Power Pools

Samyrmancer · June 26, 2019

I've recently gone through 3 respecs over power pools on my fire/kin and think it's time I get some advice. Perhaps I'm not the best player, but I don't find fire/kin to be the OMG solo machine it's supposed to be.

Power pools need to perform three functions for me: Movement, Defense and Offense. Please let me know what you think.

Flight: Hover is irreplaceable for me as it lets me maneuver through 3D rooms like caves and stairways without effort. Flight/Afterburner are also too convenient to miss.

Concealment: I tend to be impatient and run out in front of slow groups. Stealth keeps me from turning corners and getting blown up. Invisibility is also good to rejoin the group if I get separated.

Speed: I assume there are some builds where Hasten isn't mandatory, but if there is, I've never played it.

This leaves one pool and an epic to cover offense and defense:

Physical defense is covered because I six slot Hover and Concealment with Shield Wall and Unbreakable Guard, which I leave on all the time anyway. That just leaves Mez effects. What is the best defense against CC? Is there a CC resist toggle somewhere I don't know about? If not, do Rune of Protection and Indomitable Will both break you out of mez? Is one better than the other?

Offense needs to come from my pool because other than KD converted bonfire, I just stare at bad guys until the group comes. None of them give me mez defense and good damage though.

Psi just gives more control, albeit a different kind, but has Indomitable Will. No real offense though.
Ice gives me 2 AEs, 1 DD and an Oh Crap power. It would be my choice.
Fire gives me a power I can use to mule Luck of the Gambler in, an End Mod I don't need and the best AE cause it's fast.
Soul gives me an AE, a DAM buff, a mule for that LotG and an End Mod I still don't need
Mace gives me a DD, an AE, an awesome ACC and a shield. Redraw for the two damage spells is so long it ruins them though.
Primal DD scatters everything I worked to lock down but I hear Power Boost is really good.

and the others don't really give me enough to catch my eye.

So what are your go to power pools and what am I missing? What are good combos for mez protection and AE offense? Sorc/Ice? */Psi and don't worry about AE damage?

There is tons of information about primaries and secondaries but no one really talks about pools and that's 1/3rd of my powers.

I'd love to hear some opinions.

Erydanus · June 26, 2019

I don't find fire/kin to be the OMG solo machine it's supposed to be.

Fire/Kin is only an OMG solo machine when you can combine Hot Feet + Fire Imps with Fulcrum Shift. It is ONLY at that point it gets insane.

Primantis · June 27, 2019

Foreword; I have only made 1 fire/Kin and I purposely ran him on a modest budget. So keep that in mind.

I went with Earth Pool. For a variety of reasons. Rock Armor made capping S/L Def much easier. The AoE attack that it has provides Mag 2 Stun that can stack with your Flash Fire, and Earths Embrace is permable and makes you a lot Tankier. Fissure does not do as much damage as Fireball but its recharge is quite a bit lower, so it kind of equals out.

Don't forget to set up Containment for every spawn, Fire Cages themselves do reasonable damage as well thanks to FS.

While FIre/Kins are still very good. They have lost a lot of their luster to various farming brutes. Who are much more "Set and forget" as opposed to the very active play style of a good Fire/Kin. However, Fire/Kin has an advantage, being they are less reliant on farming only specific mobs.

Samyrmancer · June 27, 2019

@Erydanus - I understand why I'm not a solo god then because I dumped Hot Feet when I realized I have to walk to cast it. I really don't like to be that close to bad guys. I'm more of a floaty boom-boom type.

@Primantis - Thank you, actually. I'm going to see if I can do something with the earth power pool that looks kind of like my headless horseman concept.

Of course, it doesn't solve my mez desires, but I can at least look at it. I hadn't looked at stone that hard because I get so much defense out of hover and stealth.

I would probably be a much better player if I weren't kind of lazy. I like being able to float around a corner and pull back before the 30 mobs I ran into see me. I play to relax and maybe I sometimes take that a bit far.

Thanks for your comments!

I'm Dulahan. on Everlasting. Look me up sometime.

Erydanus · June 27, 2019

If I remember what people typically did it was something like:

smoke some enemies

Use flashfire to stun them, maybe??

run into the mob super fast - possibly superspeed but possibly just running on siphon speed. Super speed would have concealment built in though. Hot feet is running already.

drop fire cages, by now pets should have caught up, drop fulcrum shift

watch foes burn trapped in pillars of fire while literal imps tear into them at near damage cap.

Apply Cinders to maintain safe control if necessary.

Nic Mercy · June 27, 2019

Psi just gives more control, albeit a different kind, but has Indomitable Will. No real offense though.

Ice gives me 2 AEs, 1 DD and an Oh Crap power. It would be my choice.

Fire gives me a power I can use to mule Luck of the Gambler in, an End Mod I don't need and the best AE cause it's fast.

Soul gives me an AE, a DAM buff, a mule for that LotG and an End Mod I still don't need

Mace gives me a DD, an AE, an awesome ACC and a shield. Redraw for the two damage spells is so long it ruins them though.

Primal DD scatters everything I worked to lock down but I hear Power Boost is really good.

Psi - Indomitable Will can serve as a LotG mule and provide mez protection.

Ice - Ice Armor can act as a LotG mule. Ice Armor is probably the 2nd best defense toggle available to Controllers from APP's - all in all this is really good choice imo.

Fire - I'm not sure where you think you can put a LotG in this set. It has no defense powers, only a resistance toggle which cannot take the LotG set.

Soul - I'm not sure where you think you can put a LotG in this set. It has no defense powers, only a resistance toggle which cannot take the LotG set.

Mace - Has the best defense toggle available to Controllers from APP's. Serves as a LotG mule as well. Redrawon the attacks is a drag as you mentioned.

Primal - You can mitigate the scatter by slotting the Knockback to Knockdown IO from the Sudden Acceleration set in the attacks.

Chuckers · June 27, 2019

I have an Ill/Kin and I believe that once you get Siphon Speed on your kin, you don't need Hasten. I've never chosen it for my character and I've built her twice now.

Doc Ranger · June 27, 2019

I really don't like to be that close to bad guys. I'm more of a floaty boom-boom type.

Then you may need to scrap this toon. Fire/Kin, especially kinetics, was never meant to be a floaty boom boom type of set. For it to work gloriously you need to be in the middle of everything and going nuts. I would consider a set more inclined to be played from a distance.

Riverdusk · June 28, 2019

Mace gives me a DD, an AE, an awesome ACC and a shield. Redraw for the two damage spells is so long it ruins them though.

For me the DD in mace (poisonous Ray) isn't about the damage it is about the guaranteed -38.75% resistance debuff (when you put an achilles heel -res proc in there). At 3.5 PPM and Ray's 24 sec base recharge, it is 100% chance it procs. That it also does -20% defense and some energy and toxic damage on top of it is just extra. Definitely worth the redraw when you are fighting a tough boss or AV.

Pyriold · June 28, 2019

So what are your go to power pools and what am I missing? What are good combos for mez protection and AE offense? Sorc/Ice? */Psi and don't worry about AE damage?

Acrobatics from leaping pool has mez protection. But you need 2 powers prior to that...

Erydanus · June 28, 2019

I used to live for Acrobatics. Since we have Ninja Run now I'm not finding myself doing the combat jumping - superjump - acrobatics trifecta anymore.

Instead it's Mystic Flight - Arcane Bolt or Ward - Rune of Protection.

Machariel · June 28, 2019

Physical defense is covered because I six slot Hover and Concealment with Shield Wall and Unbreakable Guard

Sorry, you do what now?

(Unbreakable Guard is a resist set so it can't go into either Hover or Concealment but either way - you're getting like 7% defense out of those 2 powers and 10! added slots. . . )

star_fury_lives · June 28, 2019

Concealment: I tend to be impatient and run out in front of slow groups. Stealth keeps me from turning corners and getting blown up.

Just in case you're looking to save on power choices- you can slot a travel power with the IO that gives +stealth for a stealth equivalent to the power Stealth. If you just want a minor stealth to take the heat off, it's a good investment (mine is slotted into Sprint, so you don't even need to take a slot away from another power).

The IO also stacks with Stealth, so if you still want a full invis (like I have on my controller) I run Stealth and Sprint (with the IO slotted).

Redeyeknight · June 30, 2019

For hot feet to work, you dont need to be walking. Just use hover and be as close to the ground as possible. It will still get you dmg ticks. My fire kin had a non conventional build with bonfire, hover, ID, and the group +jump (name escapes me)... worked fine. In farms I used siphon speed amd hover to maneuver around tightly knotted groups and the jumpy power to close the gap on the groups that were far away.

Samyrmancer · July 3, 2019

Wow, I stepped away for a week to take a test and look at the replies. You guys are so helpful!

@starfurylives: I am very interested in the +stealth IO and am going to pursue that. I had forgotten about that option and it's awesome.

@Redeyeknight: I see what you are saying about Hover. Very good point. Can you still Spring Attack with hover? This was my thinking for an attack rotation:
Hot Feet > Fire Cages > Spring Attack into group > Cinders > Bonfire > lock down bosses still moving with Ring of Fire + Char.

@Erydanus: My smoke now draws agro because I slotted Control Core Genome as part of my Incarnate for the chance of +1 mag - or at least, I think that's what's doing it. I've been kinda thinking of letting smoke go and picking a different power. Also, I was looking at Spring Attack to teleport into the group of enemies. 8) I get what you are saying, however.

@Machariel: Please, please, please help me with defense on controllers. Is it worth the effort? I have the following:
- Hover: LotG recharge speed, end red, end red
- Fly: Blessing of the Zephyr: knockback reduction
- Combat Jumping: 6 Shield Wall
- Speed Boost: Winter's Gift slow resist
- Acrobatics: End red, end red
- Scorpion Shield: 6 Reactive Defenses

Am I wasting my time? Those enhancements are very expensive, I'm spending a lot of powers and slots for defense and I certainly don't want to waste my time and/or resources. I don't like getting one shot nuked into oblivion, which does happen sometimes when I toss a hold, and so was trying to get some defense. I'd gladly drop it if it's not recommended.

@Pyriold: Yeah, I saw that in Acrobatics. It hurt, but I've gone for Super Jump, Combat Jumping, Acrobatics and Spring Attack.

@Riverdusk: Hmmm, between you and @NicMercy you're making me think awful hard about Mace again. I've gone Fire for Fire Blast, Fire Ball, Fire Shield and Consume. I like consume over Transference because you don't need a target. Anyone know just how useful Focused Accuracy really is?

@IceWarden: I see what you're saying so I'm trying to modify my playstyle. I played CoX for a lot of years live but tended to lose interest in characters once I hit 50. This is the first character I'm trying to "max out."

@Chuckers: Really? That would save me a power, 2 slots and I wouldn't need to take the Speed Pool at all. That would be sweet! I'm going to try it.

There is a lot about CoX that I just never bothered to learn, back in the Live days. There is also a lot that I'm still not great at but I have fun and people enjoy grouping with me despite my being a dork. All of your comments are teaching me so much and I appreciate every one of them.

If I take everyone's advice, as I understand it, and relook at some of the ideas mentioned, I could do this:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962

http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Controller

Primary Power Set: Fire Control

Secondary Power Set: Kinetics

Power Pool: Leaping

Power Pool: Flight

Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:

Level 1: Ring of Fire

(A) Accuracy IO

Level 1: Transfusion

(A) Touch of the Nictus - Healing
(3) Touch of the Nictus - Heal/HitPoints/Regeneration/Recharge
(5) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Healing
(5) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Heal/HitPoints/Regeneration
(7) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge

Level 2: Char

(A) Lockdown - Accuracy/Hold
(7) Lockdown - Accuracy/Recharge
(9) Lockdown - Recharge/Hold
(9) Lockdown - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
(11) Lockdown - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
(11) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold

Level 4: Siphon Power

(A) Accuracy IO

Level 6: Fire Cages

(A) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage
(40) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime
(43) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
(46) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(50) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff

Level 8: Hot Feet

(A) Fury of the Gladiator - Accuracy/Damage
(13) Fury of the Gladiator - Damage/Recharge
(13) Fury of the Gladiator - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(15) Fury of the Gladiator - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
(15) Fury of the Gladiator - Accuracy/Damage/End/Rech
(17) Fury of the Gladiator - Chance for Res Debuff

Level 10: Jump Kick

(A) Accuracy IO

Level 12: Flashfire

(A) Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Confused/Hold/Immobilize/Sleep/Stun/Terrorized
(17) Will of the Controller - Confused/Hold/Immobilize/Sleep/Stun/Terrorized/Recharge
(19) Will of the Controller - Endurance/Recharge
(19) Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Confused/Hold/Immobilize/Sleep/Stun/Terrorized/Endurance
(21) Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Confused/Hold/Immobilize/Sleep/Stun/Terrorized/Endurance/Recharge
(21) Will of the Controller - Recharge/Chance for Psionic Damage

Level 14: Siphon Speed

(A) Accuracy IO

Level 16: Fly

(A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)

Level 18: Cinders

(A) Overpowering Presence - Accuracy/Confused/Hold/Immobilized/Sleep/Stunned/Terrorized
(23) Overpowering Presence - Confused/Hold/Immobilized/Sleep/Stunned/Terrorized/RechargeTime
(23) Overpowering Presence - Endurance/RechargeTime
(25) Overpowering Presence - Accuracy/Confused/Hold/Immobilized/Sleep/Stunned/Terrorized/Endurance
(25) Overpowering Presence - Accuracy/Confused/Hold/Immobilized/Sleep/Stunned/Terrorized/Endurance/RechargeTime
(27) Overpowering Presence - RechargeTime/Energy Font

Level 20: Speed Boost

(A) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%)

Level 22: Hover

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(40) Endurance Reduction IO
(40) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 24: Afterburner

(A) Freebird - +Stealth

Level 26: Bonfire

(A) Overwhelming Force - Accuracy/Damage
(27) Overwhelming Force - Endurance/Recharge
(29) Overwhelming Force - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(29) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(31) Overwhelming Force - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(31) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown

Level 28: Combat Jumping

(A) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance
(31) Shield Wall - Defense/Recharge
(34) Shield Wall - Endurance/Recharge
(37) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
(39) Shield Wall - Defense
(39) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

Level 30: Acrobatics

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(39) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 32: Fire Imps

(A) Sovereign Right - Accuracy/Damage
(33) Sovereign Right - Damage/Endurance
(33) Sovereign Right - Accuracy/Endurance
(33) Sovereign Right - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(34) Sovereign Right - Accuracy
(34) Sovereign Right - Resistance Bonus

Level 35: Transference

(A) Performance Shifter - EndMod
(36) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
(36) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
(36) Performance Shifter - Accuracy/Recharge
(37) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy
(37) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End

Level 38: Fulcrum Shift

(A) Accuracy IO

Level 41: Poisonous Ray

(A) Analyze Weakness - Defense Debuff
(42) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Defense Debuff
(42) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Recharge
(42) Analyze Weakness - Defense Debuff/Endurance/Recharge
(43) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
(43) Analyze Weakness - Chance for +ToHit

Level 44: Scorpion Shield

(A) Reactive Defenses - Defense
(45) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance
(45) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime
(45) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime
(46) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime
(46) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage

Level 47: Focused Accuracy

(A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
(48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
(48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
(48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
(50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
(50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up

Level 49: Spring Attack

(A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge

Level 2: Health

(A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery

Level 2: Stamina

(A) Endurance Modification IO
(3) Endurance Modification IO

------------

And I'm still open to dropping the defensive powers if they are ineffectual and I'd be better off getting something else. I don't know much about defensive powers but I do know that I'm very fragile and I'd like to do something about that if I can.

Machariel · July 3, 2019

@Machariel: Please, please, please help me with defense on controllers. Is it worth the effort? I have the following:

Hover: LotG recharge speed, end red, end red

Fly: Blessing of the Zephyr: knockback reduction

Combat Jumping: 6 Shield Wall

Speed Boost: Winter's Gift slow resist

Acrobatics: End red, end red

Scorpion Shield: 6 Reactive Defenses

Am I wasting my time? Those enhancements are very expensive, I'm spending a lot of powers and slots for defense and I certainly don't want to waste my time and/or resources. I don't like getting one shot nuked into oblivion, which does happen sometimes when I toss a hold, and so was trying to get some defense. I'd gladly drop it if it's not recommended.

Welcome back!

My general feeling about Control archetypes is that you should pick one type of defense to build for, and figure that everything else will be covered by your controls, your support abilities, or your AoE damage. If you live in Melee, build for Melee or Slashing/Lethal defense. If you spend most of your time at range, build for Ranged defense. Totally ignore any other form of Defense when you pick your IOs - if you're building for ranged, consider melee to be irrelevant, and vice versa.

As a /Kin, you'll spend most of your time in Melee, so I'd build for Melee or Slashing/Lethal defense and Recharge. But, building for Ranged defense will help you absorb the initial volley better. Probably both can work.

The low-hanging fruit for defense, in general, is things like the +3% defense IOs (Steadfast Protection, Gladiator's Armor), Scorpion Shield, Weave, Combat Jumping/Hover, roughly in that order. For Weave, Combat Jumping, and Hover, it's sometimes not even worth slotting them for defense, because their defense values are so low (2.25%), and you can better use those slots to get defense bonuses out of other sets.

@Riverdusk: Hmmm, between you and @NicMercy you're making me think awful hard about Mace again. I've gone Fire for Fire Blast, Fire Ball, Fire Shield and Consume. I like consume over Transference because you don't need a target.

Consume doesn't "need a target" in that you can activate the power at any time, but it 100% definitely needs to hit $targets if you want to get any endurance out of it. I definitely wouldn't take Consume if I had access to Transference.

Samyrmancer · July 3, 2019

Well, I tried a bunch of different permutations and I think I've followed your precepts. Please let me know if I'm in the ballpark. I have been pretty unhappy in the past when running more than 3 toggles. This puts me at running 3 with another as very situational. Here are my toggles:

Level 8: Running - Hot Feet

(A) Fury of the Gladiator - Accuracy/Damage
(11) Fury of the Gladiator - Accuracy/Damage/End/Rech
(13) Fury of the Gladiator - Damage/Recharge
(15) Fury of the Gladiator - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(15) Fury of the Gladiator - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
(27) Fury of the Gladiator - Chance for Res Debuff

Level 14: Not Running - Combat Jumping

(A) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%)

Level 16: Rarely Running - Stealth

(A) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
(17) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

Level 30: Rune of Protection

(A) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP
(40) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
(43) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance
(50) Impervious Skin - Status Resistance

Level 38: Running - Scorpion Shield

(A) Reactive Defenses - Defense
(39) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance
(39) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime
(39) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime
(40) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime
(40) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage

Level 41: Running - Focused Accuracy

[*] (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff

[*] (42) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge

[*] (42) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance

[*] (42) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance

[*] (43) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance

[*] (43) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up

So I'm running Scorpion Shield, Focused Accuracy and Hot Feet. Stealth and Rune of Protection are mules with functionality: I run Stealth only when I want to be fully invisible. Rune of Protection is a click mez breaker/mez defense for 90 sec.

Am I covering the bases you indicated?

Chuckers · July 3, 2019

[

@Chuckers: Really? That would save me a power, 2 slots and I wouldn't need to take the Speed Pool at all. That would be sweet! I'm going to try it.

Do remember that siphon speed is a mob centric power.. it does miss on occasion, even with an acc in there... but not enough to really hinder my playstyle.

Samyrmancer · July 4, 2019

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