All stealth powers should have a no fade option

[Random Axis]

My characters with stealth should be able to show off their costumes too rather than just a translucent outline. 

 

I'm easily able to tell when my stealth kicks in on the combat attributes window and by the big green "Hidden" under active power icons, so the fade isn't necessary for gameplay.

 

EDIT: based on the suggestions by the fine people in the thread, I think a good compromise is that No Fade should add a marker (over my head maybe?) so allies know I'm hiding, so they know not to charge in after me.

Edited August 4 by Random Axis
Additional thoughts

[Greycat]

On 6/15/2024 at 3:31 AM, Random Axis said:

 so the fade isn't necessary for gameplay.

 

Eh... YOU might be able to tell.

 

What about the person on your team who just sees you running off into the enemies and decides to follow, when you're off to stealth an objective? Tends to especially be a recurring issue with support characters from what I've seen with the stuff that already does it.

 

Not arguing against the request, just this *comment.* Frankly anyone taking this option should have some visible indicator *for the rest of the team* to see they're stealthed - and no, the little icons next to the name in the team window aren't enough. It's very easy for just one to get lost in the mess there. Something over their head indicating "stealthed."

[Rudra]

This is going to get several thumbs down, but....

 

When you are sneaking, the last thing you should want to be doing is 'showing off your costume'. Even to teammates.  Stealth isn't about having eye catching looks for your friends, acquaintances, and enemies to be oohing and awing over. When you want others to marvel and be amazed at your costume design? Stop being sneaky. When you want to be sneaky, remember that you are trying to not be seen.

[Triumphant]

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

This is going to get several thumbs down, but....

 

When you are sneaking, the last thing you should want to be doing is 'showing off your costume'. Even to teammates.  Stealth isn't about having eye catching looks for your friends, acquaintances, and enemies to be oohing and awing over. When you want others to marvel and be amazed at your costume design? Stop being sneaky. When you want to be sneaky, remember that you are trying to not be seen.

 

It's not about becoming translucent, either.  That would be the intangibility or phasing power.  When Batman sneaks, when spiderman sneaks, when Black Panther sneaks, there is no "special effect".  They just hide and move quietly.

 

Some of us would like the option for no effect while sneaking, just like the examples I provided above.  That's all.

 

The rest of you can still become translucent whenever you sneak around (for whatever oddball reason you'd like to make up for that happening).

[Rudra]

45 minutes ago, Triumphant said:

 

It's not about becoming translucent, either.  That would be the intangibility or phasing power.  When Batman sneaks, when spiderman sneaks, when Black Panther sneaks, there is no "special effect".  They just hide and move quietly.

 

Some of us would like the option for no effect while sneaking, just like the examples I provided above.  That's all.

 

The rest of you can still become translucent whenever you sneak around (for whatever oddball reason you'd like to make up for that happening).

Sure, but when they sneak, they are sticking to the shadows, they are crouching behind obstacles, and they are not walking down wide, empty hallways with nowhere to hide under the watchful eyes of more than a dozen foes or walking up to said foes and making faces at them in their face. (Edit: And they still aren't showing off their costumes. They are still trying to avoid being seen. So if their allies don't know where they are, they won't be able to look at their costumes and go "Hey, is that a new buckle? Nice!".) Whereas we don't have 1st person shooter/RPG stealth mechanics so we can just walk down those nice wide, empty hallways full of enemies and have nice little chats with each other without whispering while standing directly in front of our enemies and emoting making faces or whatever at them without them ever seeing our not invisible keisters.

 

Edit again: And for that matter, as @Greycat asked, what will tell the rest of your team that you are indeed hidden and sneaking so they don't just follow after you and cause you to have to fight everything anyway?

 

Edited June 16 by Rudra

[Triumphant]

44 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Sure, but when they sneak, they are sticking to the shadows, they are crouching behind obstacles, and they are not walking down wide, empty hallways with nowhere to hide under the watchful eyes of more than a dozen foes or walking up to said foes and making faces at them in their face. (Edit: And they still aren't showing off their costumes. They are still trying to avoid being seen. So if their allies don't know where they are, they won't be able to look at their costumes and go "Hey, is that a new buckle? Nice!".) Whereas we don't have 1st person shooter/RPG stealth mechanics so we can just walk down those nice wide, empty hallways full of enemies and have nice little chats with each other without whispering while standing directly in front of our enemies and emoting making faces or whatever at them without them ever seeing our not invisible keisters.

 

Edit again: And for that matter, as @Greycat asked, what will tell the rest of your team that you are indeed hidden and sneaking so they don't just follow after you and cause you to have to fight everything anyway?

 

My answer to the first bit would be:  Then don't make the effect translucent.  Make it an effect that actually simulates what you're doing (i.e. sneaking).  If that can't be done, then allow me to turn off effects for the power.  My way gives everyone the choice of whether or not to use the bad effect that doesn't actually represent what it's supposed to represent.  Leaving the power as it is presently, forces me to use this clumsy representation of stealth when I would rather just enjoy looking at all the details of my costume. 

I think part of the problem here is you are trying to advocate for the game to be simulationist when, really, it just does a very bad job of doing that.  Hand-wringing over accurate visual representation of stealth effects is a bit silly, when the mobs don't react at all when you are standing 25 feet away, in direct line of sight, in a well-lighted area, blowing up another group of mobs with grenades, energy blasts, and other apocalyptically loud, flashy effects.  I don't care about simulationism that much myself (I only made my argument about the translucency effect being a poor representation of stealth because you are arguing that it be locked in this way, because it is needed for that purpose.  I'm really just interested in the players individual freedom to choose what effects to activate for their personal characters power sets.  What you do with your own character is your business.  Keep all your effects turned on.  Go crazy.  It's none of my business- just like what I choose for my own costume and visual powerset effects is none of your business).

 

As to the postscript in your edit:  When has the visual cue from activating your stealth power ever caused anyone on a team to follow the team leader in any respect?  If you mostly play with PUGs, you can kiss that fantasy goodbye, regardless of what visual effects are active on your powerset.  If you play with a group of buddies that you know and they are tuned into your playstyle, then you probably don't need that kind of help (but again, if you do- by all means, choose to retain the power effect.  I don't want to force you to do anything.  I just want the freedom to make a different choice).

[Haijinx]

This thread will not end well.

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, Triumphant said:

My answer to the first bit would be:  Then don't make the effect translucent.  Make it an effect that actually simulates what you're doing (i.e. sneaking).  If that can't be done, then allow me to turn off effects for the power.  My way gives everyone the choice of whether or not to use the bad effect that doesn't actually represent what it's supposed to represent.  Leaving the power as it is presently, forces me to use this clumsy representation of stealth when I would rather just enjoy looking at all the details of my costume. 

I think part of the problem here is you are trying to advocate for the game to be simulationist when, really, it just does a very bad job of doing that.  Hand-wringing over accurate visual representation of stealth effects is a bit silly, when the mobs don't react at all when you are standing 25 feet away, in direct line of sight, in a well-lighted area, blowing up another group of mobs with grenades, energy blasts, and other apocalyptically loud, flashy effects.  I don't care about simulationism that much myself (I only made my argument about the translucency effect being a poor representation of stealth because you are arguing that it be locked in this way, because it is needed for that purpose.  I'm really just interested in the players individual freedom to choose what effects to activate for their personal characters power sets.  What you do with your own character is your business.  Keep all your effects turned on.  Go crazy.  It's none of my business- just like what I choose for my own costume and visual powerset effects is none of your business).

 

As to the postscript in your edit:  When has the visual cue from activating your stealth power ever caused anyone on a team to follow the team leader in any respect?  If you mostly play with PUGs, you can kiss that fantasy goodbye, regardless of what visual effects are active on your powerset.  If you play with a group of buddies that you know and they are tuned into your playstyle, then you probably don't need that kind of help (but again, if you do- by all means, choose to retain the power effect.  I don't want to force you to do anything.  I just want the freedom to make a different choice).

We're just going to go in circles. I'll just say I agree to disagree and bow out.

[Triumphant]

Sure.  That's fair enough.

[Greycat]

6 hours ago, Triumphant said:

As to the postscript in your edit:  When has the visual cue from activating your stealth power ever caused anyone on a team to follow the team leader in any respect?  If you mostly play with PUGs, you can kiss that fantasy goodbye, regardless of what visual effects are active on your powerset.

 

Fairly frequently, at least as much as running across stealthable missions go. Even if it's simply *them* not seeing me, or the person stealthing, go anywhere... since they're invisible. 😉  Flip side being I *have* seen people rush after someone with less transparent stealth and flat out say "I didn't know they were stealthing."

 

Thus the "visual indicator." Wouldn't affect your costume at all, easier to see than trying to pick out a tiny power icon in a string of them in a team window.

 

Granted, some people will do it if you discuss stealthing th emission at the start of a TF, mention it before going in and when inside the mission, but I find that to not be quite so frequent.

[Triumphant]

Buddy, all I can say to that, is that your experience and my experience on this particular thing are diametric opposites.  🤷‍♂️

[Shin Magmus]

Yes OP, Yes.  More customization options is literally just always better.  2 Options are better than 1.  Apes together strong.

[Riverdusk]

I'm all for this as an Option.  It also comes down to accessibility as some people have trouble keeping track of their own character if it becomes too translucent. 

 

As to it confusing other players, we already have a power that causes that kind of confusion that has been unaddressed forever.  Controller's Dark Affinity Fade power.  A power that gives the entire team (whether they like it or not) a 'fake stealth' effect that gives no actual stealth.  I've seen people hit with that and run into a mob thinking they were invisible.  Surprise. 

 

I'd say players following other stealthed characters when they themselves don't have a stealth power is much less an issue.  That is just a case of knowing your own powers.

[Seed22]

20 hours ago, Haijinx said:

This thread will not end well.

Having just seen the kheld one and how folks can’t understand the word “options” yeah no this will devolve into brainrot that’ll make me hate reading the forums even more.

 

I’m here for it though. Let the litany of brainrot commence

Edited June 17 by Seed22

[Enamel_32]

People RP all sort of stuff and... just let 'em? For instance there's nothing saying that an illusion or psychic-based form of stealth couldn't exist entirely in an NPC's mind. Stealth doesn't have to equate to transparency; and I believe a good chunk of the powers in question have other tells like particle effects and sounds when activated. I would be 100% on board if there is an identifiable alternative to it.

 

The weird ones to me are group stealth. I think that's a case where the affected player is not always the one using the power, and they should know when they are under the effects of it. I think that can still be addressed without transparency, but it's worth calling out.

Edited June 17 by Enamel_32

[JasperStone]

An option you have to turn on .... sure

[Jack Spanky]

It's always fascinating when someone asks for a visual effects option to express their concept of a power effect and other(s) pipe up with "no actually, you shouldn't be able to express your power concept because of MY power concept." Even if this thread ultimately has to be closed it shouldn't be deleted, it has significant anthropological value.

[Rudra]

33 minutes ago, Jack Spanky said:

It's always fascinating when someone asks for a visual effects option to express their concept of a power effect and other(s) pipe up with "no actually, you shouldn't be able to express your power concept because of MY power concept." Even if this thread ultimately has to be closed it shouldn't be deleted, it has significant anthropological value.

It's not and never was a question about power concepts. Even the sneakiest character can already show off their costume whenever they want.

[Jack Spanky]

You're right, I apologize for mischaracterizing your position.

 

You were actually telling someone how they should be approaching gameplay epistemologically, what is even a valid way to consider playing -- a far more fundamental and arrogant form of game policing.