FOR YOU.  But for someone like me with manual dexterity issues, managing WASD is already a full-time job for my left hand.  Asking me to try and hunt down a bunch of esoteric keyboard commands during the time crunch of combat (when everything I need to do is better handled by my dominant hand on the mouse interfacing with command buttons I can actually see on-screen) is a bit like asking me to walk the long way round to get to work when I have a car and a short, direct route. 

 

A lot of wasted time and effort for an ultimately inferior result when I already have a working system in place?  No thank you.

 

 

EDITED: for some reason my reply ended up in the middle there.

 

i'm like you. i cant fathom how people can easily reach up and hit the function keys without looking at the keyboard.

 

oh so long ago when i was training myself in the late 90's to move away from using the arrow keys to turn and clicking everything i still could not do much with my left hand other than wasd, and maybe q, e, shift, alt and ctrl.

 

I recommend you look into a 7 button mouse. I use logitech mice and have for a very long time. three buttons on my thumb, two small buttons to the lower left of mouse button one and the mouse wheel clicks left and right for two more. there's an easy 7 hotkeys. if you are able to manage shift, ctrl and alt you can use those as modifiers with the 7 hotkeys, giving you 28 total.

 

 

 

[Dakkaface]

They make things easier FOR YOU.  But for someone like me with manual dexterity issues, managing WASD is already a full-time job for my left hand.  Asking me to try and hunt down a bunch of esoteric keyboard commands during the time crunch of combat (when everything I need to do is better handled by my dominant hand on the mouse interfacing with command buttons I can actually see on-screen) is a bit like asking me to walk the long way round to get to work when I have a car and a short, direct route. 

 

A lot of wasted time and effort for an ultimately inferior result when I already have a working system in place?  No thank you.

 

You don't need to use the numpad binds, man. Or anyone else's binds.  I can't used the numpad binds myself, and I hate that they would require me to take my hands of the mouse or WASD to use them. But binds exist to make things easier on you, and you can set 'em where it's convenient for you.  Do you hit numbers 1-3 for activating powers, or is your left hand bad enough that you manually click all your powers? If you can move your fingers up to 1-3 to activate powers that way, you can probably use a trio of simple binds like me - my MM binds are on ZXC, which let me order my pets without moving my hands from the WASD position, and you don't have to hunt for them.  Q and E are also buttons you can use that are right there while you're fingering WASD.

 

Alternately, if your hand is bad enough that you do mouse click all your powers, consider setting up binds on your mouse.  My Teleport bind is set to Mouse4.  If you have no problem with your dominant hand and own mouse with a bunch of buttons on it, why not set some of the binds to the mouse buttons? Many standard mice have 5 buttons and you could set Mouse3 to Attack+Aggressive, Mouse4 to Follow+Defensive and Mouse5 to Goto+Passive or Follow+Passive.  There are also gaming mice with 6-12 extra buttons that could be used for binds. 

 

The point is not that you have to use binds.  But binds are extremely useful, and it is a major QoL jump if you implement binds that work for you.  If no binds work for you, then yeah, you can't benefit, but do realize your situation is pretty rare and telling other players they don't have to use them isn't particularly helpful advice. 

[PaxArcana]

Seriously?  Did I not just get done explaining that adding a bunch of extra keyboard buttons to my interface is physically impossible for me?  If you're not going to read my post, why respond to it?

Dude, if "press shift while you click with your mouse", or "press shift and Q at the same time" is esoteric (your word), then so is WASD.

 

Oh, and also: in your post just now, you used capital S (shift+s), capital D (shift+d), and capital I (shift+i), in just the first three words.  Obviously those aren't physically impossible for you to use, so I'm going to call bullshit on your whole claim.

 

Not to mention, you just completely ignored the whole "get an MMO mouse" thing.  The Tazer Naga Triad is one I'm looking at myself, or example.  One of it's options is just seven extra buttons, in a ring around the thumb-contact-point.

[Black Zot]

Now you're just intentionally insulting me.

 

Yes, I can manage shift+whatever, if I focus my eyes on the keyboard and take my hand off WASD while I'm doing it. 

 

You ignored my entire post, why shouldn't I ignore part of yours?

 

Do you have any idea what it's like to try to hold up your end of an online conversation when you don't have the fine motor control necessary to touch-type?  I had to correct dozens of typos to make this post.  And then some arrogant jerk assumes that on minimum wage I can go out and frivolously throw money at a fancy gaming mouse just so I can have more buttons I can misclick with?  You and your little "my way is inherently better and you're a bad person if you don't use it" attitude can just fuck right off.

[PaxArcana]

You ignored my entire post, why shouldn't I ignore part of yours?

I ignored nothing.  You decried ESOTERIC (your word, not mine) keybinds.  The ones I and others here have described hardly qualify as "esoteric".

 

And then some arrogant jerk assumes that on minimum wage I can go out and frivolously throw money at a fancy gaming mouse [...]

Don't try and cry poor mouth to me.  You won't win that contest.

 

40 hours at Federal Minimum Wage would be $1,256.67/month - even with an effective 10% tax that'd be $1,131/month average.

 

I survive on Social Security Disability payments.  I live on all of $956/month.

 

So like I said, don't try and cry poormouth at me. 

 

Meanwhile on Amazon right now, you can pick up a Logitech G600 mouse, with twelve programmable function keys under your thumb, for just under $34 ... and free shipping (not Prime, just free at all).  Yes, the Razer Naga Trinity (my bad for misnaming it earlier) is a seventy-four dollar mouse.  But there are plenty of cheaper options.  Hell, on Amazon right now, there's several that are under fifteen bucks.

 

just so I can have more buttons I can misclick with?

 

For more money, that Razer Naga Trinity has an option with a ring of just 7 buttons.  It'd be awfully hard to misclick those.

 

You and your little "my way is inherently better and you're a bad person if you don't use it" attitude can just fuck right off.

 

ABSOLUTELY NO-ONE HAS FUCKING SAID ANYTHING CLOSE TO THAT.

 

Good god damn, man.  You've been trying to make binds out to be impossible to learn, calling them "esoteric", without bothering - until just now - to mention that you personally have such severe motor-control issues that typing a post on a forum is intensely difficult.

 

And that, the idea that keybinds are "esoteric" (I'm convinced you have NFC what that word even means), that they're hard to learn at all, is all I've been arguing against.

 

...

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/esoteric

 

Definition of esoteric

1a : designed for or understood by the specially initiated alone

 

b : requiring or exhibiting knowledge that is restricted to a small group

esoteric terminology

 

broadly : difficult to understand

esoteric subjects

 

2a : limited to a small circle

engaging in esoteric pursuits

 

b : PRIVATE, CONFIDENTIAL

an esoteric purpose

 

3 : of special, rare, or unusual interest

esoteric building materials

[Black Zot]

 

40 hours at Federal Minimum Wage

 

There you go with the arrogant assumptions again.  In what part of the world is it possible to get a 40-hour job with a significant disability?  Not mine, I was lucky to get thirty.  So you can recheck your math and then slap yourself upside the head for being that stupid.

 

without bothering - until just now - to mention that you personally have such severe motor-control issues that typing a post on a forum is intensely difficult.

 

 

My motor-control issues were pointed out in my first post, you just didn't bother reading it.  You were more interested in skimming for words you could nitpick.

 

And this is that part where you recognize that other people have a better grasp of their personal limitations than you ever will, and when someone says something is beyond their capabilities, you DO NOT contradict them.  EVER.

 

ABSOLUTELY NO-ONE HAS FUCKING SAID ANYTHING CLOSE TO THAT.

 

Bullshit.  Every single mastermind-related thread you get involved with has included some variant on your "keybinds are the only right way to play" spiel.  Including this one.

[PaxArcana]

[...] arrogant [...]

 

The only one being arrogant here is you.

 

And I'm done with you.  Begone.

[Widower]

Do not ever post like this, please and thank you.

[Dakkaface]

PaxArcana, you're being needlessly confrontational. BZ says he has issues with manual dexterity and he lives on a limited budget. Take him at his word instead of trying to find fault in his phrasing. I have friends who have issues of their own with games, ex. being unable to play games with QTE's because of dexterity issues, or play any games with a highly mobile camera because it induces dizzyness and vertigo.  Take a step back, a chill pill, whatever you need, but back up and think about how you could help BZ instead of accuse him of lying. While you have offered useful suggestions, you're framing your posts as attacks, which pretty much guarantees your advice will be discarded. This isn't a debate forum.

 

Black Zot, you're probably fed up to your eyeballs with people telling you to use binds, especially since you're able to play without them.  I'm glad you found a way to play that works for you.  But a fair number of non-Pax posters have been asking questions and making suggestions to make binds work for you without attacking, and you've only been responding to Pax. Even Pax himself isn't taking the stance in this thread that 'you need to use binds to play right.' He thinks your justifications for not using binds are bullshit, but he's not saying that you need to use them.  I get that you're frustrated, but you need to take a step back and see what's actually being said too.

 

Either way, this is getting a bit off topic from OP's question, so to re-rail and address the original 'don't need binds' post again:

 

Clave Dark 5, on the topic of binds, while the numpad binds are the most well known, I think learning to juggle the nine-key is a bit much, and like you, I'd have to keep looking up what each bind did. But most MM's will function fine with three binds. Something to set Attack+Aggressive, something to set Defensive+Follow, and something to set either GoTo+Passive or Follow+Passive. Set them yourself on whatever keys are most useful or easy to remember for you, and you can pretty much familiarize yourself with them with 5-10 minutes of play.

 

I use Z, X and C, and it's easy enough to issue orders without lifting my hand out of the WASD position. Q, E, and F are also possibilities for easy to reach keys - though I use F on my Robo/FF toon for my Fly/Hover toggle switch. Mouse4 is for Teleport on my Beasts/Nature toon. 

 

z "petcom_all Aggressive$$petcom_all Attack"

x "petcom_all Defensive$$petcom_all Follow"

c "petcom_all Passive$$petcom_all GoTo"

 

 

[PaxArcana]

[Pax] thinks [black Zot's] justifications for not using binds are bullshit, [...]

Just to take a moment to clarify: until his most recent post, all he had said was "manual dexterity issues".  There's a wide, wide range of possibilities in there.  It wasn't until that last post that he specified just how catastrophic his limitations are.

 

Catastrophic issues, I grok.  I've got my own, in different areas of life.

 

It was the blanket rejection of even the idea of using binds that stuck in my craw.

 

And then, well, that's one of my issues: I have a really hard time letting go of an argument.  One might say, a catastrophically hard time.  Especially when the other participant(s) is/are being just as obstinate as I am, to be fair all 'round.

 

(I am still irked by the persistent misuse of "esoteric", though.)

[PaxArcana]

And, completely aside: I have a proposal for Black Zot.

 

I'll delete my replies to you in this thread, if you'll commit to doing the same.  All of my replies directly to you.  (I'll even leave that first use of "esoteric" unchallenged.)

 

What say?  Bury the hatchet, other than in each others's skulls?

[Clave Dark 5]

Clave Dark 5, on the topic of binds, while the numpad binds are the most well known, I think learning to juggle the nine-key is a bit much, and like you, I'd have to keep looking up what each bind did. But most MM's will function fine with three binds. Something to set Attack+Aggressive, something to set Defensive+Follow, and something to set either GoTo+Passive or Follow+Passive. Set them yourself on whatever keys are most useful or easy to remember for you, and you can pretty much familiarize yourself with them with 5-10 minutes of play.

 

I use Z, X and C, and it's easy enough to issue orders without lifting my hand out of the WASD position. Q, E, and F are also possibilities for easy to reach keys - though I use F on my Robo/FF toon for my Fly/Hover toggle switch. Mouse4 is for Teleport on my Beasts/Nature toon. 

 

 

z "petcom_all Aggressive$$petcom_all Attack"

x "petcom_all Defensive$$petcom_all Follow"

c "petcom_all Passive$$petcom_all GoTo"

My style of play, which is subjective, yes, is button clicking rather than keyboarding, and I've never had a gaming mouse because this is the only game I play.  I've taken at least two MMs to 50 that way and it seems to work well enough for me.  Thanks for the advice though, it is actually appreciated.

 

[justicebeliever]

And then, well, that's one of my issues: I have a really hard time letting go of an argument.  One might say, a catastrophically hard time.  Especially when the other participant(s) is/are being just as obstinate as I am, to be fair all 'round.

 

I'm the same Pax...but sadly I've found, that most other participants who go round 1 with me in an Internet forum, will likely go the whole 10...So I often look back and say to myself, "Why didn't I just let it go 1 post sooner".