Your favorite Martial Arts Tanker

[Shadowstorm06]

Hi all!

Really torn on what primary to pair on my Martial Arts Tanker. My main goal is for endgame content. These are the ones I'm looking at:

 

Dark Armor: Brings great resists, best heal in the game and some defense of it’s own. MA should let it hit some soft caps for defense. Could see this being incredibly tough. Has a damage aura and Oppressive Gloom’s disorients can stack with some of MA’s moves.

 

Rad Armor: Great resist set all around, with a nice absorb and heal. MA has a few Force Feedback opportunities that can push recharge so the PBAOE’s for Rad can fire off more!

 

Shield Defense: Seems like the optimal “turtle tanker.” Can hit incarnate level defenses. Shield Charge and AAO can help pump up the damage for MA. Decent AOE with Shield Charge + Dragon’s Tail. I read somewhere that @Werner did some crazy things with it.

 

Stone Armor: Seems still very strong outside of Granite. Eagle’s Claw while in Granite form would probably be pretty funny though. Not sure how to build Stone, but it seems to not really have much in the way of "holes."

 

Super Reflexes: Is there ever such a thing as TOO much defense? Lol. I haven't ran SR, but hear it can be crazy good on a Tanker.

Is there one you feel is toughest? One that is most well rounded? What is your favorite pairing with MA?

[Spaghetti Betty]

The coolest thing about MA is that it really will pair with anything! I can talk a little bit about each of your choices.

 

4 hours ago, Shadowstorm06 said:

Dark Armor: Brings great resists, best heal in the game and some defense of it’s own. MA should let it hit some soft caps for defense. Could see this being incredibly tough. Has a damage aura and Oppressive Gloom’s disorients can stack with some of MA’s moves.

 

This would absolutely be a tough combo. In mobs, you'll have Dragons Tail with an FF proc pumping your global recharge, so Dark Regen can be spammed to great effect. The KD spam will also stop mobs from stunwalking. I think my big concern here is that MA can be a bit END hungry if you're really trying to push its limits, and that can be problematic for Dark/. And, if you're gonna go Ageless to mitigate that, why not choose something more punchy?

 

4 hours ago, Shadowstorm06 said:

Rad Armor: Great resist set all around, with a nice absorb and heal. MA has a few Force Feedback opportunities that can push recharge so the PBAOE’s for Rad can fire off more!

 

I run this as a Scrapper and it's fantastic! Rad does an excellent job at shoring up the one flaw MA has: very little AoE. Dragons Tail is great, but having 2 pseudo-nukes to pair with it is even better. The extra DEF from Storm Kick is nice here, but absolutely not necessary. You have unlimited END and great mitigation, so push damage to the moon!

 

4 hours ago, Shadowstorm06 said:

Shield Defense: Seems like the optimal “turtle tanker.” Can hit incarnate level defenses. Shield Charge and AAO can help pump up the damage for MA. Decent AOE with Shield Charge + Dragon’s Tail. I read somewhere that @Werner did some crazy things with it.

 

I feel like the only player in this game that is extremely biased against Shield, but that's not to say Shield/MA isn't cruise control. The extra DEF shores up the one thing I don't really like about Shield, and that's the fact that its base DEF numbers aren't fantastic. This combo can become a damage machine if slotted correctly, and is also the pinnacle of a "turtle tank" gross if slotted that way as well.

 

4 hours ago, Shadowstorm06 said:

Stone Armor: Seems still very strong outside of Granite. Eagle’s Claw while in Granite form would probably be pretty funny though. Not sure how to build Stone, but it seems to not really have much in the way of "holes."

 

"Flipping Granite" is a classic! In modern CoH, you can really push a Granite/MA Tank. Even if you didn't want to go with a Granite build, Stone Armor now offers a ton of goodies that will really push MA's output. They compliment each other very well!

 

4 hours ago, Shadowstorm06 said:

Super Reflexes: Is there ever such a thing as TOO much defense? Lol. I haven't ran SR, but hear it can be crazy good on a Tanker.

 

This would be my choice over Shield, IMO. SR is just too good on Tankers. With Storm Kick, your DEF will be nearly I-capped on just SOs + uniques. This means you can really push your other stats! It's not uncommon for my SR Tanks to be nearly hardcapped on RES* before their HP even gets whittled down a little bit. If you want to cruise, this would be my choice.

 

 

 

*-Slight vulnerability window due to juggling of activations

[Sovera]

No Fire Armor *cry*

 

Fire/MA is one of my best builds. it's the Turtle in my signature boasting of 45% to melee/ranged/AoE and also 90% to most things.

 

 

The thing with MA is that we almost are bound to build off Storm Kicks' 10% defense. But Tankers already get good numbers so reaching (at least) 45% is not a big ordeal.

 

In this all the defense oriented builds don't really need Storm Kick except to reach incarnate levels but that's a small amount of the content and the one where buffers will be commonly found. Still worth to build for if wanting to be self-sufficient I guess.

 

I would suggest looking at Bio who has problems due to the lack of DDR and will appreciated a 10% buffer while also mitigating the slotting needed if wishing to raise S/L defenses.

 

One thing to consider is that the AoE of MA is pretty mediocre. On the other hand the AoE of MA DOES allow to slot a FF proc which speeds everything up. So I circle back to Fire Armor. 45% defense to all with creative use of IOs and Barrier, 90% resists, and 'lo, Burn to help the mediocre AoE and Dragon Tail to speed up Burn.

[Thraxen]

Stone/MA is just so much fun.  Mine is build to play in granite so you can Eagle's Claw and Storm Kick in Granite.  It's fun.  You can for sure get by without granite nowadays.  It's fun.  My build has psy resist within 2% of cap too.  

[Shadowstorm06]

3 hours ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

The coolest thing about MA is that it really will pair with anything! I can talk a little bit about each of your choices.

 

 

This would absolutely be a tough combo. In mobs, you'll have Dragons Tail with an FF proc pumping your global recharge, so Dark Regen can be spammed to great effect. The KD spam will also stop mobs from stunwalking. I think my big concern here is that MA can be a bit END hungry if you're really trying to push its limits, and that can be problematic for Dark/. And, if you're gonna go Ageless to mitigate that, why not choose something more punchy?

 

 

I run this as a Scrapper and it's fantastic! Rad does an excellent job at shoring up the one flaw MA has: very little AoE. Dragons Tail is great, but having 2 pseudo-nukes to pair with it is even better. The extra DEF from Storm Kick is nice here, but absolutely not necessary. You have unlimited END and great mitigation, so push damage to the moon!

 

 

I feel like the only player in this game that is extremely biased against Shield, but that's not to say Shield/MA isn't cruise control. The extra DEF shores up the one thing I don't really like about Shield, and that's the fact that its base DEF numbers aren't fantastic. This combo can become a damage machine if slotted correctly, and is also the pinnacle of a "turtle tank" gross if slotted that way as well.

 

 

"Flipping Granite" is a classic! In modern CoH, you can really push a Granite/MA Tank. Even if you didn't want to go with a Granite build, Stone Armor now offers a ton of goodies that will really push MA's output. They compliment each other very well!

 

 

This would be my choice over Shield, IMO. SR is just too good on Tankers. With Storm Kick, your DEF will be nearly I-capped on just SOs + uniques. This means you can really push your other stats! It's not uncommon for my SR Tanks to be nearly hardcapped on RES* before their HP even gets whittled down a little bit. If you want to cruise, this would be my choice.

 

 

 

*-Slight vulnerability window due to juggling of activations

THANK YOU for writing all of this up. Absolutely amazing.

 

Stone/MA does seems strong across the board. Not sure how I feel about Granite and how it looks 😂 but it could be a good “oh crap” button.

 

Shield/ and Rad/ seem most meta, although I hear a fully built SR/ is something to behold. Is there any one combo that you feel works best for HM stuff?

[Shadowstorm06]

2 hours ago, Thraxen said:

Stone/MA is just so much fun.  Mine is build to play in granite so you can Eagle's Claw and Storm Kick in Granite.  It's fun.  You can for sure get by without granite nowadays.  It's fun.  My build has psy resist within 2% of cap too.  

The combo does seem to have very little weaknesses. With the recent changes, it seems like it can pump up the offense as well.

[Shadowstorm06]

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

No Fire Armor *cry*

 

Fire/MA is one of my best builds. it's the Turtle in my signature boasting of 45% to melee/ranged/AoE and also 90% to most things.

 

 

The thing with MA is that we almost are bound to build off Storm Kicks' 10% defense. But Tankers already get good numbers so reaching (at least) 45% is not a big ordeal.

 

In this all the defense oriented builds don't really need Storm Kick except to reach incarnate levels but that's a small amount of the content and the one where buffers will be commonly found. Still worth to build for if wanting to be self-sufficient I guess.

 

I would suggest looking at Bio who has problems due to the lack of DDR and will appreciated a 10% buffer while also mitigating the slotting needed if wishing to raise S/L defenses.

 

One thing to consider is that the AoE of MA is pretty mediocre. On the other hand the AoE of MA DOES allow to slot a FF proc which speeds everything up. So I circle back to Fire Armor. 45% defense to all with creative use of IOs and Barrier, 90% resists, and 'lo, Burn to help the mediocre AoE and Dragon Tail to speed up Burn.

Good call out Sovera. I guess the only reason I didn’t mention Fire Armor/MA is because I run FA so much on my brute and have a Fire/SS parked right now. I could see Fire/MA being really strong as well.

 

I know Stone Armor has been a recent exploration for you. How did you feel Stone/MA compared to Fire/MA?

Edited May 9 by Shadowstorm06
Spelling

[Spaghetti Betty]

1 hour ago, Shadowstorm06 said:

Shield/ and Rad/ seem most meta, although I hear a fully built SR/ is something to behold. Is there any one combo that you feel works best for HM stuff?

The go-to for meta will always be Rad or Bio!

 

But anything can work in HM!

[Shadowstorm06]

36 minutes ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

The go-to for meta will always be Rad or Bio!

 

But anything can work in HM!

This is a different way of asking: how about in a vacuum?

 

What I mean is, I know Rad and Bio are the go tos since they bring damage and with a team buffing behind them, they are just power incarnate. I guess the same could be said about Fire Armor (specifically your Fire/SS build!).

 

But what about in a pure, stand alone setting? I know this is mostly theory crafting!

Edited May 9 by Shadowstorm06

[Spaghetti Betty]

2 hours ago, Shadowstorm06 said:

But what about in a pure, stand alone setting? I know this is mostly theory crafting!

That's what makes judging things in a vacuum for HM difficult. Even in theory, you are going to have some kind of team backing you up.

 

But, if you wanted to compare your choices just purely from what might die the slowest in a solo scenario, I think I would rank them like this:

 

Rad

Dark

Stone

SR

Shield

 

The reason being that self sustainability is what keeps you alive in mobs above all else, thanks to them having increased Tohit and damage.

 

Rad is the undisputed king in this case thanks to having a 1k absorb shield that can refresh every 30 seconds. I guess the heal isn't that bad either!

 

Dark would be the next one down, IMO. Hardcapped RES and the best self heal in the game really do go far, and I consider rezzes to be a part of sustain.

 

Stone only lags behind a tad due to not having a burst heal at all, but the amount of armor and HP you get is nothing to shake a stick at.

 

SR and Shield fall last for pretty much the same reasons. Poor HP management. I think SR edges over slightly due to having a bit more DDR and can push it's resists harder.

 

 

Still, I do think you should play what you want, as HM is more about team comp and less about individually strong characters!

Edited May 9 by Spaghetti Betty

[Sovera]

5 hours ago, Shadowstorm06 said:

Good call out Sovera. I guess the only reason I didn’t mention Fire Armor/MA is because I run FA so much on my brute and have a Fire/SS parked right now. I could see Fire/MA being really strong as well.

 

I know Stone Armor has been a recent exploration for you. How did you feel Stone/MA compared to Fire/MA?

 

I solo a lot, so the damage aspect is important and MA's mediocre AoE was a bummer.

[One IV All]

On 5/9/2024 at 1:36 AM, Sovera said:

 

I solo a lot, so the damage aspect is important and MA's mediocre AoE was a bummer.

You like your Stone/MA more than your Fire/MA?

[Sovera]

6 minutes ago, One IV All said:

You like your Stone/MA more than your Fire/MA?

 

How did you get that from what I said? 😄

 

I *love* my Stone/Fire Melee who is the (near) immortal Tanker in my signature because it balances strong offense with strong AoE and ST. It replaced my Fire/MA as a solid damage dealer with good AoE because it also cruises through the game and the leveling without bothering with inspirations. Where Fire Melee needs some babysitting through the levels up to 30-40 and is a definite defeat-first-before-they-defeat-you.

 

Fire/MA is still strong because of a resist based armor being able to reach softcapped defense. The synergy between Dragon's Tail and Burn makes the AoE pretty good and the extra offense goes well with MA.

 

Realistically Fire/Fire is the most damaging of the trio (no, duh) but not for the obvious reasons. It is because it's one of the few builds that has triple PbAoEs with zero time wasted in repositioning on top of the obvious reasons.

 

 

This is all based on me being mostly a soloer these days. For someone who wants to play in teams and be absurdly tanky then sure, consider Stone/MA and be self-buffed at incarnate defense caps on top of having roughly 80% resists to most things AND be at HP cap.

[One IV All]

22 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

How did you get that from what I said? 😄

 

I *love* my Stone/Fire Melee who is the (near) immortal Tanker in my signature because it balances strong offense with strong AoE and ST. It replaced my Fire/MA as a solid damage dealer with good AoE because it also cruises through the game and the leveling without bothering with inspirations. Where Fire Melee needs some babysitting through the levels up to 30-40 and is a definite defeat-first-before-they-defeat-you.

 

Fire/MA is still strong because of a resist based armor being able to reach softcapped defense. The synergy between Dragon's Tail and Burn makes the AoE pretty good and the extra offense goes well with MA.

 

Realistically Fire/Fire is the most damaging of the trio (no, duh) but not for the obvious reasons. It is because it's one of the few builds that has triple PbAoEs with zero time wasted in repositioning on top of the obvious reasons.

 

 

This is all based on me being mostly a soloer these days. For someone who wants to play in teams and be absurdly tanky then sure, consider Stone/MA and be self-buffed at incarnate defense caps on top of having roughly 80% resists to most things AND be at HP cap.

Thanks for the info. I got it because that was OP’s question to you, comparing the two. So I was interested as well.

[Xandyr]

I've ran a Dark/MA tank. There's something to be said to have soft capped defenses and capped resists to all but Energy and Toxic. Fun build, and TOUGH.

Edited May 11 by Xandyr

[Story Archer]

On 5/8/2024 at 1:41 PM, Shadowstorm06 said:

Hi all!

Really torn on what primary to pair on my Martial Arts Tanker. My main goal is for endgame content. These are the ones I'm looking at:

 

Dark Armor: Brings great resists, best heal in the game and some defense of it’s own. MA should let it hit some soft caps for defense. Could see this being incredibly tough. Has a damage aura and Oppressive Gloom’s disorients can stack with some of MA’s moves.

Is there one you feel is toughest? One that is most well rounded? What is your favorite pairing with MA?

 

I run hot and cold on MA because Storm Kick is so good but Eagle's Claw really gets on my nerves for some reason, but MA/Dark has got to be the toughest tanker there is. Check out the build below just as an example, and keep in mind that this is with NO purple enhancements or Incarnates of any kind.

 

Tanker (Dark Armor - Martial Arts).mbd

 

 

You're basically soft-capped on defense, and your resistances to everything are high as a kite and that's not even counting the crazy self-heal that's up every 15-20 seconds or the fact that you've got one of the strongest Stealth options in the game.

 

Martial Arts lacking in AoE? Guess what, you've got Cross Punch and not one but two tricked out damage auras running simultaneously to compliment it. Just imagine what you could do if you actually put some influence into it... my 50+ version is over the soft-cap defensively on everything, maxes all resists except Energy and Toxic (70% each), has better recharge and deals even more damage.

 

 

Now, in the interest of full disclosure, while this was the toughest tanker I've ever played, the most fun I've had as a Tanker was probably my Rad/SS... going proc-heavy in all the wonderful ways that set opens up almost completely mitigates Rage Crash and you're melting baddies faster than you can track.

 

 

Edited May 14 by Story Archer

[Story Archer]

On 5/11/2024 at 6:13 PM, Xandyr said:

I've ran a Dark/MA tank. There's something to be said to have soft capped defenses and capped resists to all but Energy and Toxic. Fun build, and TOUGH.

 

...PLUS unbreakable stealth and one of the best self-heals in the game up every 20 seconds or so.

[One IV All]

On 5/11/2024 at 4:13 PM, Xandyr said:

I've ran a Dark/MA tank. There's something to be said to have soft capped defenses and capped resists to all but Energy and Toxic. Fun build, and TOUGH.

 

9 hours ago, Story Archer said:

 

...PLUS unbreakable stealth and one of the best self-heals in the game up every 20 seconds or so.

I’ve done Dark/Staff. I’m curious how Dark/MA would compare. Both are stupidly tough, as you both have noted.