Trickshooter's Force Shield Powerset Suggestion!

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Soooo . . . Force Shield.  I'd have to see the end numbers after a typical Mids build, but on first glance it seems like it will be easy to soft-cap and still have a decent amount of resist, as well as absorb, and a team-wide hibernate that everyone can still use all attacks and powers.  Sounds OP at first glance, but again I'd need to flesh out a full build with IOs to see.  I was also hoping you had some deflection damage in there, which is something I'd like to see in an armor set some day.

 

PS. - Debate the topic, not each other and . . . 

Edited Tuesday at 02:22 AM by GM_GooglyMoogly

[Trickshooter]

30 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

Soooo . . . Force Shield.  I'd have to see the end numbers after a typical Mids build, but on first glance it seems like it will be easy to soft-cap and still have a decent amount of resist, as well as absorb, and a team-wide hibernate that everyone can still use all attacks and powers.  Sounds OP at first glance, but again I'd need to flesh out a full build with IOs to see.  I was also hoping you had some deflection damage in there, which is something I'd like to see in an armor set some day.

 

PS. - Debate the topic, not each other and . . . 

Ice would still probably be easier to soft cap, except to Fire and Cold damage, I believe. If I knew how to add things to Mids, I probably would do it for every suggestion I made lol

 

Overall, it should have a little more defense than Shield (I think less than 1%, but I’d have to double check, and that’s without Density Field and Shield with Phalanx Fighting but with no teammates nearby ), but also a little less resistance.

 

The team wide Hibernate is probably my biggest question of if it would be too good, but I think it fits the theme well and at a 4 minute recharge to 30 seconds max of effect, I think it wouldn’t be that exploitable. I need to look up some of the math tomorrow, I’m in bed right now, but I tried to make sure it was still not better than the Empathy auras.

 

edit: What did you mean by deflection damage? Like reflected damage?

Edited Tuesday at 02:44 AM by Trickshooter

[Purrfekshawn]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:17 PM, FupDup said:

My opinion on a Forcefield Armor is that Energy Aura already fills a very similar theme. Just look at the power names it has: Dampening Field, Kinetic Shield, Power Shield...The only thing missing is alternate FX for bubbles. Add that option and we've got Forcefield Armor at home. 

 

Also l have no idea why Energy Aura is still NOT proliferated to the tanks. l can understand why Super Strength becomes OP on scrappers (stacked Rage), but from my experience Energy Aura would become somewhat mediocre, even weaker powerset for Tanks, very much compared to Ice Armor powerset.

 

l can only understand that devs just didn't get their hands onto that. l hope it will be fixed at some point (just copypasting from brute to Tanker Energy Aura edition would do the trick).

[Trickshooter]

26 minutes ago, Purrfekshawn said:

 

Also l have no idea why Energy Aura is still NOT proliferated to the tanks. l can understand why Super Strength becomes OP on scrappers (stacked Rage), but from my experience Energy Aura would become somewhat mediocre, even weaker powerset for Tanks, very much compared to Ice Armor powerset.

 

l can only understand that devs just didn't get their hands onto that. l hope it will be fixed at some point (just copypasting from brute to Tanker Energy Aura edition would do the trick).

 

Tankers don't have Energy Aura because if you just copy the Brute version to them, they'd be softcapped to 5 of the 8 damage types on just SOs. Super Reflexes is nearly there itself, but all it has is Defense; Energy has defense, plus an end drain/gain, a heal that also reduces end cost, consistent damage resistance and stealth. It will take some tweaking to bring the defense numbers down without compromising the survivability of the set.

[Purrfekshawn]

3 minutes ago, Trickshooter said:

 

Tankers don't have Energy Aura because if you just copy the Brute version to them, they'd be softcapped to 5 of the 8 damage types on just SOs. Super Reflexes is nearly there itself, but all it has is Defense; Energy has defense, plus an end drain/gain, a heal that also reduces end cost, consistent damage resistance and stealth. It will take some tweaking to bring the defense numbers down without compromising the survivability of the set.

 

But Super Reflexes have scaling +RESISTANCE to all damages when player's health descends up to almost +90% resistance to all damage types. EnA has no such things, Resistance is flat besides Reactive Defenses unique if a player uses it in the build. Also Super Reflexes have +95% Defense Debuff resistance, while Energy Aura only 51.9%.

 

That's all miscalculations, just tell them! No tweaks required. Hard content for EnA would still be hard because bosses have incarnate +18.75% ToHit as well as up to +30% ToHit from stars, which may completely pierce through Energy Aura defenses.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

10 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

edit: What did you mean by deflection damage? Like reflected damage?

 

Yes, damage done to you gets reflected back to enemy, like bullets ricocheting.  However, that also brings up an interesting possibility -- what if you had a tanker power that acted like MM bodyguard, but for your teammates.  Damage directed at team gets deflected back to that tank.  Sorry, just riffing off your ideas.

[Trickshooter]

3 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

 

Yes, damage done to you gets reflected back to enemy, like bullets ricocheting.  However, that also brings up an interesting possibility -- what if you had a tanker power that acted like MM bodyguard, but for your teammates.  Damage directed at team gets deflected back to that tank.  Sorry, just riffing off your ideas.

 

I'd love for the set to do deflected damage in that sense, but I don't know if the tech is there for it to be possible. If it was possible to reduce incoming damage by making some of it reflect back, I'd probably drop most damage resistance from the set and let that act as it's 'resistance'.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Maybe it could be an aura that reduces incoming damage and reflects it back.  We already have ones that do that, though.  To give it flavor, it should reflect back the damage directed at the tank.

 

Fight fire with fire!  Ice with Ice!

[Trickshooter]

Alright, I had to do this for Brutes because Tankers don't have Energy Aura, but here is a comparison between Force Shield and the other Typed Defense sets. This is with their foe-based buffing powers maxed (Density Field, Energy Absorption, Energy Drain, Invincibility), level 50, no slotting. Just base values of all their Def/Res powers added up.

 

 

Looking at it here, I think the Defense values are mostly appropriate, I would probably consider bringing down Psionic and Toxic defenses in the shields down to half their current value, so that would bring their new total for Psi/Toxic Defense down to 8.813%. If I did that, I would at least bump up the Toxic resistance 18.75%. That would give it more parity with the FF support set that only has some Psi/Toxic Defense in Dispersion Bubble, and then Toxic Resistance in one of the shields.

 

The lower defense debuff resistance is intentional, since this set as designed has more consistent damage type coverage.

[Trickshooter]

25 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

Maybe it could be an aura that reduces incoming damage and reflects it back.  We already have ones that do that, though.

 

This is completely sincere, but we do?? Maybe it's still too early in the morning for me, but I'm blanking on an example.

[CrusaderDroid]

Pretty sure we don't and never will. Thorns is generally a bad mechanic in pretty much every game - playerside it's either a write-off or completely cracked, while enemyside it starts at irritating and goes up to hard-counter. The best uses of it have been limited windows in PvP environments, e.g. Rammus in League of Legends.

 

Also, a Thorns power is totally getting used for farming no matter how good/bad it is. The devs don't really like farming - I don't like it either but they will kill sets just to keep it down, which is a little scary.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

I mean in the sense that we have damage auras (you can pretend it's reflected back) and we have -dam Auras.  So both those things have been done.  Genetic Contamination does both damage DoTs and -Dam.  I forget if there are others.

[Purrfekshawn]

2 hours ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

I mean in the sense that we have damage auras (you can pretend it's reflected back) and we have -dam Auras.  So both those things have been done.  Genetic Contamination does both damage DoTs and -Dam.  I forget if there are others.

 

Can l suggest another mechanic - an aura of a Tank player that applies a "Temporary Power" to its target (similar to "Delayed" Time Crawl's debuff). The temporary power would add a PROC to these enemies' all attacks, that would make their own power damage themselves (conversely to normal PROC's that damage their targets). l don't know but maybe this might be made work so the PROC occurs only on damaging the Tank...

 

Think more of not Bio Armor's Genetic Contamination power, but Bio Armor's Offensive Adaptation power.

 

Edited Tuesday at 04:14 PM by Purrfekshawn

[megaericzero]

5 hours ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

what if you had a tanker power that acted like MM bodyguard, but for your teammates.  Damage directed at team gets deflected back to that tank.

A power effect that unique could be the inherent for an archetype unto itself. So it doesn't step on Tankers' toes, maybe a single-target bodyguard to personally protect someone? Call it... like... Defender... Sentinel... Guardian?

[PeregrineFalcon]

6 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

A power effect that unique could be the inherent for an archetype unto itself. So it doesn't step on Tankers' toes, maybe a single-target bodyguard to personally protect someone? Call it... like... Defender... Sentinel... Guardian?

In WoW and SWTOR, tanks have an ability called Guard. You can place Guard on another player/NPC. Guard gives the person it's placed on some damage resistance, they draw less aggro, and some of their incoming damage hits the tank instead.

 

If the Homecoming devs were to give the Tanker AoE buff to Brutes and then give Tankers a Guard ability it would accomplish three things. First, it would fix Brutes without making Scrappers obsolete. Second, it would allow Tankers to make use of the extra survivability that is generally just wasted in normal content. Third, it would fix the problem of Tanks damage output making many people feel that Brutes are obsolete.

[Enamel_32]

Neat! Some general notes:

• This could be an easy FX recycling power set, making it easier to get into the game. There's also some alternate bubble-style FX you could shoehorn in.
• What does this look like for stalkers?
• From a game mechanic point of view, it's not the world's most interesting offering, but that's fitting since it's emulating an issue 0 power set. For a new power set these days, I think people will ask: what makes it stand out?
  • Maybe the stand-out mechanic IS providing both positional and typed (except psi) defenses? Not sure here.
• There's a lot of debuff resistance for being a defensive set. Mostly they just resist defense debuffs and sometimes -speed/-recharge and the other debuffs are avoided thanks to the defense.
• Purrfekshawn has opened an interesting door with the idea of incorporating procs. I think adding a chance for knockdown and smashing damage could add some fun repulsion flavor to the set.
• I think there's an opportunity to add or swap in a location-based bubble power, similar to Faraday Cage.

 

Specific powers:

• Density Field: I would maybe consider a different or much weaker debuff effect, as the -recharge is ~3x stronger than the one in Entropic Aura, for example, and that doesn't also reduce enemy movement speed.
• Kinetic Barrier, Frictionless: Nothing wrong, but these are places where the set could be made more distinct from others.
• Force Recoil: Big crowd control. I don't think I would pick this power unless I was playing a capital T tanker to be honest. I do think it'd end up looking hilarious, since most knockdown animations put enemies on their backs, and they're simultaneously being pulled toward their target.
• Shield Compaction: I have a suspicion that the resistance component pushes this into Way Strong territory, but a click absorb makes a lot of sense to me for a defensive set, particularly at lower levels where you're getting hit more. Maybe it also makes sense to shift a portion of the defense debuff resistance from the other powers into this one?
• Force Sanctuary: the regeneration feels out of place here; it reads like an Empathy power to me. With the initial suggested numbers it's exactly as potent as Regeneration Aura and Regeneration Aura combined, though it differs in that follows the player around vs. being a one time click, and has a shorter duration and radius of effect.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 12:49 AM by Enamel_32

[biostem]

It'd be interesting if this set utilized the absorb mechanic, with certain powers allowing you to target allies, with the catch being that you can only replenish X amount of absorb points per "tic", so spreading it among too many allies thins out the protection.  Perhaps this set could have a "Build Up"-like power that replenishes a large amount of said absorption points.  It'd also be interesting if your status protection was tied to said shield(s) being intact - so them getting depleted leaves you vulnerable.  Perhaps have a passive that grants a small amount of base status protection, and perhaps also increases the base rate this absorption is replenished... 

Edited Wednesday at 02:56 AM by biostem

[Trickshooter]

14 hours ago, Enamel_32 said:

What does this look like for stalkers?

 

I think it would just drop Density Field for Hide, as they already offer similar defense values. I don't see an issue with any other power, really. Maybe Force Recoil, but it's fun and I wouldn't want to keep that from Stalkers!

 

14 hours ago, Enamel_32 said:

From a game mechanic point of view, it's not the world's most interesting offering, but that's fitting since it's emulating an issue 0 power set. For a new power set these days, I think people will ask: what makes it stand out?

 

My idea was that what made it different was that it covered all damage types and most debuffs for a bit of simplicity and consistency, but at the cost a true heal. I think I might play around with it a bit more, probably do as others suggested and combine 2 of the shields and then add in another team-type power. I think I like the idea of it being another support armor powerset, kinda like Shield.

 

14 hours ago, Enamel_32 said:

There's a lot of debuff resistance for being a defensive set. Mostly they just resist defense debuffs and sometimes -speed/-recharge and the other debuffs are avoided thanks to the defense.

 

The only debuff resistance I added that other sets don't already get (I think) is ToHit resistance. The next comparable set is Invulnerability, I think? Gets defense debuff, end/recovery debuff, and slow/rech debuff resistance. My only concern is that some of the resistances may be too high for a melee armor set. Might knock a couple down to half.

 

14 hours ago, Enamel_32 said:

Density Field: I would maybe consider a different or much weaker debuff effect, as the -recharge is ~3x stronger than the one in Entropic Aura, for example, and that doesn't also reduce enemy movement speed.

 

I forgot to use a modifier for those, so that's the base value. 😅 For a Tanker, it would actually be -64% Speed and -40% Recharge (because their Melee Slow mod is 0.8). That puts them just higher than Chilling Embrace on a Tanker, but with +Def instead of -Damage. It might still be too strong, as I decided those values before I decided to add +Def to the effect. I might revert it somewhat to an earlier version where Density Field was only a debuff, and Frictionless had a passive +Def.

 

14 hours ago, Enamel_32 said:

Force Recoil: Big crowd control. I don't think I would pick this power unless I was playing a capital T tanker to be honest. I do think it'd end up looking hilarious, since most knockdown animations put enemies on their backs, and they're simultaneously being pulled toward their target.

 

It's fun though, and that's the real goal!

 

14 hours ago, Enamel_32 said:

Shield Compaction: I have a suspicion that the resistance component pushes this into Way Strong territory, but a click absorb makes a lot of sense to me for a defensive set, particularly at lower levels where you're getting hit more. Maybe it also makes sense to shift a portion of the defense debuff resistance from the other powers into this one?

 

I don't think it's Way Strong, the absorb amount is standard with the other sets that get Absorb (Rad and Bio), I think. They get +Regen instead of +Resistance, though. Overall, I think the set has a little too much damage resistance though, and if I update it I will probably drop it down to scale 1.0 (so 10% for Tanks, 7.5 for everyone else).

 

14 hours ago, Enamel_32 said:

Force Sanctuary: the regeneration feels out of place here; it reads like an Empathy power to me. With the initial suggested numbers it's exactly as potent as Regeneration Aura and Regeneration Aura combined, though it differs in that follows the player around vs. being a one time click, and has a shorter duration and radius of effect.

 

The uptime for Force Sanctuary and the Empathy auras is pretty close, the benefits for the auras being the larger AoE and longer duration, though. But I have been thinking about this and haven't decided how to change the power. I feel it needs some kind of penalty to be strong enough to be worth using. Maybe either the Force Shield user can't affect enemies while it's on (not ideal cause without attacking you lose threat), or that it also contains a Repel so enemies will sometimes be just out of range for most of your melee attacks, or that the user themselves suffers from decreased speed, recharge and damage, so that the penalty is just that it's not optimal, but you can still attack and taunt and maintain threat.

[Trickshooter]

14 hours ago, biostem said:

It'd be interesting if this set utilized the absorb mechanic, with certain powers allowing you to target allies, with the catch being that you can only replenish X amount of absorb points per "tic", so spreading it among too many allies thins out the protection.  Perhaps this set could have a "Build Up"-like power that replenishes a large amount of said absorption points.  It'd also be interesting if your status protection was tied to said shield(s) being intact - so them getting depleted leaves you vulnerable.  Perhaps have a passive that grants a small amount of base status protection, and perhaps also increases the base rate this absorption is replenished... 

 

Hmmm... not sure many melee players would like their status protection tied to teammates lol but it is an interesting idea. Maybe to simplify, what if Shield Compaction was a small AoE and you could give other players some of the Absorption if you're close enough together, but you get reduced Absorb for each teammate you help out this way, BUT maybe you also get slightly higher damage resistances or even +Regen for each teammate at the same time. So you trade off the protection of Absorb, but get a bonus that still reduces incoming damage.