MM Pet Recall

[Lyone_Manes]

So...I suspect you guys are going nuts with lots of MM Stuff. But was talking in General and had this thought:

 

Could MMs get a default "Recall Pets" command which instantly teleports them to you and resets their AI and such? Could make it like the "Goto" command, but with "Teleportation" that auto-targets yourself as the target point? It won't fix some of the AI issues, but it would improve things a lot I think using existing mechanics...

[Rudra]

Teleport Target and temp powers like Assemble the Team are your friend.

[Lyone_Manes]

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Teleport Target and temp powers like Assemble the Team are your friend.

That's great...but it seems silly to need to get other powers to help control the core aspect of the Class you're playing? I still think it's stupid an MM needs to get "Group Teleport" or "Group Fly" to have their Minions Fly/Teleport with them. Again...it's extra expenses on powers that no one else needs to do to use their core abilities effectively. This is a simple solution that doesn't hurt to simply add as an optional command.

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, Lyone_Manes said:

That's great...but it seems silly to need to get other powers to help control the core aspect of the Class you're playing? I still think it's stupid an MM needs to get "Group Teleport" or "Group Fly" to have their Minions Fly/Teleport with them. Again...it's extra expenses on powers that no one else needs to do to use their core abilities effectively. This is a simple solution that doesn't hurt to simply add as an optional command.

It was addressed previously. Now MM pets automatically teleport to their MM when they get too far away. The problem with that is that it seems to be random for when it works. And the purpose of Group Fly and Team Teleport being in the game in the first place was so that players could get their teams from point A to point B in the event team members lacked travel powers. And MMs are their own team. They benefit the most from making use of team powers like the Leadership pool and Group Fly and Team Teleport. And though it costs 1,000,000 inf' from START, you can get Assemble the Team from Start and have the ability to immediately recall all pets to you without giving up a power choice on your character.

[PoptartsNinja]

Pets just need to inherit their owner's running speed, since their built-in tools are so unreliable. They might start and stop a lot and you'd still outpace them, but at least you wouldn't outpace them so badly.

 

It'd be nice if pets inherited their user's flying speed too, but that would take away group fly's only practical use case.

 

 

Edit: But I also feel like hostages should have either "normal running speed + 1 SO-slotted swift%" or "normal running speed + 1 SO-slotted swift% + sprint" rather than the weird midway they're currently at, where they're too fast for normal running speed (causing them to catch up, stop, and then have to take a moment to re-path before they start moving again) but aren't fast enough to keep up with you while you're sprinting, causing them to get stuck on corners (or, more likely, on chairs or warehouse boxes).

Edited April 18 by PoptartsNinja

[Rudra]

8 minutes ago, PoptartsNinja said:

Edit: But I also feel like hostages should have either "normal running speed + 1 SO-slotted swift%" or "normal running speed + 1 SO-slotted swift% + sprint" rather than the weird midway they're currently at, where they're too fast for normal running speed (causing them to catch up, stop, and then have to take a moment to re-path before they start moving again) but aren't fast enough to keep up with you while you're sprinting, causing them to get stuck on corners (or, more likely, on chairs or warehouse boxes).

What I would like? Is for hostages to be able to use things like stairs and ramps without the player having to stand at the top or bottom of said stairs or ramp watching the NPC not be able to figure out how to use it. Especially since you can't teleport those NPCs to you.

[Greycat]

21 minutes ago, Rudra said:

It was addressed previously. Now MM pets automatically teleport to their MM when they get too far away. The problem with that is that it seems to be random for when it works.

 

*nod* We've got a bunch of things from live like this, like the "show last mobs on map" which ... doesn't always, or shows crystals and holding cell/cave doors.

 

Personally... I wouldn't be all that *against* the suggestion, as it'd (a) be limited in scope to the MM pets and (b) be a workaround for the "... ok, will they teleport to me or slowly run across the map/zone" issue we have now.

[Rudra]

20 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

*nod* We've got a bunch of things from live like this, like the "show last mobs on map" which ... doesn't always, or shows crystals and holding cell/cave doors.

 

Personally... I wouldn't be all that *against* the suggestion, as it'd (a) be limited in scope to the MM pets and (b) be a workaround for the "... ok, will they teleport to me or slowly run across the map/zone" issue we have now.

Then maybe the devs can see about fixing that instead. Make it so that when the pets are a set distance away from the MM, they automatically teleport to the MM so we can stop wondering if they will teleport to our character or slowly run across the map/zone.

 

Edited April 18 by Rudra
Edited to remove redundant "instead".

[Greycat]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Then instead maybe instead the devs can instead see instead about instead fixing that instead.

 

 

*Sees Rudra's edit note. Edits to add multiple redundant insteads, because I feel like being a smartass.* @Rudra

[megaericzero]

I was going to suggest having the henchmen's own summon powers teleport them if they are still alive when used. Since the Mastermind can already just dismiss and re-summon them, this would give the option to act like they did but keep their upgrades and any lingering buffs with the trade-off of putting the powers on cooldown. Then I looked at COD and double-checked in game...

 

When did the henchmen powers get buffed to 5-15s recharges with 5-13 endurance cost? Forget what I was going to say; just desummon and resummon them.

 

[tidge]

I play Masterminds. I'm not in favor of the suggestion.

 

I can see why players would want this, but it isn't necessary... even though we already have this if the map is large enough.

 

Why do I feel this way?

 

0) My disapproval of the suggestion is not theoretical. I've played enough content with MMs that this is unnecessary and doesn't feel far from asking for "easy mode for me" request.

 

1) Re-summoning the henchmen is PDQ. This was a HUGE MM quality-of-life improvement that I am not 100% certain everyone appreciates.An MM can always dismiss them and resummon them if you literally cannot wait for them to travel to you. I'll do exactly this if any of the henchmen AI decides they don't want to join the rest of us.

 

2) As buggy as the henchmen (not pets, because now Controllers and Crabs want it too) AI can be about pathing, and just stopping... having the henchmen travel between where they are and where the MM is can be used as a strategic option.

 

3) We already have open world multi-box MMs, we don't need to encourage those players any more. Right now those players have to choose which of their level 50 MMs will use Incandescence and which ones will use other buffs. Sometimes seeing the henchmen run across the zone is the only indication that the multi-boxer is about to wipe a Giant Monster in the next 60 seconds.

 

4) Waiting for henchmen is literally one of the last things I'd worry about for Masterminds. There have certainly been times when my MM did not wait and ended up getting one-shot by something... but such an outcome is on me not playing the AT smartly in the moment.

[wjrasmussen]

10 hours ago, wjrasmussen said:

I want an ability on a 2 second cooldown that awards me 2 billion influence.  We all have ideas, that doesn't make them good, even if everyone would like it.

teleporting mobs isn't a core aspect of your class. Saying so is BS.  Don't blame me, you are trying to make it that way.  STOP IT.

Sorry, I deserved the thumbs down.

[jkwak]

11 hours ago, Rudra said:

Teleport Target and temp powers like Assemble the Team are your friend.

Dosnt work when the pet AI went completely crazy eating to much code pasta and they are stuck somewhere, even unsummoning them with chat commands won't help there often enough they just disappear from the pet window and you can't summon them new.

I this proposed solution won't help either I expect.

Best is to remember the missions where pets are likely to bug and unsummon them befor the that usually happens and resummon after that point

[Lyone_Manes]

7 hours ago, tidge said:

I play Masterminds. I'm not in favor of the suggestion.

 

I can see why players would want this, but it isn't necessary... even though we already have this if the map is large enough.

 

Why do I feel this way?

 

0) My disapproval of the suggestion is not theoretical. I've played enough content with MMs that this is unnecessary and doesn't feel far from asking for "easy mode for me" request.

 

1) Re-summoning the henchmen is PDQ. This was a HUGE MM quality-of-life improvement that I am not 100% certain everyone appreciates.An MM can always dismiss them and resummon them if you literally cannot wait for them to travel to you. I'll do exactly this if any of the henchmen AI decides they don't want to join the rest of us.

 

2) As buggy as the henchmen (not pets, because now Controllers and Crabs want it too) AI can be about pathing, and just stopping... having the henchmen travel between where they are and where the MM is can be used as a strategic option.

 

3) We already have open world multi-box MMs, we don't need to encourage those players any more. Right now those players have to choose which of their level 50 MMs will use Incandescence and which ones will use other buffs. Sometimes seeing the henchmen run across the zone is the only indication that the multi-boxer is about to wipe a Giant Monster in the next 60 seconds.

 

4) Waiting for henchmen is literally one of the last things I'd worry about for Masterminds. There have certainly been times when my MM did not wait and ended up getting one-shot by something... but such an outcome is on me not playing the AT smartly in the moment.

0) ...Good to know you're the only one whose statements aren't theoretical because you've played MMs. While I'm sure there may be 1 or 2 others out there, I have done so as well. This seems to either imply your opinion matters more or mine doesn't at all? Seems completely un-necessary.

 

1) Re-summoning is a good thing, but it's not perfect. You also occasionally get the glitch where you Dismiss a Summon and then can't summon a new one because it's still on the map stuck somewhere. By pulling them instantly to you -ON  COMMAND- instead of automatically, you can fix that issue. It should also not be a "Targetable" command, but rather be limited to targeting yourself. That way you can't send the pets wherever you want...just pull them to you.

 

2) It can, but that doesn't remove  the usefulness of this option in dealing with the various AI issues. It isn't perfect, but it'd at least be better than what we have while using existing mechanics so not requiring a lot of coding changes.

 

3) ...This really has absolutely no bearing on the conversation. You want to stop that kinda thing, you deal with the problem itself and there's only so much you can do about it. This doesn't make that easier, harder, better or change -anything- in how they would do things.

 

4) I'm glad that it's one of the last things you'd worry about, personally, I don't limit myself to thinking about multiple things at once and offering suggestions that I feel would improve the game for me.

[Lyone_Manes]

10 hours ago, Rudra said:

Then maybe the devs can see about fixing that instead. Make it so that when the pets are a set distance away from the MM, they automatically teleport to the MM so we can stop wondering if they will teleport to our character or slowly run across the map/zone.

 

They could just not automate it...make it a Pet-Command. It can already be done...just making it on-demand instead of automated doesn't seem like it's asking for a lot.

[megaericzero]

31 minutes ago, Lyone_Manes said:

You also occasionally get the glitch where you Dismiss a Summon and then can't summon a new one because it's still on the map stuck somewhere.

That's interesting. Is it because pets execute their commands when available rather than immediately, so if they get stuck on something they don't see themselves as available to be dismissed? /release_pets forcibly defeats your pets - henchmen or otherwise

[Rudra]

48 minutes ago, Lyone_Manes said:

0) ...Good to know you're the only one whose statements aren't theoretical because you've played MMs.

That is a baseless assumption. For instance, my main is a Ninja/Dark MM.

 

48 minutes ago, Lyone_Manes said:

Re-summoning is a good thing, but it's not perfect. You also occasionally get the glitch where you Dismiss a Summon and then can't summon a new one because it's still on the map stuck somewhere.

 

13 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

That's interesting. Is it because pets execute their commands when available rather than immediately, so if they get stuck on something they don't see themselves as available to be dismissed? /release_pets forcibly defeats your pets - henchmen or otherwise

I only see this happen when a pet is critically stuck in an object. To the point where even Teleport Target failed to yank it back out. More commonly, you can lose control of your pets if you try dismissing them just before zoning, such as entering or exiting a mission map. Though zoning again typically fixes that. (Edit: For clarification, if you zone too soon after dismissing your pets, when you enter the new zone, you can find your pets are still with you. And sometimes, they aren't subject to your commands any more.)

 

48 minutes ago, Lyone_Manes said:

By pulling them instantly to you -ON  COMMAND- instead of automatically, you can fix that issue.

If Teleport Target, which my main MM has, can't pull a stuck pet out, then I'm willing to bet a recall pet command won't either.

Edited April 19 by Rudra

[Videra]

16 hours ago, wjrasmussen said:

I want an ability on a 2 second cooldown that awards me 2 billion influence.  We all have ideas, that doesn't make them good, even if everyone would like it.

teleporting mobs isn't a core aspect of your class. Saying so is BS.  Don't blame me, you are trying to make it that way.  STOP IT.

 

Horrible take. One of MM's most noticeable issues at this moment in time is that - in relatively fast teams, not even speedrun pace - pets struggle to keep up. This could be easily resolved with a pet recall button. Have you actually played the AT?

[Saiyajinzoningen]

16 hours ago, Rudra said:

What I would like? Is for hostages to be able to use things like stairs and ramps without the player having to stand at the top or bottom of said stairs or ramp watching the NPC not be able to figure out how to use it. Especially since you can't teleport those NPCs to you.

 

You used to be able to teleport hostages iirc.

 

i dont play MM all that much 

perhaps pets sharing your travel power when they are near their controller might help?

or maybe formations of some sort?

[tidge]

8 hours ago, Lyone_Manes said:

0) ...Good to know you're the only one whose statements aren't theoretical because you've played MMs. While I'm sure there may be 1 or 2 others out there, I have done so as well. This seems to either imply your opinion matters more or mine doesn't at all? Seems completely un-necessary.

 

There are folks in this very thread asking if commenters play MMs. So sorry for you that I chose to baseline my reasoning with a comment about my own experience that you find objectionable. I made no implications, unless of course there is a version of me living in your head.

[Greycat]

46 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

There are folks in this very thread asking if commenters play MMs. So sorry for you that I chose to baseline my reasoning with a comment about my own experience that you find objectionable. I made no implications, unless of course there is a version of me living in your head.

 

Bit of a strawman there. The *only* person saying something like that was saying it in response to the "I want a 2 billion INF button" comment.  And that came *after* your initial post.

 

Yes, your comment did sound less like "I play MMs too" and more like "My experience trumps yours." (With the final point in your comment sounding, frankly, like you're sideways-questioning the OP's ability to play the class.)

 

Honestly, none of the points you raised were particularly strong.

 

1. Resummoning, as mentioned, can fail. Yes, it's faster now. Still can fail. Yes, that bit of spaghetti should be fixed, it'd be nice.

 

2. "Travel can be used as a strategic option." Then why aren't you arguing for the insta-teleport - when it works - to be disabled? The OP is asking for an *ability* - which they'd have to select - to teleport the pets. If you want to have your pets travel, you would... hold on, let me check my notes... not use that power at that time.

 

3. is ... niche and irrelevant. "We don't need it easier for multi-box MMs to beat GMs, you can sometimes follow a henchman to know they're fighting a GM!" Well, I tend to actually look for the GM spawn messages, for one, and for another, this is like arguing against bike helmets being mandatory because some people juggle chainsaws on unicycles and a helmet might impede their ability to see. Yes, true, the helmets might be an impediment in that situation, but if you have to go *that* niche for an argument against something... maybe you shouldn't be arguing against it.

 

4. is what sounds like you're basically telling the OP "L2P N00b" without directly saying it.

[tidge]

You guys can infer all you want. I didn't call anyone a newb, but I (who have been playing Homecoming MM since day one, and MM on Live for significantly longer, don't see this "ask" as necessary.

 

I'm sure the bloke who thought the 20 seconds between Lusca submerging and resurfacing actually believed thought that was terribly inconvenient, but I didn't see that as a being a big deal.

 

What are the actual circumstances that this thread's suggestion are a necessary change for every MM? Everybody can get summon teammates (and if they work the safeguard mission, they can use it even more frequently), and every MM player can  leverage the Teleport pool if they truly find this (waves hands, hoping to summon an actual problem in need of the proposed solution) to bother them individually.

[Greycat]

7 minutes ago, tidge said:

You guys can infer all you want. I didn't call anyone a newb, but I (who have been playing Homecoming MM since day one, and MM on Live for significantly longer, don't see this "ask" as necessary.

 

I'm sure the bloke who thought the 20 seconds between Lusca submerging and resurfacing actually believed thought that was terribly inconvenient, but I didn't see that as a being a big deal.

 

What are the actual circumstances that this thread's suggestion are a necessary change for every MM? Everybody can get summon teammates (and if they work the safeguard mission, they can use it even more frequently), and every MM player can  leverage the Teleport pool if they truly find this (waves hands, hoping to summon an actual problem in need of the proposed solution) to bother them individually.

 

1. The OP didn't say it was necessary either. It's called QOL. And yes, your wording where i Pointed it out might as well have been calling him one.

 

2. The lusca bit is completely irrelevant, so why are you bringing it or your attitude towards it up? Has as little to do with this as your like or dislike of Cherry Cordials or if you like red or blue cars better.

 

3. The OP never said it was necessary, again. Given the MMs are the *only* class reliant on having henchmen, they're proposing it as a "nice to have."

[Shin Magmus]

YES PLEASE.  MM's not having an inherent pet recall power at all is a huge hindrance that only affects one AT in the entire game, and it really hurts them a lot.  It doesn't matter if the power has a long CD or other conditions (much), just that they have anything to finally have a button to sometimes press which allows them to function at the same speed as every other AT in the game.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

3. The OP never said it was necessary, again. Given the MMs are the *only* class reliant on having henchmen, they're proposing it as a "nice to have."

 

Those who want it have won the Internet today, as we already have this in the game: Temporary powers, START powers, Teleport Pool powers, and Incarnate powers.